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Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

It is a fact that if a person realizes Jesus is Lord and believes in the resurrected Christ, they will be saved. Nothing else is saving belief.

Romans 10:9

You have made up your own Gospel, then you tagged your opinion with a scripture refetence rather than post the scripture.

"Realize" has nothing to do with it.

Obeying the Gospel by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord is how we are saved through faith.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


JLB
 
You have made up your own Gospel, then you tagged your opinion with a scripture refetence rather than post the scripture.

"Realize" has nothing to do with it.

Obeying the Gospel by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord is how we are saved through faith.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


JLB

You keep ignoring the part where it says "you will be saved" in that passage. Judas didn't have the chance yet to be saved. Because God had not raised Jesus from the dead yet.

This passage is the Gospel.


1 Corinthians 15:17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

Sorry for not posting the words from the Romans 10:9 passage, I thought it would come up if you had your mouse over it?
 
You have made up your own Gospel, then you tagged your opinion with a scripture refetence rather than post the scripture.
I believe it is in keeping with the spirit of the rule to link scripture to pop up. You don't actually need to copy/paste the text to be in line with the rules of the A&T.
 
Jesus said, 'you are of your father the devil'. John 8:44 Was he speaking to angelic beings or was he speaking to men?
John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
OK.
Not a difficult question to answer.
Jesus was speaking to HUMAN BEINGS ("men") when He said that.
The devil, being non corporeal (as in: "I ain't go no body") is not physically capable of begetting human beings.
THEREFORE: the devil cannot literally be any person's father.
and
THEREFORE: Jesus was using a METAPHOR to describe the behavior of the people He was addressing. They were acting AS IF the devil were actually their father.

Essentially, Jesus was saying that the scribes and Pharisees, rather than being disciples of Moses, as they professed to be, were, in fact, disciples of the devil and they religiously followed the example of the devil. The devil was their "spiritual father" training them to do evil in a manner similar to Paul was a father to the Corinthians training them to do righteousness. (1 Cor 4:14-17) AS Paul was not literally the father of everyone in the church at Corinth, neither was the devil the literal father of the scribes and Pharisees who opposed Jesus.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
 
It is a fact that if a person realizes Jesus is Lord and believes in the resurrected Christ, they will be saved. Nothing else is saving belief.
Romans 10:9
We have lost some of the meaning of that verse over time.
"...if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,..."
Confessing Jesus Lordship, at the time when Paul wrote to the Roman church, meant that the one who called Jesus "Lord" was in total submission to everything that his Lord commanded no matter what obedience any other ruler, governor, king, or even Caesar demanded.

Christians were martyred because saying Jesus is Lord was the equivalent of saying that there is a Lord higher than Caesar to whom you give full allegiance and obedience. If the emperor commanded anything contrary to Jesus' word, the Christian was bound to disobey Caesar. That was treason ans it was punishable by death.
It also meant, that no earthly ruler was qualified to be addressed as Lord because the Christian had only one Lord: Jesus Christ. (Another capital offense in the eyes of Rome.)

Today, the belief in Jesus as Lord and in His resurrection is commonly held as an intellectual proposition. I believe E=MC squared and I believe Jesus is Lord and God raised Him from the dead.

True belief in the Lordship of Jesus includes, not just intellectual assent but, also, unconditional obedience to everything He commands.

moia dva kopeckii :twocents


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)

DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
 
True belief in the Lordship of Jesus includes, not just intellectual assent but, also, unconditional obedience to everything He commands.

moia dva kopeckii :twocents


iakov the fool

I agree with what you have stated, I just didn't post everything again. I also wanted to add to the "held as an intellectual proposition". I think for most humans, the resurrection is not something they can wrap their minds around. It is only a conclusion one comes to when you know exactly who Jesus is. John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, be men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

People will not see Jesus for everything he is. I don't know if Judas knew Jesus totally, but I doubt it cause he probably loved the darkness instead of light? But it isn't even a discussion if he was saved, because saving belief is Romans 10:9
 
OK.
Not a difficult question to answer.
Jesus was speaking to HUMAN BEINGS ("men") when He said that.
The devil, being non corporeal (as in: "I ain't go no body") is not physically capable of begetting human beings.
THEREFORE: the devil cannot literally be any person's father.
and
THEREFORE: Jesus was using a METAPHOR to describe the behavior of the people He was addressing. They were acting AS IF the devil were actually their father.

Essentially, Jesus was saying that the scribes and Pharisees, rather than being disciples of Moses, as they professed to be, were, in fact, disciples of the devil and they religiously followed the example of the devil. The devil was their "spiritual father" training them to do evil in a manner similar to Paul was a father to the Corinthians training them to do righteousness. (1 Cor 4:14-17) AS Paul was not literally the father of everyone in the church at Corinth, neither was the devil the literal father of the scribes and Pharisees who opposed Jesus.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

Jesus told them God was not their Father, and they were not of God. John 8:42-47

Is God the Father literally, or was Jesus speaking metaphorically? Is God just acting as if he were actually our father?
 
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You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. John 8:44

Everyone who has yet to be in covenant relationship with the Lord Jesus, has the devil as their "father"; which means, has him as governing their mind, or has the devil as their master or authority over them.

Not necessarily. The sons of the evil one are sons by birth, the Devil's seed, not by covenant, as if they made a covenant with the Devil. But concerning the master of the house, I agree they serve the Devil.

“Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; Mt. 13:36-39

The good seed are the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. These weeds are sown in this world, meaning they are men, and they are sowed among the wheat.

Mt. 13:24 “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants of the householder came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ 29 But he said, ‘No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

I don't think everyone who doesn't believe is a devil. In this parable, the weeds and the wheat grow together, which suggests they both drink the same supernatural drink (the word of God). So the weeds would be the false teachers and the false prophets who will appear at the harvest/the close of the age. Mt. 13:40

This is why I say, Beware of the teachings of the scholars and the historians!
 
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Jesus told them God was not their Father, and they were not of God. John 8:42-47
Is God the Father literally, or was Jesus speaking metaphorically? Is God just acting as if he were actually our father?
"YOUR Father", THE Father" and "OUR Father" are three very different concepts.
When Jesus said that God was not the scribes' and Pharisees' father He was speaking about their behavior being more in line with the activity of the devil than with God. His use of the word "father" was metaphorical.
When we use the tern "The Father" we are referring to the fist person of the Trinity. That is is using the word "Father" to identify one of the Trinity.
When we say "our Father", assuming that the "we" are truly believers, they are referring to their adoption as sons and daughters of God. It is a literal meaning and similar to the relationship between an adopted child and his adoptive parents.
Because you have conflated those three concepts in your questions, it is impossible to answer them. I can't tell which of those meanings you mean when you use the word "father." :shrug

jim
 
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"YOUR Father", THE Father" and "OUR Father" are three very different concepts.
When Jesus said that God was not the scribes' and Pharisees' father He was speaking about their behavior being more in line with the activity of the devil than with God. His use of the word "father" was metaphorical.
When we use the tern "The Father" we are referring to the fist person of the Trinity. That is is using the word "Father" to identify one of the Trinity.
When we say "our Father", assuming that the "we" are truly believers, they are referring to their adoption as sons and daughters of God. It is a literal meaning and similar to the relationship between an adopted child and his adoptive parents.
Because you have conflated those three concepts in your questions, it is impossible to answer them. I can't tell which of those meanings you mean when you use the word "father." :shrug

jim

Then you're saying God was their Father.
 
moia dva kopeckii :twocents
tvoia ne ye moia

While not the MOST reliable source, Google Translate says you two are mutilating the Russian language.
(Since you are speaking in 'tongues', could we get someone with the gift of 'translation') :wink

1 Corinthians 14:26-28
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
 
“Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.” 37 He answered, “He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; Mt. 13:36-39

The good seed are the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. These weeds are sown in this world, meaning they are men, and they are sowed among the wheat.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:36-43

Yes, the tares are referring to men.

What language in this parable, guides us to assign the tares to Judas Iscariot, especially since the time frame of this scenario is the end of the age?

29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” Matthew 13:29-30


Here is another parable in the same Matthew 13, that describes 4 different scenario's, whereby people hear the Gospel.

Group 1:
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

Group 2:
20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Group 3:
22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

Group 4:
23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”


Which one of these category's would you assign to Judas Iscariot?

Which one of the category's represent people who are saved?



JLB
 
You keep ignoring the part where it says "you will be saved" in that passage. Judas didn't have the chance yet to be saved. Because God had not raised Jesus from the dead yet.

This passage is the Gospel.


Which proves that a person is not saved, when they first believe, but rather at the end of a faithful life; a life of faith.

The end result of faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


You keep Ignoring the part where it says salvation.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10



JLB
 
dirtfarmer here

If Romans 10:10 states that when one believes with the heart and confession is made with the mouth unto salvation and that is at the end of a faithful life; what happens if at the end of a persons life they are senile and don't make a confession? are they saved?
 
Which proves that a person is not saved, when they first believe, but rather at the end of a faithful life; a life of faith.

The end result of faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


You keep Ignoring the part where it says salvation.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10



JLB

Are we just not connecting here? I was trying to make the point that being saved includes (confess Jesus is Lord) and (the risen Jesus).
 
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