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Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

JLB said:
You stopped short of the verse that the New Testament quoted.
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You have consistently stopped short of defending your view that Jesus loved Judas as the Father loves Jesus but then later stopped loving Judas as the Father loves Jesus.

John 13:18-19 (NKJV) “I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’ Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He.​

Jesus did trust that Judas would do exactly what Psalm 41 says. All of it. Jesus was and still is quite familiar with what false friends do.

You do realize that Jesus didn't quote the part of verse 9 that you claimed He quoted, right? Jesus didn't say Judas was a trusted friend.
 
Jim Parker said:
Note Luke 22:3 "Then Satan entered Judas..."
Judas was a human being, not a devil, which is an angelic being.
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Jesus said, 'you are of your father the devil'. John 8:44 Was he speaking to angelic beings or was he speaking to men?

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
 
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MarkT said:
Jesus said, 'you are of your father the devil'. John 8:44 Was he speaking to angelic beings or was he speaking to men?

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
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He was speaking to men.


JLB
 
FreeGrace said:
Kind of an odd statement, given the OP title of Judas being "saved for a while", which is just an opinion without Scripture. What Scripture that has been given requires a large dose of assumption.
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Judas believed for awhile, then fell away.

This is the teaching from the parable of the sower.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15

Jesus taught that believe is the requirement to be saved.

...then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


Is it an assumption that a person who believes is saved?


JLB
 
chessman said:
So, is it your opinion (from your studying all Scripture and claiming that Judas was "saved for a while" from them) that Jesus still loved Judas as the Father loves Jesus on this night in the Garden? Or had Jesus stopped loving Judas as the Father loves the Son before that night?
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Just post the scripture you are referring to where it says Jesus loved Judas Iscariot, so that all can examine your claim.


JLB
 
MarkT said:
Neither one. A devil is by definition a weed, a creature, such as man, made to contain the Devil and his angels, who is made by the Maker for the Maker's purpose, to do the Devil's will, and then be destroyed.
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70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve. John 6:70-71


The Greek word for devil from John 6:70 is: Strong's G1228 - diabolos

  1. prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
    1. a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
  2. metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him

Your definition does not come from the original language.



JLB
 
JLB said:
Define what you mean by devil.


A.] Do you mean a wicked spirit?
or
B.] Do you mean a man that sides with the cause of the devil?


Judas was a disciple, apostle and trusted friend of the Lord, before, he ended up betraying Jesus.

The scripture says he... became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.

  • Judas was a trusted friend, then he became a betrayer.
Trust doesn't happen over night, but must be earned over time.
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How do you know that it must be earned over time?

I can just as easily say Judas was given a share in the ministry. Acts 1:17 and that would imply trust.

I can just as easily say Jesus quoted the important part of Psalm 41:9 That's the part that was fulfilled by Judas.

The truth is Judas was chosen to betray Jesus.
John 13:18
I am not speaking of you all; I know whom I have chosen; it is that the scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’
 
chessman said:
You have consistently stopped short of defending your view that Jesus loved Judas as the Father loves Jesus but then later stopped loving Judas as the Father loves Jesus.
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That is your view, and your subject matter that you introduced.

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69


Judas Iscariot believed Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and followed Him for 3 1/2 years, then fell away.



JLB
 
MarkT said:
How do you know that it must be earned over time?

I can just as easily say Judas was given a share in the ministry. Acts 1:17 and that would imply trust.

I can just as easily say Jesus quoted the important part of Psalm 41:9
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Trusted friend implies trust that has developed over time.


JLB
 
JLB said:
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve. John 6:70-71


The Greek word for devil from John 6:70 is: Strong's G1228 - diabolos




    • prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
      1. a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
    • metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
Your definition does not come from the original language.



JLB
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I don't care what Strong's says. Obviously he is promoting his own theology.
 
JLB said:
He was speaking to men.


JLB
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Right, and was he telling them fables? They understood he was talking about them, and they took up stones to throw at him. Jesus said, 'if God were your Father, you would love me', and 'You are of your father the devil', and 'you are not of God.' John 8:42-47

They were not of God. Their father was the devil. He was speaking to men. He was talking about them. So how can you say Judas was not a devil?
 
I asked you:
chessman said:
Do you think that Jesus ever loved Judas as the Father loved Jesus?

John 15:9-11 (NKJV) “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.​
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You answered yes. So it is your view, not mine, that Jesus ever loved Judas in the way the Father loves the Son.
JLB said:
Based on this scripture, I would say yes.

As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you;...
John 15:9
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JLB said:
Just post the scripture you are referring to where it says Jesus loved Judas Iscariot, so that all can examine your claim.
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See the Scripture above (John 15:9-11) and your answer to the question. But again, it is not my view that those words were ever spoken to Judas.

JLB said:
That is your view, and your subject matter that you introduced.
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It is not my view that Jesus ever loved Judas as the Father loves the Son (obviously, for if Jesus ever did love Judas in this way, He still does.). But it is your stated view.

My view is that Judas was not present when Jesus spoke John 15 to His disciples. He had left them already at Jesus' direction to do so in John 13:27. I have no reason to believe Jesus ever loved Judas in the way Jesus loved His disciples that heard John 15.

John 13:30 (NKJV) Having received the piece of bread, he then went out immediately. And it was night.​

But I am asked you, given your view, when did Jesus stop loving Judas. Or does He still love Judas in the way the Father loves the Son, on your view? (Not mine)

Since your claim is Judas was "saved for a while", surely you have a view as to when Jesus stopped loving Judas in the way the Father loved the Son.

I know what my view is. I just don't understand yours. Nor how your view aligns with John 15:9 (and many other passages).
 
chessman said:
You answered yes. So it is your view, not mine, that Jesus ever loved Judas in the way the Father loves the Son.
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That is your view, and your subject matter that you introduced.

Again, this is your subject matter, and a view that you have introduced.

If it pertains to this thread, then post the scripture you want to discuss.

If it doesn't pertain to this thread, then start your own thread, and discuss it there.


JLB

 
MarkT said:
Right, and was he telling them fables? They understood he was talking about them, and they took up stones to throw at him. Jesus said, 'if God were your Father, you would love me', and 'You are of your father the devil', and 'you are not of God.' John 8:42-47

They were not of God. Their father was the devil. He was speaking to men. He was talking about them. So how can you say Judas was not a devil?
Click to expand...

You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. John 8:44

Everyone who has yet to be in covenant relationship with the Lord Jesus, has the devil as their "father"; which means, has him as governing their mind, or has the devil as their master or authority over them.


IOW, a person who does not honor God, nor obey God, shows that God is not their Father.

Father - Strong's G3962 - patēr

  1. generator or male ancestor
    1. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
    2. a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
      1. fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation
    3. one advanced in years, a senior
  2. metaph.
    1. the originator and transmitter of anything
      1. the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
      2. one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
    2. one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
    3. a title of honour
      1. teachers, as those to whom pupils trace back the knowledge and training they have received
      2. the members of the Sanhedrin, whose prerogative it was by virtue of the wisdom and experience in which they excelled, to take charge of the interests of others
  3. God is called the Father
    1. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler
    2. of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because he is their creator, preserver, guardian and protector
      1. of spiritual beings and of all men
    3. of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close and intimate relationship with God, and who no longer dread him as a stern judge of sinners, but revere him as their reconciled and loving Father
    4. the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes, appointed to explain and carry out among men the plan of salvation, and made to share also in his own divine nature
      1. by Jesus Christ himself
      2. by the apostles


JLB
 
Judas Iscariot was a member of the household of God... for a while.


...It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [will they call] those of his household! Matthew 10:25

Judas was a member of the household of God, then turned and became an enemy, by betraying the Lord, as He goes on to say...

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ Matthew 10:34-36





JLB
 
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