Justified by His Blood alone !

[beloved57]

Redemption and Justification come through His Blood, not by Faith in His Blood. One whom Christ died for has been Redeemed by His Blood and Justified by His Blood and reconciled to God by His Blood while they are enemies Rom 5:9-10. That doesn't apply to all men without exception, since some people are under Gods condemnation and wrath as enemies Jn 3;18,36 !

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I don't think bible verses contradict other bible verses.
-
Bible verses dont contradict each other if you remember 3 things.
( and notice how they all tie together.)

1.) God deals differently with "man" at different times..
Old Testament, New........No Law before Moses, .....Jesus satisfied the Law and we are no longer under it....(Grace)
Jewish water baptism in Acts 2:38, ... while later Paul preaching only "believe on the Lord and tho shalt be saved"
Jesus is not dying for anyone's sins before the Cross lifted Him up to do it that began the "New Testament" and 2nd Covenant.
WE are now "redeemed from the curse of the Law", in the Old Testament, (1st Covenant).
So, thats a small sample of God dealing differently with mankind.. at different times.

2.) Keep in mind that a book like the Acts of the Apostles, is a progressive revelation...over time, and this is why a message that Peter preached in Acts 2:38, is not what Jesus taught Paul as the Gospel of Grace. (Justification by Faith).
So, Peter cant preach in Acts 2 what he didnt know about yet that Paul taught later, and Paul does not preach what Peter preached in Acts 2 because God's continuing REVELATION regarding "Grace Through Faith" came to Paul much later and was not given to Peter in Act 2:38.

3.) Apostles throughout the New Testament, didnt all know about the revelation of the Grace of God at the same time, and so, their epistles reflect what they KNEW but not necessarily all they would come to know LATER when they wrote them.


Also I want to point out the verse quoted Eph 2:8, sounds like God gave both grace and faith to us. As a gift and not from ourselves. I don't mean to point this out to disagree with our tasks in faith, which include having faith and holding on to it,


There is a lot of misconceptions about "holding onto your faith, or you go to hell if you dont".
This is really bad and really dangerous theology, as it removes what we are to believe that has ALREADY saved US, which is Jesus and his sacrifice and God saving us when we TRUST IN CHRIST...., and falsely refocuses our faith on our faith so that our salvation becomes...."im saving myself to the end.... by confessing my sins and holding onto my faith".
God said that the work He began in you, (redemption) that HE would complete it Himself"... Philippians 1:6
We are told that "but according to HIS MERCY = HE SAVED US"....and that is not your faith or your confessing your sins, is it?
Hebrews 12: 2 says: that Jesus is the "AUTHOR and FINISHER of our Faith:....and not US doing that to try to saves ourselves.
Faith is a transmission device that allows God to release Salvation to us, and following the new birth, God and Christ take it from there.
This is why Jesus The Christ is in heaven right now "making intercession for YOU".
Very important to realize this, or you'll end up trying to save yourself which is a Cross that Only Jesus was sent to bear.

I appreciate your explaination Kidron and the portions about being saved by the Blood of Jesus remind me of another scripture that says to trust the wisdom of God and not the wisdom of man. In a way I think people are looking to understand God and through that be able to better serve Him, save themselves with the correct understanding, or to help save and bring others to God. But unfortunately (the way I take it anyways), we don't understand correctly everything, and even if we don't understand why something happens, or why a teaching is given, we still need to trust God, because His wisdom is greater then our own.

Similarly the idea of having faith is given as if our faith is an action that we do. So among other things regarding faith, our salvation is based on the amount of faith we hold. It is a scary thought, and I hope that our salvation is not dependent on an amount of faith any more then our salvation is dependent on how we act. It's my current hope that having faith is all that is needed to hold on to God's salvation, and everything above and beyond that adds to either treasures in heaven, or has the benifit of strengthing our faith in God and thus strengthen our relationship with Him.

With that in mind, you now know how I agree with and possibly why I agree with the idea of being saved by the blood of Jesus. The next step of believing in Jesus is my understanding of faith, and for those who I love and worry for, I hope that God will allow His sanctification to pass on them as well when their time comes in death or in the fulfillment of the end times. I also hope God will count me and those I love who are Christian as saved because we believe, and love God. The next steps of faith however might be best in a different discussion. What I do not agree with however, is that God has changed how He deals with us. It seems to me that God's promises, rebukes, lessons, and even the history in the bible are prophetic. It does not make sence to me if that phenomon can be true if God deals with us differently while we still live in our sinful condition; as we have since Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

 

[FreeGrace]

All can mean some.

So, please exegete all 3 verses that SAY that Christ died for ALL and show how it only means "some".

Now, those all Christ died for are Justified freely by His Blood. Do you deny that ?

I deny your claims. When Rom 5:1 and 9 are taken together, it is clear that one is justifed by FAITH in His blood, which is a euphemism for His sacrifice on the cross. Not His literal blood.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who Christ died for Heb 10:10

Nope. V.10 is a new paragraph with a new subject. And the verses that precede v.9 use "all" 3 times, and in EVERY case, the "all" really does mean "all". It's a quote from Psa 8. And v.9 goes with v.8, not v.10 as claimed.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save."

Free Grace
That is a false statement. Please show us the scripture that says that.

I did in my response to the OP. 1 Cor 1:21 says: For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

My statement is directly supported by Scripture. I don't know how the phrase "to save those who believe" can be misunderstood as being God's requirement for whom to save.

He saves those who believe. Do you deny that??

 

[FreeGrace]

Have you studied all those scriptures and their context ? That's your responsibility since you bring them up. Now please explain each verse and its context to show how they invalidate the Op.

The verses need no help from me. They are direct and clear. And I even helped with understanding by putting some of the words in red.

If my use of these verses is wrong, then those who disagree have the responsibility to prove it. I've already disproved your claim that "all for whom Christ died are justified" by proving that Christ died for everyone, and gave verses that actually SAY that.

And I've pointed out that Rom 5:1 goes with 5:9 to further clarify v.9. Calvinism reduces faith in Christ to be just something else in the gift of salvation. But it's what God requires in order to save someone.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save"

FreeGrace

This promotes salvation by works, by what a person does. This denies Salvation by what Christ did alone ! This statement brings glory to man,or its a attempt to.

Nonsense. Believing is NOT a work, as Paul thoroughly taught in 2 places: Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9.

Man is saved by grace through faith, and not by works. The Bible does NOT consider the action of believing to be a work.

 

[FreeGrace]

Redemption and Justification come through His Blood, not by Faith in His Blood.

Then should we all just cut Rom 5:1 out of our Bibles??
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"

Your view ignores faith.

 

[Kidron]

I

So among other things regarding faith, our salvation is based on the amount of faith we hold.

-
Let me assure you and all believers here, that our salvation is based on God accepting what Jesus has done for us.
Jesus = is our Salvation.
Jesus, = is our eternal life
Think of it like this.....
If there were no Cross and No Blood shed for your sins, ....where is your "faith" then?
So, understand that we are not to have faith in our faith.....to save us.
WE are to have FAITH in GOD WHO SAVED US , because of what CHRIST DID FOR US.
See, its something that happened 2000+ years ago that God accepts on your behalf to accept you, right now.
He doesn't accept you because of YOU.......He only accepts you because of JESUS on a CROSS.

This gets back to the heart of your faith.., in that you have to ask yourself....."what am i TRUSTING to get me to heaven, if i DIED TODAY...????
And if you are a Christian, you are to trust what saved you.. JESUS ON A CROSS.....as the only WAY to get to heaven. = The BLOOD Atonement = Redemption.
HE DID IT FOR YOU ON A CROSS........YOU DONT DO IT.

See, you didnt save yourself initially by your FAITH, but rather GOD SAVED YOU< because you once believed.
Its "Grace THROUGH FAITH".......not, grace is faith.
So, we understand that Its GOD who saved us, and not our faith doing it.
"WE believeth on HIM who JUSTIFIES"......
We are not to trust in our faith to save us or keep us saved, but we are to realize that God has SAVED US.
An Evangelist would explain it like this...
"You take Christ, God takes you"......because this is how simple it is to be SAVED.
Being "saved" is God taking you instead of God rejecting you, and that is based on CHRIST'S BLOOD ATONEMENT ALONE making it happen for you, because you TRUSTED THIS at some point in your life, and at that moment God took you as His eternal own, and you were born again into HIS FAMILY.

 

[beloved57]

I said this:
"So, it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save"

Nonsense. Believing is NOT a work, as Paul thoroughly taught in 2 places: Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9.

Man is saved by grace through faith, and not by works. The Bible does NOT consider the action of believing to be a work.

Believing is a work, an act that man does. So you are promoting salvation by an act of the person.

 

[FreeGrace]

-
Let me assure you and all believers here, that our salvation is based on God accepting what Jesus has done for us.
Jesus = is our Salvation.
Jesus, = is our eternal life
Think of it like this.....
If there were no Cross and No Blood shed for your sins, ....where is your "faith" then?
So, understand that we are not to have faith in our faith.....to save us.
WE are to have FAITH in GOD WHO SAVED US , because of what CHRIST DID FOR US.
See, its something that happened 2000+ years ago that God accepts on your behalf to accept you, right now.
He doesn't accept you because of YOU.......He only accepts you because of JESUS on a CROSS.

This gets back to the heart of your faith.., in that you have to ask yourself....."what am i TRUSTING to get me to heaven, if i DIED TODAY...????

And if you are a Christian, you are to trust what saved you.. JESUS ON A CROSS.....as the only WAY to get to heaven. = The BLOOD Atonement = Redemption.
HE DID IT FOR YOU ON A CROSS........YOU DONT DO IT.

See, you didnt save yourself initially by your FAITH, but rather GOD SAVED YOU< because you once believed.

Its "Grace THROUGH FAITH".......not, grace is faith.
So, we understand that Its GOD who saved us, and not our faith doing it.
"WE believeth on HIM who JUSTIFIES"......
We are not to trust in our faith to save us or keep us saved, but we are to realize that God has SAVED US.
An Evangelist would explain it like this...
"You take Christ, God takes you"......because this is how simple it is to be SAVED.
Being "saved" is God taking you instead of God rejecting you, and that is based on CHRIST'S BLOOD ATONEMENT ALONE making it happen for you, because you TRUSTED THIS at some point in your life, and at that moment God took you as His eternal own, and you were born again into HIS FAMILY.

 

[FreeGrace]

Believing is a work, an act that man does.

I just showed FROM SCRIPTURE that it isn't a work. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Rom 4:4,5 - 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Eph 2:8,9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Both passages teach that we are saved BY BELIEVING, NOT by WORKS.

So you are promoting salvation by an act of the person.

The act of saving comes from God alone. It isn't our action of believing that saves us, but God Himself that saves those who believe. Remember 1 Cor 1:21?

 

[Kidron]

Man is saved by grace through faith, and not by works. The Bible does NOT consider the action of believing to be a work.

--
-

-
"oh the Blood of Jesus
oh the BLOOD of Jesus
oh the BLOOD of Jesus
IT = makes me white as snow.... "

 

[beloved57]

Believing is a work, an act that man does. So you are promoting salvation by an act of the person.

The word work in the bible as in Eph 2:9 is the greek word ergon and means:
2.any product whatever, anything accomplished by hand, art, industry, mind

an act, deed, thing done:

Believing is a act, a act of the mind and or heart, so it's by definition a work.

 

[beloved57]

Free Grace:

"

So,it is man's action of believing that fulfills God's requirement for whom to save."

This is salvation by works, by the act of man.

 

[beloved57]

I just showed FROM SCRIPTURE that it isn't a work. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Rom 4:4,5 - 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Eph 2:8,9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Both passages teach that we are saved BY BELIEVING, NOT by WORKS.


The act of saving comes from God alone. It isn't our action of believing that saves us, but God Himself that saves those who believe. Remember 1 Cor 1:21?

Not one scripture you have quoted says believing is not a work.

 

[Sinthesis]

The bible call

2 Pet 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Some are unjust.

Did you read and understand the points in the Op ?

Some are unjust, but they aren't created unjustifiable, which is the error of Calvinism. In the context of 2 Pet 2:9 we see Sodom referred to as the unjust. However, in Mat 11:20-24 Jesus Himself says Sodom wasn't beyond redemption had He visited them.

Mat 11:20 ¶ Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mat 11:21 - Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mat 11:22 - But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Mat 11:23 - And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 11:24 - But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.​

Christ's death was for all without exception. Some have and will continue to reject the fact that Christ died for them, just as they reject the fact that Christ was ever born for them, or even conquered death for them.

 

[beloved57]

Some are unjust, but they aren't created unjustifiable, which is the error of Calvinism. In the context of 2 Pet 2:9 we see Sodom referred to as the unjust. However, in Mat 11:20-24 Jesus Himself says Sodom wasn't beyond redemption had He visited them.

Mat 11:20 ¶ Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mat 11:21 - Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mat 11:22 - But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Mat 11:23 - And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 11:24 - But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.​

Christ's death was for all without exception. Some have and will continue to reject the fact that Christ died for them, just as they reject the fact that Christ was ever born for them, or even conquered death for them.

Those Christ died for are made Just Rom 5:19. So them that are unjust He could not have died for.

 

[beloved57]

Those Christ died for are sanctified and perfected by His Death alone Heb 10:10,14!

 

[Sinthesis]

Those Christ died for are made Just Rom 5:19. So them that are unjust He could not have died for.

According to Rom 5:19 and your reasoning, Adam's original sin never applied to all of us.