Edward
2024 Supporter
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Losing Salvation after getting saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
Hi Brother Butch5, have at it; I'll bite.
But beware, I know how you dudes from the south will attempt to convince others that people catch catfish by a process they call noodling. I look forward to your thoughts on being cast off. Thanks.
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Yeah it's me that doesn't understand what is clearly stated here.
It's not reffering to those who are saved, and have been granted the the ability to enter the Holiest BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS, it's really refferring to those of Judaism!!!
LOL!!!
It though I had heard it all!!
Butch5
Member
By cast off I mean no longer in the covenant and lost.
Butch5
Member
Hi Brother Butch5, have at it; I'll bite.
But beware, I know how you dudes from the south will attempt to convince others that people catch catfish by a process they call noodling. I look forward to your thoughts on being cast off. Thanks.
Hi Eugene,
Actually, I'm not a from the south, I'm a transplant. I'm actually from Phila, Pa. I've also never caught catfish by noodling. its' always been with rod and reel, lol.
By cast off I simple mean one who was in a covenant with God and in the end is not, one who is lost.
Yes, none of the Scriptures actually say what is being claimed.
Again, there are NO verses that say this. Your claim is unsupported by Scripture.
Context, please. That would be v.12a "IF we endure, we WILL reign with Him". The denial, in context, is reigning with Christ, not gaining or maintaining salvation.
Where are the words that SAY that salvation comes from on-going faith, or that salvation can be lost? I don't see any.
Of course not. Always look at context. In Rom 12:26, the context is the Second Coming. I have no doubt that when Jesus Christ lands on the Mount of Olives, every Jew will realize that He is the Messiah. At that time, all Israel will be saved. If one doesn't like that explanation, Rom 12:26 refers to the fact that Jesus Christ delivers Israel from all their enemies, who have surrounded Israel in an attempt to wipe them out. The word "saved" refers to physical deliverance, if one doesn't want to accept that all Jews will recognize Christ as the Messiah when He returns.
So, 2 possibilities.
Absolutely!! Rom 2:9 applies to everyone: Tribulation and anguish, upon every soulof man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Nothing to be sorry about, other than misunderstanding Scripture. v.26 says there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. v.18 says the same thing. What was the writer's point? Because of the sacrifice of Christ, ALL sin of ALL people has been atoned for. The problem addressed by the writer was the Jewish believers who were returning to animal sacrifice for atonement because they were being persecuted for their faith. Christ is our Atonement.
There is no teaching from Scripture about loss of salvation. Simply none. The warning passages are about loss of blessings in time and reward in eternity. Why is that idea so difficult to accept?
Jethro Bodine
Member
The whole counsel of scripture is that you will not see the Lord if you are not holy (set apart) and blameless.
"14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. " (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)
Now be careful. Don't be adding to what it actually says.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Tell that to the unmerciful servant in Matthew 18:23-35 NASB. You can find him in prison cell D, for 'damned'. He'll be there a while. He can't get out until he can pay the debt that was once forgiven by the king, but which was reinstated when he treated the king's gracious forgiveness with careless contempt.
(
OSAS brain busy working to figure out how to frustrate the plain words of the passage to make it not say what it so plainly says.....perhaps redefine a few terms, create doubt around plain statements.......)That idea contradicts many verses that teach that eternal life is received when one believes in Christ. It's not about how we live our lives, but what Christ did for us, which we must accept by faith.
The verse in Hebrews refers to the command to be Christ-like, the main point of all the epistles. Unless believers are Christ-like, no one else will "see the Lord". When the world cannot "see Christ" in believers, we have failed to comply with Scripture.
"14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. " (Hebrews 12:14 NASB)
Now be careful. Don't be adding to what it actually says.[/QUOTE]
I suggest the same thing for you. The "no one" does not refer back to the addressees. It refers to those around us.
How can the world "see Christ"? Only when believers are Christ-like.
Paul said this: My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. Gal 4:19
Unless and until believers become Christ-like (Christ formed in us), no one will see the Lord.
We "see the Lord" when believers are being Christ-like.
You have changed the very meaning of Heb 12:14.
Are you basing your theology on this one passage? It was a parable, and not about loss of salvation.
Eternal life is received when one believes in Christ.
That is not what is in dispute.
It is what happens to a believer, when the believer stops believing.
A believer who no longer believes is an unbeliever!
According to OSAS doctrine, a believer that stops believing is still a believer, and still remains saved.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:7-8
15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Titus 1:15
Notice here it says they profess to know Him, but IN WORKS they deny Him.
OSAS says that there is nothing a believer does, but believe once and has gained eternal life forever.
I wonder what Paul would say to that?
JLB
I know that.
No, because those who HAVE believed have BECOME a child of God, possessing eternal life. I keep asking for any verses that clearly state that one's salvation can be lost, and I've seen none yet. I cannot believe what the Bible does not state.
Because there are NO verses that state your view; that those who stop believing stop being saved. The error in that view is that salvation isn't a process, or on-going action, like a dripping faucet. Jn 5:24 is clear: those who believe ARE saved, HAVE passed from death to life, and WILL NOT come into judgment.
You have not dealt with the fact that once a child of God, ALWAYS a child of God. Yes, children CAN rebel against their parents, and believers can rebel against God. And God has a plan for that. It's called divine discipline. Rom 2:9 applies to them. Whether you see their suffering or not. It's not your business, in fact, to judge whether a wayward believer is suffering. God is totally in charge.
And, 2 Cor 5:10 is clear enough: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Where do you see loss of salvation in this verse? Or any other, for that matter.
When the Bible speaks of "unbelievers", it means those who have never believed.
You are aware, I hope, that whenever you or I sin, we have in essence denied Him as Lord.
Actually, the Bible never states the opposite, so there is no reason to believe your view.
Again, you have failed to deal with the fact that once a child of God, ALWAYS a child of God. Can that be refuted?
He would agree.
God is our Father, and He holds us in His hands. There are no verses that teach that He will let go of those children who become disobedient. But there are many passages that teach that He WILL discipline them. Rom 2:9, Heb 12.
No one gets away with anything. And neither you nor I are the judge of those believers who misbehave.
In fact, James deals with this in 5:19-20. It's not talking about evangelism. It's about restoring the wayward believer.
19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Just as Gal 6:1 deals with the same thing: Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.