Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

The first two chapters of Romans and half the third is the bad news. Man is without excuse.

You are looking at Romans 1-3 through the Protestant lense of Scripture interpretation. Chapter 2 does not speak about "man is without an excuse". Clearly, men ARE being saved by what they do as a result of the Spirit-written Law in their hearts.

chapter one - all gentiles are aware of God, via His works. Yet, they end up choosing their own ways, to perdition

I simply read the scripture as it's written. Do I accuse you of looking at it through a Catholic lens?
Let's just discuss the verses and go from there. (I am quite capable of reading the Word without viewing it from anyone's lens.)

What I said was the first 2 1/2 chapters of Romans is the bad news...Paul spends a great deal of time telling man that he chooses sin, and lists them out. Man is indeed without excuse because creation declares the Creator.

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Then he begins to preach the Gospel....salvation is for those who believe in Christ.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[quote="francis desales]chapter two - some gentiles are "spiritual Jews" as a result of the Law written on their hearts. Jews are wrong when they teach the ways of God but don't do them. [/quote]
Here he is speaking to all men...not to think themselves better than others...judging when they do the same things themselves, and tells them the goodness of God leads to repentance...turn ye...change your direction and seek God. And, yes, he does stress one's heart.

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Both Jews and Gentiles will be JUDGED. Those following the law or following one's conscience (without sinning) will be justified....which we know none can do.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law (Gentiles): and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (Jews).(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

[quote="francis desales]No man is justified by their works ALONE. But their works in God do save, Romans 2 makes that crystal clear..[/quote]
No, man's works do not save. We are saved by grace through faith. Not by works lest any man should boast. I hear a lot of boasting about good works. That is error. It was through Christ's obedience unto death...and His righteousness is imputed to us. We are judged on our works, not saved by our works.

When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

Yes, a wonderful quote for those who think they can make a one-time statement and never worry again about whether they will "die"... All the past righteousness will be forgotten.

Nice attempt to brush off scripture, but your personal opinion of others does not change the Word of God. The fact is..works do not save us. Those who are saved are ordained by God unto good works. Why man wants to claim his good works get him saved is beyond me. When we're filled with the Holy Spirit, His fruit will be manifest in us. They aren't our works....they're Christ's work in us. Don't put the cart before the horse and claim the cart is pulling itself along the road.

 

[glorydaz]

In other words: We first start our journey to overcome by believing Jesus is the Son of God. Then after that, we must be born from above, as we lay down our old life and allow ourselves to be crucified with Christ. (Not my will, but Thy will be done) Then as we die to self, we grab hold of the promises of God , by believing them (faith) and we then walk by faith into the manifestation of those promises.

We purify ourselves by obeying the truth in the Word : 1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth......... We are told that we must clean our walk ourselves and we do that through our obedience : 1Jn 3:3 And every one that hath this hope set on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We are "born from above" (reborn) as we accept the Word into our hearts and soul. We start receiving His nature, His character and His authority, as we submit to the Word in obedience to the truth.
Thus we overcome.

It's obvious we "can" sin, therefore John is saying we are "purified" by having Christ in us. Not by working ourselves into a state of purity. In the same way, we overcome. Not because we become some sort of super-perfect man, but because we have Christ in us. His righteousness has been imputed unto us. Because we are sons of God...we have overcome the world by being born again and having his seed in us. He is righteous so we are righteous. He is perfect so we are perfect. We are one with Christ. We don't turn into little mini-Gods thinking we have anything to do with our salvation or our keeping.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Speaking of laying hold of the promises of God (see red above), I'm all for that. The promises abound and yet many claim they aren't in the Book.

He who believes has eternal life (John 6:47).... Every one who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:40).... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish: no one can snatch them out of my hand (John 10:28)…. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1).... Those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son (Romans 8:29).... [Nothing] will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:39).... [Christ] will keep you strong to the end (1 Corinthians 1:8).... God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear (1 Corinthian 10:13).... He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion (Philippians 1:6).... We have passed from death to life (1 John 3:14).

 

[watchman F]

Speaking of laying hold of the promises of God (see red above), I'm all for that. The promises abound and yet many claim they aren't in the Book.

You don;t even believe what God has promised, much less do you lay hold of them.
2nd Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is what God promised that we can partake of Christ's divine nature escaping the corruption of this world. You do not believe this is true.

 

[Adullam]

Being reborn or "born from above" is not a once-off experience, but an ongoing experience. Its like the sun rising in your heart until perfection comes manifestly: Pro 4:18 But the path of the righteous is as the dawning light, That shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Amen! The door is narrow, and so is the way!

Hi

And remember he is the door of the sheep - John 10:7

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine - John 10:14

Those who are not of his sheep - believe not - John 10:26

I know them, and they follow me - John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice

John 10:28 - "And I give unto them eternal life : and they shall never perish

1. Eternal life

2. Never perish

No one is suggesting that God is not able to preserve His saints. What we are against is grandstanding. Calling ourselves righteous.

With the faithful, God will be faithful....but with the froward God will be froward. We reap what we sow...not what we believe about ourselves. Hitler thought he was a good Christian too!


With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. Ps 18:26



Froward: adj.
Stubbornly contrary and disobedient; obstinate.

 

[Adullam]

God may not be pleased when you go up to Him declaring your righteousness based on your belief in Him.

 

[glorydaz]

Speaking of laying hold of the promises of God (see red above), I'm all for that. The promises abound and yet many claim they aren't in the Book.

You don;t even believe what God has promised, much less do you lay hold of them.
2nd Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is what God promised that we can partake of Christ's divine nature escaping the corruption of this world. You do not believe this is true.

Presumptuous and judgmental all rolled into one. :biglaugh

If you'd bothered to read my posts, you'd see I do, indeed, believe the promises. We are saved by grace through faith. Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His MERCY HE saves us. His faith...Christ's righteousness not our own. It is the power of God that saves and keeps those who have born again of God. He who says he has no sin is a liar, and we see quite clearly the fruit of those who think more highly of themselves than they ought.

 

[francisdesales]

You are looking at Romans 1-3 through the Protestant lense of Scripture interpretation. Chapter 2 does not speak about "man is without an excuse". Clearly, men ARE being saved by what they do as a result of the Spirit-written Law in their hearts.

chapter one - all gentiles are aware of God, via His works. Yet, they end up choosing their own ways, to perdition

I simply read the scripture as it's written. Do I accuse you of looking at it through a Catholic lens?
Let's just discuss the verses and go from there. (I am quite capable of reading the Word without viewing it from anyone's lens.)

What I said was the first 2 1/2 chapters of Romans is the bad news...

Ouch, testy...

You "simply read the Scriptures as written???

Where is this "bad news" in chapter 2 - unless you are Jewish... I'd say this is WONDERFUL news, that God's plan of salvation is open to people who are NOT Jewish. Very rarely do we see any sort of mention of pagans being saved, receiving the law written on their hearts, and being spiritually circumcised in the Scriptures available to Jews before such universal recognition that God works where HE wills...

You "simply read the Scritpures as written???? Really??? ;)

This is why I brought up the "protestant lens". You clearly are not reading what is there, but what you have been taught to interpret it, as in John 20:22-23.

Read chapter 2 again and get back with me...

Regards

 

[Caroline H]

Tone it down folks :bigfrown

 

[watchman F]

Speaking of laying hold of the promises of God (see red above), I'm all for that. The promises abound and yet many claim they aren't in the Book.

You don;t even believe what God has promised, much less do you lay hold of them.
2nd Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is what God promised that we can partake of Christ's divine nature escaping the corruption of this world. You do not believe this is true.

Presumptuous and judgmental all rolled into one. :biglaugh

If you'd bothered to read my posts, you'd see I do, indeed, believe the promises. We are saved by grace through faith. Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His MERCY HE saves us. His faith...Christ's righteousness not our own. It is the power of God that saves and keeps those who have born again of God. He who says he has no sin is a liar, and we see quite clearly the fruit of those who think more highly of themselves than they ought.

You do not believe the promise made in the passage i gave

 

[glorydaz]

Being reborn or "born from above" is not a once-off experience, but an ongoing experience. Its like the sun rising in your heart until perfection comes manifestly: Pro 4:18 But the path of the righteous is as the dawning light, That shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

That's one long labor.
No wonder there so much emphasis on "works".

It's called newness of life, and first we're babes, then young men, then old men.
First we're born...then we grow. We're not being born for years on end.
Being born again is to be born from above. By the water and the Spirit.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

A new creature has been born...for those in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Are you still of the flesh or have you been "born of the Sprit?"

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Those who doeth righteousness are born of Him....and why? Because He abides in us and works through us. His righteousness is imputed unto us. Are you saying you are still of the flesh and are only in the process of being of the spirit? We'll never be "perfected" until we are given our spiritual body.

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

[glorydaz]

You are looking at Romans 1-3 through the Protestant lense of Scripture interpretation. Chapter 2 does not speak about "man is without an excuse". Clearly, men ARE being saved by what they do as a result of the Spirit-written Law in their hearts.

chapter one - all gentiles are aware of God, via His works. Yet, they end up choosing their own ways, to perdition

I simply read the scripture as it's written. Do I accuse you of looking at it through a Catholic lens?
Let's just discuss the verses and go from there. (I am quite capable of reading the Word without viewing it from anyone's lens.)

What I said was the first 2 1/2 chapters of Romans is the bad news...

Ouch, testy...

You "simply read the Scriptures as written???

Where is this "bad news" in chapter 2 - unless you are Jewish... I'd say this is WONDERFUL news, that God's plan of salvation is open to people who are NOT Jewish. Very rarely do we see any sort of mention of pagans being saved, receiving the law written on their hearts, and being spiritually circumcised in the Scriptures available to Jews before such universal recognition that God works where HE wills...

You "simply read the Scritpures as written???? Really??? ;)

This is why I brought up the "protestant lens". You clearly are not reading what is there, but what you have been taught to interpret it, as in John 20:22-23.

Read chapter 2 again and get back with me...

Regards

I'm confident I've read chapter 2 more times than you have brother, and, yes, the Holy Spirit is a wonderful teacher. Paul was presenting the gospel message. Each chapter builds up to the grand finale of "grace". Grace is not mentioned until 3:21. Until grace comes into the picture all of it is bad news, for without grace none would be saved. The reason for that is to show that all the good deeds in the world will only earn you judgment...even though you're seeking eternal life, because even one single sin will mean you perish under the law or, as the gentiles, under their own law of the conscience.

I'll say again. I simply read the scripture as it's written, and it's really quite plain if you don't have an agenda...that of a works based salvation. That's really the point of this entire thread. When Paul speaks of the circumcision of the heart, he is talking repentance...not salvation. For salvation, we must be raised into newness of life...born again of God.

 

[glorydaz]

[quote="watchman F":1tzsxcxy] You don;t even believe what God has promised, much less do you lay hold of them.
2nd Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is what God promised that we can partake of Christ's divine nature escaping the corruption of this world. You do not believe this is true.

Presumptuous and judgmental all rolled into one. :biglaugh

If you'd bothered to read my posts, you'd see I do, indeed, believe the promises. We are saved by grace through faith. Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His MERCY HE saves us. His faith...Christ's righteousness not our own. It is the power of God that saves and keeps those who have born again of God. He who says he has no sin is a liar, and we see quite clearly the fruit of those who think more highly of themselves than they ought.

You do not believe the promise made in the passage i gave[/quote:1tzsxcxy]
It's truly amazing that you claim to know what I believe.

I certainly do believe all the promises and you gave a good one, but you neglected to point out that we are partakers in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. It's His righteousness...not ours. It's His diving nature...not ours. And I certainly have escaped the corruption in the world through lust. Christ defeated sin at the cross...sin has no more dominion over me.

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Now would you like to claim I'm a horrible sinner not living up to the glory of God? Oops, guess what? All men sin and come short of the glory of God, so feel free to judge me. It really doesn't bother me in the least....in fact, I count it all joy.

 

[Cornelius]

Jesus gives a warning to Christians who does not abide in Him and then fail to bear fruit. They will be cut off and cast into the fire.


Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[Cornelius]

Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: if thy brother sin, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

We see here that we must rebuke sinners who are in the body of Christ. If somebody is comfortable with their sin, they must be told to repent.

Paul here says he judges sinners who are in the body:

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing,
1Co 5:4 in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

We are certainly not allowed to judge those who are sinning in the world.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without?

But we must judge those who are sinning that call themselves Christians

1Co 5:12 ...... Do not ye judge them that are within? (Yes we do )
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.


If a somebody who calls themselves a brother refuses to repent of a sin: Judge him and put that wicked man away from yourselves.

In fact, when they refuse to repent:1Co 5:4 in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[glorydaz]

One must remember that self-righeousness can get ahold of a man as fast as anything. What you consider sin may not be sin for me. What I consider sin, may not be sin for you. It's a fine line we walk when we judge our brothers. Paul was talking about a man that was having sex with his father's wife or some such thing. The church was encouraged to put him out of fellowship until he repented...which is all well and good. But one must remember....we each answer to the Lord, and it not our place to accuse people of sinning when they simply have more liberty in some area than you may have. Just something to consider...in case you haven't.

 

[Cornelius]

I am fully aware of what this entails, or I would not be posting about it.

We are given direct instructions in the Word regarding sin. We are told who will not enter the Kingdom and we are told to first warn those who are living in sin. The Bible gives us guidelines which we must follow.

Mat 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Mat 18:15 And if thy brother sin against thee (not in the original Greek), go, show him his fault between thee and him alone: if he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mat 18:16 But if he hear thee not, take with thee one or two more, that at the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may be established.
Mat 18:17 And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church: and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican.

So there is a Biblical method. We are not to run around judging people by ourselves and cutting them off. In Mat 18 we see how it must be done.

I am also not talking about sins that people who are young in the Lord is not aware of yet. Nor am I talking about sins that have been repented of and the person still has a problem overcoming it. I am talking about willful disobedience where a person just claim that everybody sins and therefor its OK for them also, because God will forgive them. That is not in the Bible.

 

[Cornelius]

We do not have the freedom to do these sins and still get to go to heaven.

1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

We also know that these mentioned sins, have categories that fall under them.Idolatry does not mean falling down and worshiping a carved image, its now more than that. Its anything that comes before God in our lives. Adultery : Mat 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Jesus raised the bar on sin.

We have to hunger after righteousness and not rest in our sins. We must overcome them: Mat 5:6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[francisdesales]

One must remember that self-righeousness can get ahold of a man as fast as anything. What you consider sin may not be sin for me. What I consider sin, may not be sin for you.

??? who wrote the commandments and who do we answer to? Ourselves or God???

Sin is sin, for everyone. I'm hoping I am just misunderstanding you, I probably am, but that didn't come out very well from you.

It's a fine line we walk when we judge our brothers. Paul was talking about a man that was having sex with his father's wife or some such thing. The church was encouraged to put him out of fellowship until he repented...which is all well and good. But one must remember....we each answer to the Lord, and it not our place to accuse people of sinning when they simply have more liberty in some area than you may have. Just something to consider...in case you haven't.

Calling upon someone to repent is an act of Love, glory. We are mimicing God. No, we don't condemn people, but we ARE called to be prophetic and call people out of a life of sin. Otherwise, WHO would become evangelized? One must feel a sense of sin and shame and desire to come out of it. It doesn't happen so easily when we don't challenge others.

I think what can happen is that we over-challenge or assume without all the facts without realizing what is truly happening. We jump to conclusions and rush to judge. However, when the facts are clear and we see a brother in sin, we are not just to sit on our hands and pray for him, we are to actively take him in private and talk to him...

Matthew 18:16-17...

Those who DO are rewarded, according to James...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Jesus gives a warning to Christians who does not abide in Him and then fail to bear fruit. They will be cut off and cast into the fire.

Is "cast into the fire" a "lesser reward" some talk about here??? ;)

:onfire



Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I'm confident I've read chapter 2 more times than you have brother, and, yes, the Holy Spirit is a wonderful teacher.

And yet, you tell me that chapter 2 is "bad news" for mankind???? Again, where does this interpretation come from? Is this something you were taught by someone else, or did you get that from the words actually written in chapter 2???

Paul was presenting the gospel message. Each chapter builds up to the grand finale of "grace". Grace is not mentioned until 3:21.

The point, as I have made to you a number of times, despite my "few readings" you speak to me about, is just that. The first three chapters speak about man's need for God. Grace. Go back and look at my various posts on Romans 1-3. Yea, I'm Catholic, we all know we don't read the bible, EVER, but haven't I talked about this for quite some time while you ignore me???

Until grace comes into the picture all of it is bad news, for without grace none would be saved.

Grace has ALWAYS been in the picture. From day one. What enabled Abel to offer sacrifice to God? God's grace... And so forth into today. God was pleased with many men as a result of man's response to God's initiative of Grace. Men have sought after God from the beginning and have had faith in this God, due to this pouring of grace into the hearts of men - and these same men responded to obey that law written on their hearts.

Bad news???? An agenda-driven comment if I ever saw one... Romans 2 is "bad news" only to judgmental Jews who considered pagans unworthy of salvation or were hypocritical teachers who taught one thing and did another. It's not bad news to Gentiles!!!

The reason for that is to show that all the good deeds in the world will only earn you judgment...even though you're seeking eternal life, because even one single sin will mean you perish under the law or, as the gentiles, under their own law of the conscience.

Romans 2 doesn't say good deeds earn "judgment", meaning the wrath of God. It specifically says their good deeds, moved by God working in the heart of men, brings eternal life.

Only those who bind themselves to the Law as their means to save will be required to obey every single mandate perfectly. Those under grace, who love God for the sake of loving Him, are not required to be perfect. God is a loving Father. Didn't you pick that up in your countless readings of the Old Testament??? Which HUMAN father expects absolute perfection from their child? Yet, God, LOVE ITSELF, expects absolute and perfect obedience, otherwise, one is condemned to eternal hell???

Romans 2 is the perfect example that men do not need to be perfect in the ways of the Law. They have circumcised their heart, which is what God desires, not outward show without inner conviction. Not wounding oneself or not eating pork or countless utensil washings...

I'll say again. I simply read the scripture as it's written, and it's really quite plain if you don't have an agenda...that of a works based salvation.

Really - this is quite a lame response. Read Romans 2 again, I don't care if it is the one thousandth time, there is no "bad news" there, unless you are Jewish.

You read the Scriptures and tell me Romans 1-3 is bad news... That's a reading with an agenda that all men are filthy rags. That Jesus must "cover us" so the Father doesn't see we are mounds of manure covered with pure white snow. That we are merely imputed with Jesus' righteousness. Yea, that is an agenda alright.

Clearly, man has been given access to God's Spirit, even if they never heard of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Clearly, men have been given the ability to obey God and obtain eternal life as a result of this Spirit within them.

Clearly, you are so worried about "works salvation" that you overlook Romans 2 and what it says.

When we receive the reward of eternal life as a result of our obedience to God, it is not works salvation, because it is GOD WORKING IN US IN THE FIRST PLACE that enables us to bring about this fruit.

Works salvation means I did it. I earned it. It doesn't mean that a work of love is worthless in God's eyes... God is absolutely instrumental in me doing a work of love - and God rewards me for HIS abiding presence within me! What an absolute gift of the Father!

Regards