Legalism

[Cnkw3]

apparently you dont understand justification btw i was still in sin the night i got saved was justified the moment i said God save me read Ephesians 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, present who were dead in trespasses and sins; {past} quickened means to be made alive verse 1 present past

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

The key word is “quickened”. Paul is telling the Ephesians that they had been quickened but he doesn’t really give any details does he? To be “quickened“ is to be made alive or born again. Does Paul give us any information anywhere about HOW one is “quickened”? I think so. Lets look at Colossians.
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:11-13
These people, through baptism, were “quickened” made alive having their sins removed. This makes sense, because we know that the new life begins when sins are removed or forgiven and we know that through baptism sins are remitted acts 2:38, washed away ac 22:16, and its through baptism we are saved. 1 pet 3:21, mk 16:16.
Now….were the Ephesians baptized? Yes! Twice. The first time they did it for the wrong reason so Paul had them do it again. This is how Paul could say they had been “quickened”. It wasn’t by faith alone or at the point of mental acceptance of Jesus.
Feel free to break this down and show how I twisted this idea of being “quickened”. I am just letting the Bible define what it means and reading the words of Paul. I have put no spin on this whatsoever. Paul either meant what he said above or he cannot be trusted. i think he knew what he was talking about.

 

[Cnkw3]

if you dont support it nether do i my reply would be no everyone can read for themselves

You know that to try and do it is a losing proposition for you.

 

[jerry63935]

You know that to try and do it is a losing proposition for you.

lol you ever heard the song put me in coach im ready to play? your so far in leftfield home base is not in sight

 

[Hopeful]

Very telling to me that the shed blood of this Jesus who is the Christ presents a problem for you as it pertains to discussing the thief securing salvation ?
This blood being the New Covenant.

Mat 26:28

"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

That the blood of Christ is a perplexing point to be avoided in discussing seems very bizarre to me.
This blood being the New Covenant.
Your final word on it being that this shed blood on the cross of Christ being absolutely useless to the thief in securing his salvation, as you have claimed.
For myself I cannot imagine the shed blood of Christ every being useless.

Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins.
Water baptism in His name for the remission of sins wasn't necessary for the thief.

 

[farouk]

Baptism is a symbol.

It is the Holy Spirit Who brings about the new birth. Cf. Acts 16, 'Lydia, whose heart the Lord opened'.

 

[jerry63935]

Water baptism in His name for the remission of sins wasn't necessary for the thief.

just why not? let me try to help you............. NOTE try *** Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: first we go then we teach then baptism in the name of the father son Holy Ghost . salvation=== first were justified by the Blood By Grace and by Faith. please note ***** NO WATER is used in any of these scriptures NO baptism . saved by grace through faith no water baptism.


water baptism follows salvation after we been saved there no scripture that says water baptism saves us/
read the great commission . you are promoting false doctrine.

 

[farouk]

water baptism follows salvation after we been saved there no scripture that says water baptism saves us/

Actually I agree with what you are saying..........

 

[jerry63935]

Actually I agree with what you are saying..........

not tooting my own horn . but every thing i posted is all scripture …20But after he had pondered these things, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to embrace Mary as your wife, for the One conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.” 22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:…


no water baptism

 

[Cnkw3]

just why not?

Because the thief lived under the old covenant. Not the one you and I live under. The thief never heard…
MK 16:15,16

let me try to help you............. NOTE try *** Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: first we go then we teach then baptism in the name of the father son Holy Ghost . salvation=== first

Where does the great commission EVER say salvation comes first? It doesn’t. It actually says…
Mk 16:15,16 Go preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved! NO. Salvation comes after baptism. You can argue with God all you want. He said it not me.

were justified by the Blood By Grace and by Faith.

At what point does the Bible say that your sins are removed? Can you give me book chapter and verse please? There are plenty of them so it shouldn’t be very hard. I know you wont but I still have to ask. You will regurgitate some nonsense some preacher has told you long time ago that now you are so invested in that there is no turning back. Thats a bad place to be..

please note ***** NO WATER is used in any of these scriptures

The great commission in Mk 16 and Matt 28 are both water baptism. Why? Because Jesus commanded that man administer it. HS baptism has NEVER been commanded.

NO baptism . saved by grace through faith no water baptism.

The letter to the Ephesians (people that had already been saved) were to a group of people that had been baptized in water twice and here you are saying that they were saved by grace and faith and no water when they actually hit the water twice because they didnt do it right the first time. But you dont care about details

water baptism follows salvation

Mk 16:16. Jesus said….he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
Are we saved (according to Jesus and not you) before or after baptism? You‘ll never give the truth because you are too far gone but maybe an open hearted guest who is reading this sees the absurdity in your position
Paul, in Rom 6 as he describes water baptism, says that we are buried with Christ and then raised to walk in newness of life as we come up out of the water (resurrected). Does salvation occur before the new life? Of course not but you dont really care about details do you?

after we been saved there no scripture that says water baptism saves us/

1 pet 3:21. The like figure where baptism doth also now save us!
There is no scripture that says your sins are removed at the point of faith. I“ll be patiently waiting for it.
Therefore there is no salvation at the point of faith .

read the great commission . you are promoting false doctrine.

I think that the any reasonable person that reads this reply that completely answers all of your false positions above can determine for themselves who is promoting truth and who is promoting a doctrine of the devil.

 

[Cnkw3]

not tooting my own horn . but every thing i posted is all scripture …


no water baptism

Show me the scripture that says….sins are removed at the point of faith. It would look something like this…
Acts 2:38. repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
It should look something like that. Or maybe this..
acts 22:16. Ananias told Saul…arise and be baptized and WASH AWAY THY SINS.
You know something like that. We can know from the above passage that Saul was NOT saved at the point of faith. Why? Because according to the text he was still in his sins.
Since you are so scriptural in your replies you should have no problem showing us all of these passages that have sins removed at the point of belief.

 

[jerry63935]

Show me the scripture that says….sins are removed at the point of faith. It would look something like this…
Acts 2:38. repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
It should look something like that. Or maybe this..
acts 22:16. Ananias told Saul…arise and be baptized and WASH AWAY THY SINS.
You know something like that. We can know from the above passage that Saul was NOT saved at the point of faith. Why? Because according to the text he was still in his sins.
Since you are so scriptural in your replies you should have no problem showing us all of these passages that have sins removed at the point of belief.

sure just as soon as you do a study on justification which means declared RIGHTEOUS --not guilty ---JUST AS IF WE HAD NEVER SINNED . looks like by your work based theory that Jesus was a sinner due to him being baptized

Hebrews 8:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9 :
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

by all means feel free to cling to your work based salvation . baptism is something man has to due Grace is Christ doing it all for us --the forgiveness of sins at the cross..

personally if you feel the need to be baptized just make sure your saved.. go for it as it puts YOUR faith in what man has to do. salvation is the free gift saved forgiven of all sins then baptized .

enjoy your legalism .i will enjoy my Grace thanks to the finished works of the cross. JESUS said it is finished or wait did he wait one more thing find a man to baptize ? Grace vs your Man doing something extra meaning the cross was not good enough === works works and more works

 

[jerry63935]

The thief never heard…

he must heard today you will be with me in paradise ..next you will need purgatory to bail you out

 

[Cnkw3]

he must heard today you will be with me in paradise ..next you will need purgatory to bail you out

What? Dont get it?
You take the Bible out of context you might as well take my reply out of context to.

 

[jerry63935]

What? Dont get it?
You take the Bible out of context you might as well take my reply out of context to.

what i need add more water ? as in watered down theology

 

[Hopeful]

just why not?

Because the thief did exactly what we do at our baptisms into Christ, and into His death.
Confess, die with Christ, and get raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
His new life was in paradise, while ours is on earth.

let me try to help you............. NOTE try *** Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: first we go then we teach then baptism in the name of the father son Holy Ghost . salvation=== first were justified by the Blood By Grace and by Faith. please note ***** NO WATER is used in any of these scriptures NO baptism . saved by grace through faith no water baptism.

Isn't it really all at the same time?
The hearers/believers will definitely want their past sins remitted quickly, don't you think?
I got baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins the same night I heard about it.

water baptism follows salvation after we been saved there no scripture that says water baptism saves us/ read the great commission . you are promoting false doctrine.

Are the sins of the unbaptized remitted?
How?
I will stipulate the belief comes before baptism.
But salvation won't be mine till I find my name is in the book of life on the day of judgement.
Till then, I will labor in Christ to maintain my conversion.

 

[jerry63935]

Are the sins of the unbaptized remitted?
How?
I will stipulate the belief comes before baptism.
But salvation won't be mine till I find my name is in the book of life on the day of judgement.
Till then, I will labor in Christ to maintain my conversion.

sigh the doctrine of the Blood attornment.
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Hebrews 9:22 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

1 Peter 1:19 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextBut with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Hebrews 9:18 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextWhereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

Hebrews 13:12 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextWherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Hebrews 7:3 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextWithout father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 13:11 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextFor the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

Hebrews 9:7 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextBut into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

Hebrews 9:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextHow much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

the tabernacle the high priest entered the Hollies of hollies with what? water or Blood

Isn't it really all at the same time?
The hearers/believers will definitely want their past sins remitted quickly, don't you think?
I got baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins the same night I heard about it.

is it the same ? NO the very moment we get saved/born again our sins are forgiven justification .

when you show me scripturas that says we are justified by water baptism . i will change my belief .
no man has indoctrinated me . i have read my Bible and salvation is all about what Christ did for us.
called grace --the divine favor of God


grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians
Chapter 2​

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



show me water baptism the great commission go teach then baptize romans Ephesians both nothing being baptized to be saved

I will stipulate the belief comes before baptism.
But salvation won't be mine till I find my name is in the book of life on the day of judgement.
Till then, I will labor in Christ to maintain my conversion.

first part your just about to come out of left field
our name is written the lambs book of life the moment we get saved/born again
i have a know so salvation. you labor to keep your salvation . mine is kept by the power of GOD

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


you just had a Sunday morning message on a Saturday.


i have showed you enough scripture to more than counter your water baptism salvation.

there only 3 groups i am aware of who places strong emphasis on water baptism to wash sins away.

do we have to be baptized to be saved ? NO should baptism follow salvation YES IT SHOULD its a statement you are ready to follow Christ and it is symbolic of the watery grave and the new man resurrected .

might i add 2nd Corinthians 5:21 its all about Christ and the finished works of the cross and him rising again on the 3rd day .

no water baptism

 

[jerry63935]

Isn't it really all at the same time?
The hearers/believers will definitely want their past sins remitted quickly, don't you think?

why ask me if you know ? my entire answers is based on justification the vey act of our sins forgiven .the very moment of salvation
read the new cov hebrews 8
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

do your home work prove me wrong

 

[Cnkw3]

sure just as soon as you do a study on justification which means declared RIGHTEOUS --not guilty ---JUST AS IF WE HAD NEVER SINNED . looks like by your work based theory that Jesus was a sinner due to him being baptized

Yes jesus had no sin but you do! The Bible tells us why jesus was baptized.

Hebrews 8:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9 :
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

by all means feel free to cling to your work based salvation . baptism is something man has to due Grace is Christ doing it all for us --the forgiveness of sins at the cross..

The above passages say nothing against baptism. I dont even know why you posted them?
It says above…….”their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more”.
At what point does God say that our sins have been removed, remitted, washed away?
If you like posting Bible passages, then post those. I really dont think you care much for the Bible. You love yourself and your pastor. Or maybe you are the ”pastor”.

personally if you feel the need to be baptized just make sure your saved.. go for it as it puts YOUR faith in what man has to do. salvation is the free gift saved forgiven of all sins then baptized .

No scripture there? Why is that? Its because you love the sound of your own voice more then the sound of Gods.

enjoy your legalism .i will enjoy my Grace thanks to the finished works of the cross. JESUS said it is finished or wait did he wait one more thing find a man to baptize ? Grace vs your Man doing something extra meaning the cross was not good enough === works works and more works

After Jesus said “it is finished”. He then said… (to 11 men)
go preach the gospel to every creature. (that takes a man)
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
It was jesus that commanded water baptism, not me.
You love self and your own pet doctrine more then the Lord.

 

[jerry63935]

What is the importance of Christian baptism? | GotQuestions.org

What is the importance of Christian baptism? What is the meaning of baptism? What does it mean to be baptized? Why do I need to be baptized?

www.gotquestions.org

got questions is reformed teaching read what they say

 

[jerry63935]

The above passages say nothing against baptism. I dont even know why you posted them?
It says above…….”their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more”.
At what point does God say that our sins have been removed, remitted, washed away?
If you like posting Bible passages, then post those. I really dont think you care much for the Bible. You love yourself and your pastor. Or maybe you are the ”pastor”.

lol you got one thing correct

. I dont even know

it shows oh and BTW i am the pastor and your correct on another thing on the new cov.. it has nothing to do with water baptism . its based on the finished works of Christ here add some more water to your work based salvation . maybe i should find the kind bible you use so i can understand mine teaches Blood attornment and justified by grace blood faith.

i have observed not once have you used any of them

Very simply, baptism is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life. Christian baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord after salvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved. ( read the article ) your either apostolic , church of Christ or catholic . they are the only 3 i know of holds your belief

What is the meaning of the blood of Christ? | GotQuestions.org

What is the meaning of the blood of Christ? Why is the blood of Jesus so emphasized in the New Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

once again this is written by a Calvinist . while i am not Calvinist i do agree with the article.

lets see the old song what can wash away my sins? nothing but the Blood of Jesus .

' when i see the Blood i will pass over you . we take Lords supper two elements are represented the Blood and his broken body