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Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

LovethroughDove said:
Are we just not connecting here? I was trying to make the point that being saved includes (confess Jesus is Lord) and (the risen Jesus).
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68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69



JLB
 
JLB said:
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69
JLB
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"... we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
You are aware that the devil already knew that, right? Luke 4:41

jus' sayin'

iakov the fool
 
Jim Parker said:
"... we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
You are aware that the devil already knew that, right? Luke 4:41

jus' sayin'

iakov the fool
Click to expand...

So what is it that set the 12 disciples of the Lord, apart from the devil?


JLB
 
JLB said:
Which proves that a person is not saved, when they first believe, but rather at the end of a faithful life; a life of faith.
The end result of faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning.
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eeeeeYESSSS!!
:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup
:woot2:woot2:woot2:woot2:woot2 (<-- those are Pentecostals dancing in the isles. <Been dere. Dun dat>)
 
JLB said:
Which proves that a person is not saved, when they first believe, but rather at the end of a faithful life; a life of faith.

The end result of faith is the salvation of your soul, not the beginning.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

You keep Ignoring the part where it says salvation.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

JLB
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Hi JLB
I need to understand exactly what you mean in your first sentence.

A person IS saved when they first believe. They are saved at that moment.
They do not know if they will be saved at the end of their life.
What caused them to be saved at the BEGINNING, must CONTINUE to the end.
At the end of their life, they receive the reward of salvation.

What must continue is the belief in Jesus and the belief in His commands and our earnest desire to keep them.
Hows this...
We are saved
We are being saved
We will be saved.

It will not be till the end that we receive our reward if we endure to the end,
however, let's not discourage anyone either - we can know we are saved even now if, at the foot of the cross, we believe Jesus is our Lord and we do His will. If we continue in this, we will receive our reward, salvation, at the end.
Hebrews 3:12-19
Hebrews 4:1
Philippians 3:10-11

Wondering
 
wondering said:
What caused them to be saved at the BEGINNING, must CONTINUE to the end.
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:salute

wondering said:
A person IS saved when they first believe. They are saved at that moment.
They do not know if they will be saved at the end of their life.
What caused them to be saved at the BEGINNING, must CONTINUE to the end.
At the end of their life, they receive the reward of salvation.

What must continue is the belief in Jesus and the belief in His commands and our earnest desire to keep them.
Hows this...
We are saved
We are being saved
We will be saved.

It will not be till the end that we receive our reward if we endure to the end,
however, let's not discourage anyone either - we can know we are saved even now if, at the foot of the cross, we believe Jesus is our Lord and we do His will. If we continue in this, we will receive our reward, salvation, at the end.
Hebrews 3:12-19
Hebrews 4:1
Philippians 3:10-11

Wondering
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It's not about discouraging one another, but encouraging one another to continue to believe, to continue in the faith, to continue to hold fast to what we first believed.


Amen!



JLB
 
JLB said:
:salute




It's not about discouraging one another, but encouraging one another to continue to believe, to continue in the faith, to continue to hold fast to what we first believed.


Amen!



JLB
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I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2Timothy 4:7

Then he describes his Victor's crown...
 
MarkT said:
If metaphorically, then not literally. I'm asking you, who was their father literally?
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"Literal" father means "biological" father.
Since there was more than one of "them" we can safely assume that they had different biological fathers.
Their literal/biological fathers are not named in scripture. In fact, they are not named but are only identified as scribes and pharisees.
 
wondering said:
Hi JLB
I need to understand exactly what you mean in your first sentence.

A person IS saved when they first believe. They are saved at that moment.
They do not know if they will be saved at the end of their life.
What caused them to be saved at the BEGINNING, must CONTINUE to the end.
At the end of their life, they receive the reward of salvation.

What must continue is the belief in Jesus and the belief in His commands and our earnest desire to keep them.
Hows this...
We are saved
We are being saved
We will be saved.

It will not be till the end that we receive our reward if we endure to the end,
however, let's not discourage anyone either - we can know we are saved even now if, at the foot of the cross, we believe Jesus is our Lord and we do His will. If we continue in this, we will receive our reward, salvation, at the end.
Hebrews 3:12-19
Hebrews 4:1
Philippians 3:10-11

Wondering
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I agree. So many are saved on their deathbeds just before being called home.
 
daninthelionsden said:
I agree. So many are saved on their deathbeds just before being called home.
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Hi DanITLD
I agree that many are saved on their death bed before being called home.
However, I would like to add the following to this...

First of all, God cannot be mocked. We can't fool Him. Our calling out to him must be sincere.
In other words, a person can't do whatever he wants all his life and not have God be apart of his life with the plan that he'll call on God at the last moment.

First of all, one does not know when death will come. It's not always by appointment! Sometimes a person dies suddenly and there is no time for repentance.

It also may not work because God knows this was the person's plan all along. We cannot make a fool of God.

If the person is sincere it will work. Only God knows this and this is why I never judge a person's soul.
We can only speak in general terms. Jesus Himself spoke about Judas so I have no problem with this thread.

We can, however, from certain signs think a person might not be saved and try to introduce them to God.
This requires much caution since we cannot see their heart.

There would be more to say regarding a person's tendency toward salvation after a lifetime far from God,
However let's stay on the positive side!

Wondering
 
MarkT said:
Jesus told them God was not their Father, and they were not of God. John 8:42-47

Is God the Father literally, or was Jesus speaking metaphorically? Is God just acting as if he were actually our father?
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Hi Mark, sorry to break into your conversation with Jim Parker.
This is an important concept to understand and it's difficult for me to believe that you don't. Maybe you're trying to make a point that is not coming through?

God is THE FATHER. He is the first person of the Trinity. He is the Creator.
God is OUR Father because we're believers and as such have some of His attributes.

We are CHildren of God because we have HIS attributes.

If a person has the attributes of satan, we can say that they are children of Satan.
Why? Because a person learns to behave and believe as their parent teaches them.

Jesus did not mean this in a literal sense of course. Only in a spiritual sense as regards our actions, our beliefs, and WHO we are following.

Wondering
 
James said it this way -

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Judas Iscariot did not endure temptation, but rather he fell by transgression.


JLB
 
Jim Parker said:
"Literal" father means "biological" father.
Since there was more than one of "them" we can safely assume that they had different biological fathers.
Their literal/biological fathers are not named in scripture. In fact, they are not named but are only identified as scribes and pharisees.
Click to expand...

I mean literally true. The literal truth, according to the word that Jesus spoke, is that they were not Abraham's children.

"They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do what Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God; this is not what Abraham did. John 8:38-40

They were of their father, the devil. John 8:44

The Jews presumed to have Abraham as their father, but Jesus told them God can raise up children to Abraham from stones, so being descendants after the flesh (biological) didn't make them Abraham's children.
Matthew 3:9
and do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.

So I wasn't asking you who their biological parents were. I asked you who was their father, literally, according to the word? If you say the word 'father' is a metaphor, then you are saying the word Jesus spoke is not literally true.
 
JLB said:
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69



JLB
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One last time and then I am done with this debate. We are SAVED through the cross of Christ. Jesus had not gone to the cross yet, so Judas didn't have a chance to be saved. We can't even discuss this, because the grace hadn't been given yet. Mercy had been given to people, but not grace.

This is grace and how we are SAVED.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


"Being" is an action currently getting accomplished in the world. People are being saved with the gospel of the cross, death and resurrection.

Ephesians 2:5-6 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions - it is grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.


This is mercy before the cross and mercy if you have not heard the gospel yet.

Romans 9:14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
 
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