Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[WIP]

How would Judas have "come back" to Jesus, given His arrest and crucifixion? Everyone, including the 11 disciples, considered Him dead.

This sounds like a play on words. Somehow I don't think "come back to Jesus" means in the physical sense. If it does, then it would seem we are all doomed without hope.

 

[smaller]

Children of the devil are men who are influenced by the devil.

Children of the devil are devils. What you see in the above is a classic mixing of the parties, not seeing two entirely different parties. Jesus didn't come to convert "children of the devil" into "children of God in Christ." Nowhere do we see that kind of "conversion" postured in the N.T.

Here is the picture of unsaved mankind: Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2. In every citing we see the person/people and the actions of an unseen adversary, an entirely different entity than the person. The principle is entirely consistent with Jesus statement of fact in Mark 4:15 and the other seed accounts.

If anything else, we'd be possessed and we're not, we're influenced.
I have a question for you Smaller: Is satan omnipresent? The Holy Spirit can be everywhere at the same time. Can satan?

Here is "how" God made mankind:

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Follow that fact to the logical conclusion, that the disobedience "everyone" is bound to is not "everyone." Here is the source of disobedience:

Eph. 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

What we see in the above 2 citings, of many likewise, is that disobedience is a spirit, specifically the prince of the power of the air, which is a term for our adversary, Satan. If we couple Mark 4:4 with Jesus' exposure/disclosure of Mark 4:4 in Mark 4:15 it's entirely obvious.

Acts 26:18 and 2 Cor. 4:4 show an essentially consist fact to the above. There is a captor/captive relationship with Satan being the captor and unsaved man being the captive. Two entirely different parties.

And no, Satan is not "omnipresent." What "everyone" is bound to, really at the moment of conception is a component of a spiritual adversary. This principle for example was 'hidden' in the O.T. thusly:

Psalm 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

The leviathan is a similitude term for Satan. "Thou" in the above is God. The people inhabiting the wilderness is "everyone" on earth who has ever lived, with the exception of God in Christ, Himself. It's the same principle as all of the scripture above. Everyone got their personal little slice of the spirit of disobedience at the moment of conception, FROM GOD.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

The natural man, the first man, does not know his condition under that spirit of disobedience, but is a slave, a captive. The second man, knowing his condition, rules OVER that same spirit of disobedience, in Dominion. This man, the second man, is CHOSEN by God to SEE and to DOMINATE and to receive Gods Mercy in Christ.

I believe we all know about unseen entities.

Here's the deal. Knowing the above, we should not be led to see only ourselves. It is the working of the spirit of disobedience to hide it's working, and to "obfuscate" and "mix" the parties or to say to the BLIND, it's just YOU. And this latter state is actually were most believers are still stuck on the subject matter. They don't recognize that our own sin is of the spirit of disobedience, the devil. 1 John 3:8. It's just a simple form of spiritual blindness, yes, upon believers in denial of the fact. And nothing more than that. A working of that other spirit that is NOT the believer.

You know who are worst enemies are? The ones we cannot see. The one, or ones, that prowl the earth, seeking whom they will devour, or he will devour. Why is he roaming the earth? Because he cannot be everyplace at once, like the Holy Spirit can. So we could be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but not by satan. And if so, we are possessed.

People who mix Hollywood movie depictions of Satan or equate the working of the spirit of disobedience to POSSESSION really don't have a clue about the subject matter from the scriptures. It's NOT possession. The fulcrum point of this working of the spirit of disobedience is EVIL THOUGHTS. That's as far as that sight needs to go. To say "evil thoughts" are possession is utter nonsense. It is merely the bumblings of that spirit of disobedience, internally. Can these thoughts get out of hand? Of course. Even the UNSAVED have to "deal with" and "engage" these same thoughts. They just don't perceive them as a working of that spirit of disobedience, and think it's "just themselves" in classic, typical captive/slave fashion.

And Judas was, like all the other Apostles who FORSOOK Jesus, the same CAPTIVE SLAVE, as was Peter, when he denied Jesus. God knows what the spirit of disobedience is going to do ahead of time.

I doubt anyone here resists the fact that an adverse spirit is at work, always ready to tempt us and happy to see us fail, when we fail, many times, every day.

I doubt there is more than a small handful of believers at this board that have a functional scriptural understanding of this matter, and apply it personally, with any form of accuracy or the deployment of scriptural integrity. It's NOT an easy thing to come to grips with and it's not meant to be. We have to be "given" the Spiritual Fruit of HONESTY to even be able to see it in the scriptures. Otherwise it's a NO GO from God Himself, not allowing that person to see. And there really isn't a thing the person can do about it.

I cannot speak for all of orthodoxy, but one church believes that God is the Father of everyone because He created everyone: However, not everyone is God's son, as not everyone is saved. God does love everyone, He loves humanity. He wishes that all men be saved,
1 Timothy 2:3-4
In this way Orthodoxy is correct.

And I agree with orthodoxy on that point.

When witnessing it's good to tell people that God loved them enough to make a way of salvation for them. And then tell them why they must be saved since they are on the road to damnation, and that from birth.

We, as disciples, should always be led to "turn everyone" from the internal workings of the spirit of disobedience. That is part of the witness role, to witness to them of their internal captivity, and to TURN THEM to God in Christ in Dominion.

Are you saying I don't have a clear line between people and devils? I leave nothing out.

I think you, like many, have blurred the line between man and devil when you make people "children of the devil." They are NOT. They are captives of the spirit of disobedience. We are always to have pity and love for the captives and seek to turn them from that captivity unto God in Christ, just as Jesus always did.

There are Children of God - who are tempted by the devil.

And if you recognize that temptation is internal, in the mind, through evil thoughts, and is of the devil, the spirit of disobedience, then the location of the devil should be abundantly clear to you. Chew on that for awhile and get back to me.

We, as believers MUST always walk with this "internal division" in mind. Some just get lulled to sleep on the subject and forget what it is we are dealing with. The fact of the matter is "we are no better" when it comes to having to deal with sin. We're all on equal footing on this subject. Romans 3:9, Gal. 3:22. The ONLY difference between us and an unbeliever is that Jesus has allowed us to see HIM, to follow HIM, and to divide from our spiritual captivity.

I see a man with satan next to him, already conguered

The notions that Satan has already been conquered is not anything remotely true. That remains on the event horizon. Who can look at the world today and NOT see that it is wracked in pain from that working?

Believers making their big celebration in the now that Satan is conquered and the big Jesus victory has been had don't have a clue. They have been had. There is work to do, battles to engage in and there is wrestling that is real. Eph. 6:11-12.

We have to gear up, not take off our gear and sit around celebrating. That comes at the end.

Our sins are of the influence of the devil. However, as I've stated to you before, saying that sin "indwells us" and is in our flesh is not biblical.

I'd suggest then you have never read and understood, personally, Romans 7:17-21.

Where does it state that sin "indwells" us?

Romans 7:17-21.

I only know that the Holy Spirit can indwell a person. Please show me the scripture.

See the above. And it's actually much more dire than just that. Paul gives us an even closer look at himself in 2 Cor. 12:7. And still, people will read it and they can't believe their own eyes.

Always thinking of the devil gives him the glory.

Casting aside the Word on this subject matter is opposition to The Word.

 

[MarkT]

This says nothing about Judas being the devil's seed.

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Matthew 15:13


This was spoken concerning the Pharisee's, not Judas Iscariot.

I was talking about the rain falling on the land, and the weeds, meaning the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed the weeds being the devil. The saying is true.

The rain gives growth to what is planted.

But the point is if you sow a devil, you are going to get a devil. So the Devil plants his offspring to do his will.

So Jesus called them serpents and vipers and blind guides
Matthew 23:33
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

And Judas was a devil and Jesus knew Judas was a devil.

He also called Peter Satan.

Does that mean Peter was Satan's son?

No. I think He said it to Peter because Peter was not believing Jesus. It was also a rebuke to Satan.

Judas was not always a betrayer, but was tempted and became a betrayer... He became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.” Acts 1:15-17



JLB

Judas was a devil and the betrayer from the beginning. So he became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. So what? Jesus knew who would betray him even before he was betrayed. Acts is just telling us Judas fulfilled the scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

This sounds like a play on words. Somehow I don't think "come back to Jesus" means in the physical sense. If it does, then it would seem we are all doomed without hope.

Not a play on words at all. Even the 11 saved disciples were confounded and defeated. Everyone thought He was dead. How would one 'return to Him' in that setting? I don't mean to be trite, but there were no phones or email. So just how would one try to return to Him, given that He had just died? When one dies, it is common knowledge that they are unavailable.

I'm just trying to understand how Judas would have done this. Not that there is any evidence that he even wanted to.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Am I missing something? How were any of the disciples saved before Jesus went to the cross? They were all Jews until the crucifixion. Judas was never saved because he was a Jew when he betrayed Christ and he was a Jew when he committed suicide. Judas tried to confess/repent/atone, but he had to do so through the Temple administered Kingdom. The Temple would have none of him so he had no spiritual vehicle for forgiveness. He had no hope. He went to Hell. The only real question is.....after Christ was crucified and went to Hell to preach the gospel....did He bring Judas out of there with Him?

 

[smaller]

Not a play on words at all. Even the 11 saved disciples were confounded and defeated. Everyone thought He was dead. How would one 'return to Him' in that setting? I don't mean to be trite, but there were no phones or email. So just how would one try to return to Him, given that He had just died? When one dies, it is common knowledge that they are unavailable.

I'm just trying to understand how Judas would have done this. Not that there is any evidence that he even wanted to.

I don't think any of the 12 had a clue about the events and how they would unfold. That information from Jesus was actively resisted in the adverse spiritual realm and that "blinding" was in their minds/hearts. And I'd suggest not only with Peter, but with all of them.

Matt. 16:
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Peter's (blindsided by Satan's) response?

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

I mean really, how much more blind and stupid could he be?

Peter made a similar expression of flat out unbelief here:

Matt. 26:
31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

And Peter's response, and not only Peter, ALL of them, right there were in flat out denial and unbelief, right to Jesus' Own Face!:

33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.

(Jesus-THINK AGAIN!)

34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

And Peter doubles down on his unbelief!

35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

I mean here they all are, at the Last Supper, in blatant unbelief and denial. Already IN IT up to their collective eyeballs!

 

[smaller]

Am I missing something? How were any of the disciples saved before Jesus went to the cross?

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Jesus was quite busy forgiving sins prior to His Cross:

Mark 2:
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

There are many actions of Jesus forgiving sins prior to the Cross. It's one of the reasons the religious leaders were so infuriated.

They were all Jews until the crucifixion. Judas was never saved because he was a Jew when he betrayed Christ and he was a Jew when he committed suicide. Judas tried to confess/repent/atone, but he had to do so through the Temple administered Kingdom.

It is unlikely Judas knew otherwise, even from Jesus. Jesus didn't come to change the rules. He openly stated He didn't come to destroy the law/prophets. Jesus instructed them "better" and with "clarity." But Jesus' Word IS actively resisted, which is a larger point. Officially, if the religious class didn't respect or honor a prophet, they didn't have official standing with the priest class. Prophets were SELDOM respected by the priest class. One of the reasons Israel got into such deep trouble.

Matthew 8:4
And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

The above was not done to denigrate the system, but to PROVE it, and Himself, to THEM.

There is no reason to believe that Judas didn't think he was following the rules in his repentance. But, again, the priest class basically chucked Judas out the door. Judas KNEW he sinned and repented, beyond any doubt. A case can be made that he extracted the eye for eye penalty on himself, by taking his own life.

The Temple would have none of him so he had no spiritual vehicle for forgiveness.

Under the legal system it was never just a matter of repentance, but also a payment, a penalty, an offering. It's not just saying "sorry man."

He had no hope. He went to Hell.

Entirely surmised. There is no such claim in the scriptures. An opposite sight is just as easily had from Romans 11:25-31 IF one really wants to "see it."

The only real question is.....after Christ was crucified and went to Hell to preach the gospel....did He bring Judas out of there with Him?

You already answered that question from your sight. You think Judas was or in hell. Hell in the final sense is the LoF, and that matter comes at the end. There was no LoF then nor is there now that we know of or can "prove." Hell in the sense of that time was the grave.

I believe Romans 11:25-31 could EASILY be applied to Judas, beyond any question, to me. Sometimes these sights are only a matter of perspectives from our end, meaning, we may be led to see as our own hearts direct us to see, and they can be led down several different conclusions, as the churches themselves show, openly. Some will see more graciously and with mercy. Others can be quite hardened against same. That's how God set up the system. Matt. 13:12, Heb. 4:12.

When believers walk in Grace and Mercy in Christ, see with Grace and Mercy in Christ, share with Grace and Mercy in Christ, they will walk in MORE of it. If we go the other direction, it not only can, but WILL BE yanked out from under us in progressively downhill fashions. Not saying such won't be saved. But believers do very much get 'hardened' against the Workings of God in Christ if they are not cautious about what and how they hear and how they live in that LIGHT.

 

[chessman]

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Judas didn't hear those words or the word to which He was referring. Judas was already identified as the one unclean disciple and told to leave by then.

John 13:10-11 (LEB) Jesus said to him, “The one who has bathed only needs to wash his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean, but not all of you.” For he knew the one who would betray him; because of this he said, “Not all of you are clean.”​

And what was the word spoken to the 11 clean disciples?

John 14:16-17 (LEB) “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you. ​

How long was the Adocate with the 11 after Jesus asked the Father to give Him to the 11? Forever. That's a long time to receive a gift from the Father. One might even call it irrevocable.

It's no wonder this sites' Statement of Faith says that genuine believers are "sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ."

Sounds like somebody's been doing Theology to me.

Is the world able to receive or even know the Spirit of Truth? No.

 

[LovethroughDove]

It was addressed. There are many citings for workings of the Holy Ghost prior to Pentecost in the scriptures. The notions that nothing happened in man with the Holy Ghost prior is not a truthful sight whatsoever.

Matt. 1:18-20, Mark 12:36, 1 Peter 1:10-12, etc. The later 2 citings in particular show the operations of the Holy Ghost were ongoing from very early O.T. times.

We all know the Holy Spirit was in the world before Pentecost. What is being ignored is the purpose of Pentecost! The Holy Spirit entered into believers! Before this event, the Holy Spirit was around us...........but not in us! And therefore, was not "in" Judas.

 

[GodsGrace]

We all know the Holy Spirit was in the world before Pentecost. What is being ignored is the purpose of Pentecost! The Holy Spirit entered into believers! Before this event, the Holy Spirit was around us...........but not in us! And therefore, was not "in" Judas.

Perfect.
We sometimes forget the Trinity!

Wondering

 

[smaller]

Judas didn't hear those words or the word to which He was referring. Judas was already identified as the one unclean disciple and told to leave by then.

Pretty sure Judas heard a lot of Direct Words of God in Christ that made him clean, even before Jesus made that statement.

And what was the word spoken to the 11 clean disciples?

The Word stood in flesh and Spoke, before their very eyes.

Mark 4:34
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Matthew 12:49
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

How long was the Adocate with the 11 after Jesus asked the Father to give Him to the 11? Forever. That's a long time to receive a gift from the Father. One might even call it irrevocable.

Conveyance came by many Words prior as well:

Luke 6 (including Judas)
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

It's no wonder this sites' Statement of Faith says that genuine believers are "sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ."

I acknowledge that sights of Judas may not conform with every readers personal sects "compliance checklist" requirements, but, there is GRACE and MERCY in Christ to see for Judas as well, IF a reader wants to see it.

Is the world able to receive or even know the Spirit of Truth? No.

The indwelling sin and evil present with NO MAN hears, sees or is obedient to God, other than to resist same. That much is very certain. Nevertheless, God in Christ Is Able.

No man is able to come to Jesus unless they are drawn to Him by God Himself. And JUDAS was assuredly called to Jesus, beyond any doubt. We don't give credit to Judas or any man for what Jesus did for all of us. But to say Jesus did or will do nothing for Judas, I do NOT think is right, myself.

Play on!

 

[smaller]

We all know the Holy Spirit was in the world before Pentecost. What is being ignored is the purpose of Pentecost! The Holy Spirit entered into believers! Before this event, the Holy Spirit was around us...........but not in us! And therefore, was not "in" Judas.

None of us can say for any certainty whatsoever that Judas is or will be in the LoF. That is entirely surmised on the part of the readers only. It's NOT written, that's for sure. Entirely guesswork. There is just as much ground to see Judas saved as lost, if not moreso on the saved side of the ledgers. Romans 7:25-32 settled it for me regarding "all" of Israel, even enemies of the Gospel that were/are Israel.

They are "beloved" for the sakes of the fathers, not of their own sakes.

 

[LovethroughDove]

None of us can say for any certainty whatsoever that Judas is or will be in the LoF. That is entirely surmised on the part of the readers only. It's NOT written, that's for sure. Entirely guesswork. There is just as much ground to see Judas saved as lost, if not moreso on the saved side of the ledgers. Romans 7:25-32 settled it for me regarding "all" of Israel, even enemies of the Gospel that were/are Israel.

They are "beloved" for the sakes of the fathers, not of their own sakes.

No, we don't know 100% if he is in the LoF. But, we know he wasn't indwelt with the Spirit.......the Spirit wasn't "in" believers at the time. He wasn't saved because being saved has to do with being born again of the Spirit. Hence, PENTECOST. (after Judas had killed himself)

 

[smaller]

No, we don't know 100% if he is in the LoF.

Very TRUE. Now there is an honest conclusion.

But, we know he wasn't indwelt with the Spirit.......the Spirit wasn't "in" believers at the time.

The Holy Ghost was assuredly in operation in people of Israel, LONG before Pentacost, as prior noted. None of us have any way of making definitive measures of how this was or was NOT so. The fact IS Gods Hands were upon the entire NATION of Israel and it's people from the start. We can't isolate that fact apart from anyone in Israel. We also know that God NEVER abandoned His people. Romans 11:1

He wasn't saved because being saved has to do with being born again of the Spirit. Hence, PENTECOST. (after Judas had killed himself)

You really should take a close read about the people of Israel, the enemies of the Gospel, in Romans 11. It's an eye opener. Specially verses 25:31.

What should be our GOSPEL STANCE for Israel, the blinded enemies of the Gospel, which would, in your eyes, also include Judas?

Romans 11:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

But---

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Very TRUE. Now there is an honest conclusion.



The Holy Ghost was assuredly in operation in people of Israel, LONG before Pentacost, as prior noted. None of us have any way of making definitive measures of how this was or was NOT so. The fact IS Gods Hands were upon the entire NATION of Israel and it's people from the start. We can't isolate that fact apart from anyone in Israel. We also know that God NEVER abandoned His people. Romans 11:1



You really should take a close read about the people of Israel, the enemies of the Gospel, in Romans 11. It's an eye opener. Specially verses 25:31.

What should be our GOSPEL STANCE for Israel, the blinded enemies of the Gospel, which would, in your eyes, also include Judas?

Romans 11:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

But---

Matthew 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The whole reason for Jesus showing up in the flesh, was to have the Holy Spirit enter flesh. He can now send the Holy Spirit into flesh since Pentecost.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

I don't know what that has to do with Israel? You are saved when you confess Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.

If you have heard the gospel and still want to be under the law, you will be judged by the law. Romans 8:2
But, this is irrelevant concerning Judas......cause he didn't have a chance to know the gospel yet.

 

[MarkT]

Genesis 6:5
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

We know man is evil; Genesis says so. Jesus said so.
Matthew 7:11
If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

No third party is necessary. Man is evil all by himself. If man was good, he wouldn't need a physician.

Jesus said,
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

Let's not depart from the truth. Judas was a devil. Men can be devils serpents, vipers.

To put it another way, devils can be men. In every example, the Pharisees, the Jews who wanted to stone Jesus and Judas who betrayed Jesus; in every case Jesus was either speaking to men or of men.

 

[FreeGrace]

Of course it's ignored. These are religious forums. Most people prefer the Bible over Jesus, sadly. John 5:39-40 NIV.

I guess that would explain all the contradictions we see in various people's views, since the Bible is the written Logos, and Jesus is the Living Logos.

The problem, of course, is that so many simply have not rightly divided the Word of Truth. Jesus is the Truth, and Jesus is the Logos (word).

 

[JLB]

I was talking about the rain falling on the land, and the weeds, meaning the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed the weeds being the devil. The saying is true.

The rain gives growth to what is planted.



So Jesus called them serpents and vipers and blind guides
Matthew 23:33
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

Again, this scripture is about the Pharisee's, not about Judas Iscariot.

But the point is if you sow a devil, you are going to get a devil. So the Devil plants his offspring to do his will.

Can you post some scriptures or refer to some language from the scriptures, that show us Judas Iscariot was planted a devil?


The language of the many scriptures I have shared tend to show us Judas was a man, a disciple of Jesus Christ, then he was sent out as an apostle, in which he was faced with temptation, and fell into transgression, and lost his place among those who were appointed to serve with Jesus and rule with Him at the resurrection.

IOW Judas believed in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, and followed Him, was promoted to apostle, and was known by Christ as a faithful friend, then Judas fell into transgression, in which he fell away from Christ.


Here are the scriptures, and the language which teach this:


Point #1 -
Judas was a disciple, one of "His sheep" having "heard His Voice and followed Him". [My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.]

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. 11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it.13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 10:1-13

• Judas had the peace of God, and the ability to bestow his peace upon a household.

Point # 2 -

• Judas was appointed to rule with Jesus and the other Apostles from twelve thrones, in the regeneration, rather than being destined to go to hell with the devil and his angels.

27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:27-28


Point # 3 -

Judas was ordained as one of the twelve apostles, then later "became a guide", "became a betrayer"... meaning he was not always a guide or betrayer, but became one. IOW he was a faithful friend of Jesus, an ordained Apostle, then became something else, not always being a betrayer, but became a guide to those who arrested Jesus Christ... he fell by transgression.

16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:

‘Let his dwelling place be desolate,
And let no one live in it’;

and,

‘Let another take his office.’

21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles. Acts 1:16-26

...to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell.


by transgression fell - Strong's G3845 - parabainō

1. to go by the side of
2. to go past or pass over without touching a thing
3. to overstep, neglect, violate, transgress
4. so to go past as to turn aside from
   1. to depart, leave, be turned from
5. one who abandons his trust
   

• Judas fell from his place with Christ and the apostles because of transgression.

• Like Lucifer, who was an anointed cherub, an angel of God, then later, fell and became Satan, the adversary.

JLB

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"But you've just given a passage from Matt 27:3-5 that shows Judas REPENTING of his sins by returning the money. Your view is contradicted. Please unravel."
[deleted]


Kinda late, given that Jesus was unavailable to him after His arrest and crucifixion.


Just the verses you've presented about Jesus sending out the 12 to do those things.

But the real and only question is where does the Bible actually SAY that Judas ever believed, or that he ever lose salvation? It's not been provided. Just verses with huge assumptions.

No scripture, just more opinion.

Repent means to turn to God. Judas never repented and turned back to Christ, to receive restoration and forgiveness.


If a person needs to turn to God, then by default they are turned away from God.


This is the message of the Gospel: Repent.


This is what Jesus called and sent His Apostles to do.

16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

• Judas never turned back to Christ, to receive the forgiveness of sins, but committed suicide and died in his sins.

24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” Acts 1:24-25


Judas fell from being a disciple of Jesus Christ, and an Apostle of the Lord, who was empowered to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils.


Can you or anyone else show us where Jesus ever promoted any disciple to Apostle, who was an unbeliever, and allowed them to baptize others who believed.

22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized.
John 3:22

and again

Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), John 4:1-2





JLB

 

[JLB]

So, one loses salvation WHEN one CONFESSES THEIR SINS??? Please explain how that occurs?

All you have to do to prove your point that Judas repented, "turned to God", is to show how it is you see the unbelieving Pharisee's who plotted to murder Christ, as representing God?


JLB