Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[Cornelius]

Still waiting for you lose-its to deal with these verses - I've dealt with most of yours:
Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7

2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24

3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

Paul deals with all of your statements in one verse :

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

 

[Elf]

Hi Bunyan

You asked "Are you still living under the law? Where is the grace?

duval, I believe that was me who asked that.

No sir, I live not under the law and as far as "grace" is concerned Paul asked: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" Rom.6:1.

It looks to me you don't have any solid foundation as far as applying scripture, I pity you if you enter a debate with a Roman Catholic.

You also said: "You say God knows who will believe and sends those to Christ------." I have NEVER said that.

Maby I mixed up the poster who said that with you, sorry.

Now about doubt. Didn't James say something about the man who doubts? He is like the wave of the sea! And James concluded "let not that man think he will receive anything from God."

This would take some time to help you understand the meanings of these passages, it is not as you suggest as far as one loosing their salvation. I would have no problem helping you through these but I believe it would probably be for nothing since you seem convinced already.

And what about the man of whom Paul spoke who was DAMNED because he ate without faith??

Scripture please?

Remember I asked what about the consedquences of losing ones' assurance and and you answered among other things he would doubt. I suggested that doubt raises the question of loss of some faith or belief. Can that kind of loss of faith retain the "position" of which you affirm? If so, how much loss of faith will it take?

It wasn't me who asked this.

 

[glorydaz]

Biblical salvation is not a child's plaything. It is serious business. The modern church is very superficial and falls short in many regards of the standard required to be pleasing to God. We please ourselves, rather, and claim to be justified by our own faith. We do what we are warned not to do...and are satisfied.

We should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. This is the way of wisdom.

I agree the modern church falls short. The standard for salvation, though, is not "pleasing God". We are saved while we are yet sinners. We aren't justified by our faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ. He alone sees our heart. He does the saving, and He does the keeping.

When you read the verse that follows your quote, you will see it is "God which worketh in you".

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

How do we "work out" our own salvation? We hear...

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

We believe...

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

We repent...

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

But we can not, nor should we claim to have any part in our salvation.

 

[Elf]

hebrews 6 is interesting on this subject.

if you lose your salvation you can never get it back.

So thank God we cant loose it then.

 

[Adullam]

Still waiting for you lose-its to deal with these verses - I've dealt with most of yours:
Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7
When we judge others and do not forgive them
2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24
When we return to the previous condition of rebellion.
3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13
When we block out the voice of God in our hearts. (A heart can even do it's own bypass around a blocked vein)

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

When we run away and deny Him. If you deny Me I will also deny you.

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6
When we walk in our own ways

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

When we mix what is holy with the world

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

When we fall short of His glory

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

We remain sealed for the judgment seat of Christ. The verdict is pending.

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

When we follow after unrighteousness.

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

When we curse others.

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

When we take up our old lives again.

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

When we follow dead works.

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

When we walk in unbelief.

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

When we exchange the truth of God for a lie.

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

When we deny the power of God while keeping up appearances.

 

[jasoncran]

for the record i neither lean towards eternal security or the conditional salvation that those say that you can loose your salvation.

 

[glorydaz]

Interesting thoughts, all. Is God really saying to us "don't worry, be happy?" Which kind of wisdom is that?

Is the lack of fear of the Lord truly assurance? Has God changed His character or rather, has the means to achieve the law changed? Are we to be unrighteous so that Jesus can be our righteousness? Does our sin put Jesus in business??????

Who, but an unbeliever, would ever claim they can freely sin?
Those who have been born again would never even consider such a thing.

We have been filled with the Holy Spirit...we are new creatures...our hearts have been circumcised...we have the mind of Christ. No born again believer fits the picture you paint. We know the mighty God we serve, and I don't believe it's possible for any child of God's to remain standing when coming into the presence of the Almighty. I do so wish people would stop confusing the body of Christ with the unbelievers.

Everyone born of God would do no less than the Apostle that Jesus loved...

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

 

[Elf]

hebrews 6 is interesting on this subject.
if you lose your salvation you can never get it back.

You have it backwards. If a person who was enlightened falls away, that one cannot be renewed again to repentance. The implication is that we turn to Christ and never turn away from Him. As Jesus said...all who look back, after turning away from the old lives....are not worthy of Him.

Interesting, you just confirmed what "jasoncran" said.

You said: "If a person who was enlightened falls away, that one cannot be renewed again to repentance."

I agree with this as I am pretty sure jason does also.

To be enlightened is to have heard God's word (the gospel), but it has not penetrated as far as to transform and regenerate him (considering Hebrews 6), as the elect are.

So, they have heard the message of the gospel (enlightened), but instead of accepting it and believing they turn their back on it. Therefore they are not transformed and regenerated, simply not saved.

Lets not add to scripture.

 

[Elf]

Biblical salvation is not a child's plaything. It is serious business. The modern church is very superficial and falls short in many regards of the standard required to be pleasing to God. We please ourselves, rather, and claim to be justified by our own faith. We do what we are warned not to do...and are satisfied.

We should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. This is the way of wisdom.

That's a whole other subject.

 

[Elf]

for the record i neither lean towards eternal security or the conditional salvation that those say that you can loose your salvation.

What is your position then?

 

[jasoncran]

hebrews 6 is interesting on this subject.
if you lose your salvation you can never get it back.

You have it backwards. If a person who was enlightened falls away, that one cannot be renewed again to repentance. The implication is that we turn to Christ and never turn away from Him. As Jesus said...all who look back, after turning away from the old lives....are not worthy of Him.

Interesting, you just confirmed what "jasoncran" said.

You said: "If a person who was enlightened falls away, that one cannot be renewed again to repentance."

I agree with this as I am pretty sure jason does also.

To be enlightened is to have heard God's word (the gospel), but it has not penetrated as far as to transform and regenerate him (considering Hebrews 6), as the elect are.

So, they have heard the message of the gospel (enlightened), but instead of accepting it and believing they turn their back on it. Therefore they are not transformed and regenerated, simply not saved.

Lets not add to scripture.

that is true,if you take it too meant those have been saved and have sinned again and by that salvation is lost if they dont repent. then it's impossible to regain salvation.

 

[jasoncran]

this is my poistion, while lean slightly to the eternal security side of the house, i see some flaws with that thought. ie some chrurches that you can have salvation without having open fellowship and growth in the lord.

if that aint there either you didnt repent or, the eternal security thing is false.
if you are saved you will want to be with christ as he is your daddy, and if we love our parents on the earth, how much more so when the Lord forgives us and adopts us.

i have more questions.

 

[glorydaz]

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

And there are those who rely on their own faith instead of the faith of Jesus.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

These are not born again believers...

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

But we are kept by the power of God...

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[jasoncran]

romans 10 there isnt against the eternal security issue or for it address the jews.

 

[glorydaz]

There is a lot of emphasis put on being born again! This is a good start! :P But we must also grow into fulness. To whom much is given, much is required. All men will be judged by their works. Even children are known by their behaviour.

The servant who buried his talent represents a born again believer who never progressed. He buried his gift of grace (talent ). Such a one is rejected. What God gives us is a gift. We take no credit for that. What we do with that gift determines our destiny. The gospel is about maturity, growth, and character. There IS a race to run and win. :yes

The servant who buried his talent does not represent a born again believer.
The talent is the Word of God...just like the seed sown on rocky ground. Instead of trading with the talent that he was given, instead of putting the Word to work, he buried it, that is, he despised it, ignored it, and treated it with contempt.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

 

[glorydaz]

We were reconciled by His death, but we are saved by His life.
We must be born again...raised into newness of life.
Some never get that far...the gate is narrow.
"Romans 5:10"]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Granted!

But, it isn't just the beginning of the walk that is narrow...but also the continuance of the walk.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Being born again of the Spirit is the gate. That is just the beginning. But the way must also be of the Spirit. This is the ongoing walk into full maturity. Those who put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit will live. Those who live according to the flesh (though they may have experienced the new birth) will die. If we are alive in the Spirit then we should also walk in the Spirit. Remember the foolish Galatians. We must be wise.

Let's look at that, shall we?

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

We strive to enter...

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

When we enter in we shall find rest...His yoke is easy, and His burden is light....because He lives to intercede for us.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Those who "live according to the flesh" are not born again believers.
This is not a condition, it is a fact. Those who are in Christ are freed from the law of sin and death.
In no way does that say we will never sin...all men sin and come short. But we are freed from the law and are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Two laws...two sets of people.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

[glorydaz]

Paul deals with all of your statements in one verse :

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

No, brother. That does not deal with all the verses posted. Which are not his "statements", by the way, but the Word of God. The branches were broken of for unbelief. This is speaking of the nation of Israel, who were not saved people. The gentiles will not be spared for unbelief, either.

Maybe you should address the scriptures given instead of brushing them off with one verse that does not even mean what you imply. :yes

 

[glorydaz]

Still waiting for you lose-its to deal with these verses - I've dealt with most of yours:
Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7
When we judge others and do not forgive them
2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24
When we return to the previous condition of rebellion.
3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13
When we block out the voice of God in our hearts. (A heart can even do it's own bypass around a blocked vein)

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

When we run away and deny Him. If you deny Me I will also deny you.

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6
When we walk in our own ways

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

When we mix what is holy with the world

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

When we fall short of His glory

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

We remain sealed for the judgment seat of Christ. The verdict is pending.

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

When we follow after unrighteousness.

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

When we curse others.

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

When we take up our old lives again.

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

When we follow dead works.

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

When we walk in unbelief.

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

When we exchange the truth of God for a lie.

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

When we deny the power of God while keeping up appearances.

A lot of good statements, but no scripture to back them up that say anyone will lose their salvation.

 

[jasoncran]

#7 when we fall short of his glory. then i guess no one can be saved and stay saved, as that why the Lord had to come. for all have fallen short. we cant do it ourselves.

the problem i see with the counter to eternal security is this

lets say you speed and then you hit someone and die, where will you rest? you have sinned and didnt repent. in hell or heaven?

each day our salvation is what new and fresh as we never sin or need to repent for that lust or other sin that we seem to have commited.

 

[Adullam]

There is a lot of emphasis put on being born again! This is a good start! :P But we must also grow into fulness. To whom much is given, much is required. All men will be judged by their works. Even children are known by their behaviour.

The servant who buried his talent represents a born again believer who never progressed. He buried his gift of grace (talent ). Such a one is rejected. What God gives us is a gift. We take no credit for that. What we do with that gift determines our destiny. The gospel is about maturity, growth, and character. There IS a race to run and win. :yes

The servant who buried his talent does not represent a born again believer.
The talent is the Word of God...just like the seed sown on rocky ground. Instead of trading with the talent that he was given, instead of putting the Word to work, he buried it, that is, he despised it, ignored it, and treated it with contempt.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The church is full of people who get the word choked out and become unfruitful. Notice that the parable of the seed is really about the character of the person involved. The seed is a constant. It is unwise to not realize that grace can be deceitful (to the carnally minded). It is what we do with the gift that will determine what befalls us.

It is rather easy to say to the one who loses fervency to say...he was never born again! This confuses the issue so that we deny the provision of Christ rather than our own poor performance. Christ is constant...we must learn to be, or perish. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.