Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[Elf]

this is my poistion, while lean slightly to the eternal security side of the house, i see some flaws with that thought. ie some chrurches that you can have salvation without having open fellowship and growth in the lord.

So another words, easybelieveism?

if that aint there either you didnt repent or, the eternal security thing is false.

I assume you mean "if that aint there, ie. fellowship and growth in the lord?

if you are saved you will want to be with christ as he is your daddy, and if we love our parents on the earth, how much more so when the Lord forgives us and adopts us.

I may be mistaken, or maby I don't understand what your question was.

I believe if a person is regenerated (saved), the Lord works with them individually, and each matures at their own pace.
Of these, some may not be genuine, others are; this the Lord knows, not us. We can only assume.
I do not believe it is safe to develop a belief off what other (proclaimed) Christians do in life, we do not know their state, their level of maturity, or what God may be doing in their lives presently.
But, we should believe a doctrine because it is taught in scripture.

i have more questions.

ok...............

 

[Adullam]

Still waiting for you lose-its to deal with these verses - I've dealt with most of yours:
Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7
When we judge others and do not forgive them
2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24
When we return to the previous condition of rebellion.
3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13
When we block out the voice of God in our hearts. (A heart can even do it's own bypass around a blocked vein)

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

When we run away and deny Him. If you deny Me I will also deny you.

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6
When we walk in our own ways

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

When we mix what is holy with the world

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

When we fall short of His glory

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

We remain sealed for the judgment seat of Christ. The verdict is pending.

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

When we follow after unrighteousness.

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

When we curse others.

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

When we take up our old lives again.

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

When we follow dead works.

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

When we walk in unbelief.

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

When we exchange the truth of God for a lie.

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

When we deny the power of God while keeping up appearances.

A lot of good statements, but no scripture to back them up that say anyone will lose their salvation.

Does "Judge not lest you be judged" become obsolete with the advent of Christ?

 

[jasoncran]

this is my poistion, while lean slightly to the eternal security side of the house, i see some flaws with that thought. ie some chrurches that you can have salvation without having open fellowship and growth in the lord.

So another words, easybelieveism?

if that aint there either you didnt repent or, the eternal security thing is false.

I assume you mean "if that aint there, ie. fellowship and growth in the lord?

[quote:31ksfi3l]if you are saved you will want to be with christ as he is your daddy, and if we love our parents on the earth, how much more so when the Lord forgives us and adopts us.

I may be mistaken, or maby I don't understand what your question was.

I believe if a person is regenerated (saved), the Lord works with them individually, and each matures at their own pace.
Of these, some may not be genuine, others are; this the Lord knows, not us. We can only assume.
I do not believe it is safe to develop a belief off what other (proclaimed) Christians do in life, we do not know their state, their level of maturity, or what God may be doing in their lives presently.
But, we should believe a doctrine because it is taught in scripture.

i have more questions.

ok...............[/quote:31ksfi3l]
i agree with you have said, this seemed to be taught my some large demoniations. i take issue with that, and my question was is that so?

 

[Adullam]

NT holiness is built on OT righteousness. What has been replaced is the law as a means to holiness. We receive the grace of God now to do this. This is only accomplished in Christ. God does not fill the unrighteous with His holiness. We must hold the truth IN righteousness. Those who advocate unrighteousness do not believe that repentance from dead works is a requirement to receiving the gift of The Holy Spirit.

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness? Sin separates us from God. Repentance is a work of righteousness. So we must display righteousness in order to be filled with HIS righteousness.

NT holiness is like an upper room that is built upon the main floor of OT righteousness. Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, we will be also rejected. It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself. Let the wise consider this!

 

[glorydaz]

for the record i neither lean towards eternal security or the conditional salvation that those say that you can loose your salvation.

LOL....Let me ask you this...do you believe you can ever lose your salvation?

We must be born again...

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Whosoever is born again...

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We are begotten (born) of God to an inheritance that "fadeth not away"...reserved in heaven.
We are kept by the power of God. :yes

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[jasoncran]

if one is saved then one will want to grow in christ as one must. he draws you, that new nature(spirit) wants the lord's desires.

i would thought to add that.

can one be truly saved and do these and still remain saved

murder in cold blood
deny the lord so much so that you become a athiest
be a homosexual or bisexuality(this is what i did after my sinners prayer) a few weeks later
have a reprobate spirit, see above.

commit pedophilia, and or other things.

some churches say yes, but i'm like How??????????? these all are forgiveable, but with the athiest thing it depends on how much you really knew the lord. i dont think that someone who has really tasted the lord will go that way. but for arguments sake i ask that.

 

[jasoncran]

i was raised not to accept the eternal security doctrine, but till now you all have never seem say that salvation is done by works. or appear legalistic

rare for those that dont believe in eternal security

the chruch i went to beleived that one must choose to serve the lord dialy and that he gives you the strentgh to do his will but you could refuse him in that you could ask him to leave.

for yrs i believed that, till i started visiting here and listening more openly to adrain rogers and the calvary chapel guys,

bob coy and ken graves, chuck smith and so many more

i will aslo say that the Lord is showing me things.

 

[jasoncran]

i did say i lean towards eternal security did i not.

i have and want to see the grey areas reconciled

ie moses rebelled and died for it when he disboyed the lord's comment

then theres annias and saphira, were they saved or not, if so how can one lie to the holy spirit and still love him. i think it would drive me nuts like being bi did and sitting in church thinking that i was ok.

 

[Elf]

romans 10 there isnt against the eternal security issue or for it address the jews.

I believe there is a teaching for everyone here, but Paul is addressing the Jews.

Here are a couple reasons why:

:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
He is writing (teaching) to Christians, his prayer is for their (Jews) salvation.

For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
You see, the greatest part of them sin through ignorance. Being in Judaism, they do not have the light of God's Spirit, and the guide of knowledge.

3For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
They are ignorant, meaning their natural understanding is not able to comprehend that man's true righteousness (by virtue of where they may subsist before God) is a mere gift of God in Christ, and not a work of man.
The sad part is (the Jews) they strive to maintain the dignity of their own works, and by this they have withdrawn themselves from the true obedience of Moses and the Law. Because the principle end of it was to conduct them to Christ, who alone has perfectly fulfilled it for them.

There is so much more in this passage, it is very interesting. But, I hope you got the point?

 

[jasoncran]

i see what you have said and are saying, i was saying that it should be used for the for or against eternal security arguement(directed at cornelius)

 

[Elf]

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness?

A Christians righteousness is Christ.

Sin separates us from God. Repentance is a work of righteousness. So we must display righteousness in order to be filled with HIS righteousness.

That's one road to Rome. Works based salvation.

NT holiness is like an upper room that is built upon the main floor of OT righteousness. Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, we will be also rejected.

Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees? I think you need to go back to that passage and find its meaning in context.
We cannot inject verses here and there to support our beliefs, when taken out of context.

It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself. Let the wise consider this!

Hmmmm......read this: "It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself."

 

[glorydaz]

The church is full of people who get the word choked out and become unfruitful. Notice that the parable of the seed is really about the character of the person involved. The seed is a constant. It is unwise to not realize that grace can be deceitful (to the carnally minded). It is what we do with the gift that will determine what befalls us.

It is rather easy to say to the one who loses fervency to say...he was never born again! This confuses the issue so that we deny the provision of Christ rather than our own poor performance. Christ is constant...we must learn to be, or perish. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

It isn't easy to say someone may not really be saved when he thinks he is, but it's a fact, nonetheless.
But that's why we're given so many warnings...not that we can be unsaved, but that we make sure we are saved. We need to be encouraging one another to make sure of our calling...if we are truly born again, we shall never fall.

If we trust in our own performance, then we're trusting in the wrong thing.
We need to be trusting in Christ's performance. The work of salvation is His.

Too many people have no assurance of their own salvation...they, instead, see those who have fallen by the wayside and think we can lose our salvation. What they need to be doing is making sure they are saved to begin with...then they can enter into His rest.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

[Adullam]

The church is full of people who get the word choked out and become unfruitful. Notice that the parable of the seed is really about the character of the person involved. The seed is a constant. It is unwise to not realize that grace can be deceitful (to the carnally minded). It is what we do with the gift that will determine what befalls us.

It is rather easy to say to the one who loses fervency to say...he was never born again! This confuses the issue so that we deny the provision of Christ rather than our own poor performance. Christ is constant...we must learn to be, or perish. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

It isn't easy to say someone may not really be saved when he thinks he is, but it's a fact, nonetheless.
But that's why we're given so many warnings...not that we can be unsaved, but that we make sure we are saved. We need to be encouraging one another to make sure of our calling...if we are truly born again, we shall never fall.

If we trust in our own performance, then we're trusting in the wrong thing.
We need to be trusting in Christ's performance. The work of salvation is His.

Too many people have no assurance of their own salvation...they, instead, see those who have fallen by the wayside and think we can lose our salvation. What they need to be doing is making sure they are saved to begin with...then they can enter into His rest.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

The mistake is declaring oneself saved in the first place. God will decide...not us. We must be faithful...not just exhibit faith at a certain time. A Christian no matter how spiritual is not immune from sin. We fail through passivity and smugness. We are maintained through faithfulness. Knowledge of the truth can help here. When we realize that Christianity is not just a saved club we progress. Looking down on others who fail isn't wise, either.

When you declare yourself or another "saved", you are justifying yourself through your own faith. To say the Lord saved me is fine...since it is an historic event. To say we are being saved is also fine as it removes the presumption that is preached as assurance these days. But only God justifies. He decides. He judges. Christians are not immune from God's judgment. We have a living hope...not an insurance plan. Just because modern evangelists behave like insurance salesmen does not mean they are doing right.

I find that many preach a nice Jesus saving us from a big bad God. Rather, Jesus Christ came to reconcile us with the Father. We must be tamim as God is tamim. We must exhibit righteousness in order to be saved.

Many confuse salvation with the glory that disciples are called to. But a second floor must have a ground floor to support it. So it is with NT holiness being built upon OT righteousness.

Many need to return to school on this.

 

[glorydaz]

Does "Judge not lest you be judged" become obsolete with the advent of Christ?

Do you feel I'm judging you by asking you to provide scripture?
I apologize if that's what you thought I was doing.

We're told to prove all things...holding fast to that which is good.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

We're to question those things that speak counter to the Word of God.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

There is a righteous judgment...as we test and try the spirits.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

[jasoncran]

if we could save ourselves by works, then why the cross? if works does it we cant make it.

 

[Adullam]

There is a reason why there seems to be as many verses that seem to promote OSAS as condemn it. This is because we have 2 different natures (as Christians). One needs to stay down, the other needs to be uplifted and edified. We must let the truth hit us in the right places....not dragging down one verse to seemingly support another.

Those who promote a blanket OSAS are not being honest about the content of the bible.

 

[Adullam]

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness?

A Christians righteousness is Christ.

So a man sins the same way as before but he is now justified????

Sin separates us from God. Repentance is a work of righteousness. So we must display righteousness in order to be filled with HIS righteousness.

That's one road to Rome. Works based salvation.

Are you denying that repentance is a good work?

[quote:39fy8en4]NT holiness is like an upper room that is built upon the main floor of OT righteousness. Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, we will be also rejected.

Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees? I think you need to go back to that passage and find its meaning in context.
We cannot inject verses here and there to support our beliefs, when taken out of context.

You are assuming that man cannot anything right on any level. So Jesus was actually condemning the "good" Samaritan because He wasn't Christian. Think a bit about this. Do good works done outside of Christ persecute Christ????

It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself. Let the wise consider this!

Hmmmm......read this: "It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself."[/quote:39fy8en4]

 

[jasoncran]

whose righteousness needs to exceed the pharisees. ours or his(christs). paul claimed i do that which i dont want to do and dont do what i should do.

read the next verses and then comment.

if we could do it then why the cross?
if its on us for salvation then what.
i never was taught that version of disbelief in eternal security. we accepted grace and mercy. and knew that only christ could do it. it was that we Could walk away and not repent and by that we could loose salvation. we choose not to serve, but if we repent we were forgiven and cleansed, that wasnt an easy step to get that hard hearted but rather a gradual process.

 

[Adullam]

We have downgraded holiness to something that we can do as believers. Common righteousness is churchified into being holiness. We have thus eliminated righteousness in non-believers so we can judge them and call them heathen. We downgrade anything that non-believers can do as evil. We JUDGE OTHERS. We justify ourselves. Meanwhile many are more righteous than we in many cases. We are taught to squat on righteousness. We don't believe in good...only evil. This gnosis leads to our justification...or so we think!

What if we were to walk as Jesus walked...above the law and sin? What if we could actually cause others to repent by our holy lives? What if we walked as if God were really present within us???

So Jesus would say...unless your righteousness exceeds that of the average Christian, you will not enter the kingdom.

 

[jasoncran]

can we walk in total perfection? we can try , and we should.
but we will never make it.

is one who lived holy for one year and wasnt delieverd from some sins more saved then one who lives a 100 yrs and has been delivered from some sins, and yet has some sins that need to be addressed.

is the process of santification instantaneous.

did you stop all your sins immedialtely when you repented. maybe for a while, but i bet that you struggled with some and others you gave up.

are perfect immediately upon salvation? or when we first repented, or when. is their sin even now in your life, if so repent, then what about those you will make tommorow and the next day and the next day.

is that nature and desire to sin, just gone when you repented at the cross or is still there.