Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Losing Salvation after getting saved?

Because Jesus understood how it works. The believe has the promise of Eternal life, he has the Spirit in him. Paul told the Ephesians that the the Holy Spirit was the down payment on their inheritance. He also said that it is by the Holy Spirit that God will raise the believer.
Exactly! This down payment is the GUARANTEE of salvation. How so? Because Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would be with us forever. And there is no teaching in the NT that any believer can lose or forfeit the Holy Spirit. Yes, we can grieve and quench Him, but not lose Him. Jesus promised.

Eternal life has everything to do with physical life, physical life is the only kind of life there is.
As Jesus told the Sadducees, "you're badly mistaken." Paul said this in 1 Cor 15:42 - So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body

Our bodies all go to the grave and disintegrate. When Jesus comes and resurrects the dead, they are given NEW resurrection bodies, far superior to our former dwelling.

From God's perspective a believer can have eternal life yet not be in possession of it. We see the same this with Jesus' words.
You're just making this stuff up.
 
A born again Christian is neither Jew nor Greek.
Please explain how a born again believer can become UNborn. Seems no one of your persuasion wants to tackle that.

Or do you think that God will cast His own children into the second DEATH, you know, the ones He GAVE ETERNAL LIFE to? That would be quite weird.
 
What OSAS would have us believe, is there was never any seed planted at all in the heart of those who believed for a while.

OSAS teaches that at no time was the seed ever planted in the ground.

The ground remained in the same condition as those planted by the wayside or never planted at all.
To be clear, that is the teaching of either Lordship Salvation theology or Calvinism. While both maintain OSAS, their views on Luke 8 are wrong. So please identify the actual group that teaches error.

The teaching that the one who has believed is secure forever is Biblical, as I've proven, yet none of the Arminians are willing to tackle it.
Jesus described a different condition.

He described a condition whereby there was seed planted and received.

That represents believing. That represents having another life growing in the heart of the one who received the seed and believed.
Let's unpack this a little more. There were 4 soils, right? From each soil upon the "seed" (Word of God) fell, how many soils produced plants from those seeds?

The problem with the OSAS doctrine is: It teaches there was never any plant ever growing at all, that the ground never had any change to it but remained as if nothing ever got planted in it at all, just like the ground that had seeds that fell by the wayside and never sprouted.
Again, LS and reformed theology are in error when they teach this.

They believed for a while, means they were saved for a while.
No it doesn't. Jesus said they fell away from their faith. The text is very clear. Jesus didn't mention salvation in v.13. His point from v.12 is that those who believe in a point in time (aorist tense) ARE saved. And He didn't say anyone fell away from salvation. They quit believing, meaning they fell away from believing.

But your bias is so strong, it won't allow you to see the obvious meaning here.

PLUS, you won't interact with your problem of the new birth. How does a believer who ceases to believe become UNborn? Please explain that one.
 
OK. Did. Where is there ANY mention of loss of salvation.
What is it about being sanctified by the blood of Christ, and then not having a sacrifice for sin and being damned with the enemies of God that you don't understand?

Until Arminians stop treating salvation like some kind of object that can be lost, returned, forfeited, etc, they just won't understand that salvation is a CONDITION, not an object.
Salvation is a condition that you will remain in IF you continue to believe in that which got you into that saved condition in the first place. Very simple. Very logical.

The condition is this: regenerated, born again, new birth, child of God.
...IF you have faith in Christ, and IF you continue in that faith. You have failed to show that you do not have to continue in faith to continue to be saved. You didn't even touch the scriptures I posted that support the argument.

Please explain how any of these conditions can be reversed and is shown to be so in Scripture if faith ceases.
How? Through a trampling of the blood of Christ that sanctified you. How are you not getting this? The passage plainly says everything that you're demanding to be shown.
 
Free grace said -

The text is clear enough. What they fell away from was their faith. No indication of salvation. That is pure speculation.

On the contrary what is mentioned is being saved.

Believe = saved

There are two elements involved here.

The condition required for salvation to be obtained, which is believing.

When believing is employed then the person has now obtained the substance of the thing hoped for, salvation.

If the condition required for salvation no longer exists then that which was obtained by believing no longer exists.

JLB
 
Hebrews 4:1 (LEB) Therefore let us fear, while there remains a promise of entering into his rest, that none of you appear to fall short of it.

In this verse, sure, Hebrews means by "His rest" as in the New Kingdom, New Jerusalem, New -Salem, New- peace. That's why I wasn't sure which rest you meant. Hebrews is obviously making an analogy between a future rest to the rest of the promised land that housed Israel (historically) for all those years. (Not exactly peacefully, BTW, then or now). Only brief periods of peace that matched with their seldom periods of proper worship, amazingly. I wonder why! The history of wars and change in control over Jerusalem (city of God's peace) is rather astounding. There's no other city like it.

I have no problem fearing now either, while I wait. Not my salvation, but my Father's discipline sure. I know what God's discipline can do to me as evidenced by those that died in the wilderness, etc. And I know what He's promised me as well. And I know what He's told me I posses already. And I know the partnership he's given me.

I, as a Son and partner with Christ, am holding to a promise of God's in the future and a Possession, Seal and Guarantee. So acting like a non-son (a Hell-raiser and idolator) certainly appears to fall short of my role, sure. I'd expect loving discipline from my Father, training me in the right way too. Yet a divorce??? God hates divorce. No way. Again, I do not disagree with Heb 4:1.

Is there another verse in there that you think proves anti-OSAS? I don't get it.

Paul didn't tell them to fear discipline, he told them to fear falling short of entering that rest, which you just admitted is the kingdom. If they can fall short of entering that rest (which you just admitted is the kingdom) then OSAS cannot be a Biblical doctrine. He said the Gospel was preached to us as well as to them. Both heard the same Gospel and Paul concludes that some must enter in and says,

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: (Heb 4:6 KJV)

It was the same Gospel and the same promise that was given to both, yet he says those to whom it was first preached did not enter in. Those in the wilderness were promised the Land that God promised to Abraham, the believer is promised the land promised to Abraham. Those in the wilderness didn't enter in, however, their children did under Joshua and Caleb and they inherited the Land.

7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it. (Deu 31:7 KJV)

So, those to whom it was first promised didn't enter in because of unbelief. Paul concludes that since Joshua didn't give them rest there remains a promise of entering that rest. That rest that remains is the believer entering into the Promised Land, the very same land that Joshua took the Israelites into. That's why Paul says it's the same promise to both groups. God promised the land to Abraham and his Seed and Paul says in Galatians 3 that the Seed is Christ.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16 KJV)

He goes on to conclude,

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:27-29 KJV)

He says that those who have been baptized into Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. The inheritance is the land that was promised to Abraham. It comes to the Gentiles through Christ, Paul said,

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal 3:11-14 KJV)

The phrase the "Blessing of Abraham" only appears twice in Scripture. Here, Paul says it comes to the Gentile through Christ. We can see what this blessing is by going back to Genesis and looking at what Paul is referring to.

KJV Genesis 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; {a multitude...: Heb. an assembly of people}
4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. (Gen 28:1-4 KJV)

The "Blessing of Abraham" is the land that was promised to Abraham, and Paul said that blessing comes to the Gentile through faith in Christ. That's the inheritance that awaits the believer. The believer will inherit the land that was promised to Abraham, as Paul said, 'if children then heirs and co-heirs with Christ'.

So, it's the same promise from the same Gospel and Paul draws this comparison to show that some of those who were in a covenant relationship with God didn't enter in to the Promised Land and he warns his readers who are in a covenant relationship with God to make sure that they don't come short of entering into that rest, the Promised Land.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Heb 4:11 KJV)


Yes, divorce.

6 The LORD said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: "Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot.
7 "And I said, after she had done all these things,`Return to Me.' But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.
9 "So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees.
10 "And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to Me with her whole heart, but in pretense," says the LORD.
11 Then the LORD said to me, "Backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah.
12 "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say:`Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD;`I will not cause My anger to fall on you. For I am merciful,' says the LORD;`I will not remain angry forever.
13 Only acknowledge your iniquity, That you have transgressed against the LORD your God, And have scattered your charms To alien deities under every green tree, And you have not obeyed My voice,' says the LORD.
14 "Return, O backsliding children," says the LORD; "for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
15 "And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding. (Jer 3:6-15 NKJ)

Paul said the things that were written were written for our learning. God divorced Israel for her adultery, even though they were His covenant people. If he would divorce those covenant people for adultery there's no reason He wouldn't divorce the New Covenant people for the same reason.
 
Last edited:
Correct, but these were letters to the church as a whole. Timothy ministered also to Jewish Christians in the churches. Paul wrote to Timothy to encourage him in his responsibility for overseeing the work of the Ephesian church and possibly the other churches in the province of Asia (1 Timothy 1:3). This letter lays the foundation for ordaining elders (1 Timothy 3:1-7), and provides guidance for ordaining people into offices of the church (1 Timothy 3:8-13). In essence, 1 Timothy is a leadership manual for church organization and administration.

We're not making any progress so I guess i'll just have to disagree.
 
Exactly! This down payment is the GUARANTEE of salvation. How so? Because Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would be with us forever. And there is no teaching in the NT that any believer can lose or forfeit the Holy Spirit. Yes, we can grieve and quench Him, but not lose Him. Jesus promised.

You're misunderstanding the word "guarantee". In the sense of a down payment the word doesn't mean something will definitely happen. It means a pledge to to pay the full amount.


As Jesus told the Sadducees, "you're badly mistaken." Paul said this in 1 Cor 15:42 - So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body

Our bodies all go to the grave and disintegrate. When Jesus comes and resurrects the dead, they are given NEW resurrection bodies, far superior to our former dwelling.

Think about what you're saying. If you get a new (different) body that is reincarnation not resurrection. It is the same body you have now that will be resurrected. That body, for the believer will live forever.



You're just making this stuff up.

I gave you 2 passages of Scripture that plainly state it.
 
You're confusing relationship with fellowship. Consider the parent-child relationship. I'm talking about birth parent here. That is a relationship that cannot be broken or changed in any way. Yet, there can obviously be broken fellowship in that relationship. In fact, Jesus gave us a clear example; the prodigal son. He was a son at the beginning of the parable, while he was sitting in a pig sty, and when he returned to the father. The point of the parable is that he broke FELLOWSHIP with his father, and left him. When the father said "my son is dead", he was referring to FELLOWSHIP, not physical or spiritual death. There was no fellowship. Yet, the father continued to look for the return of his son. While in the sty, the son "came to his senses" and confessed his sin, and repented of it by getting out of the sty and going home. When he did that, the FELLOWSHIP was restored. And all the while, he was still his father's son.

Please comment on this.

I already commented on it. It's speaking of Israel, Israel is the prodigal son.
 
FreeGrace

The Bible tells us that we must persevere in our faith to the end to 1) have the full assurance of what we hope for, and 2) to inherit the promises:

"...we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience (the persevering of faith) inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6:11-12 NASB parenthesis mine)

Now you will say that all it's saying is that if we don't show the same diligence of holiness, and don't patiently persevere in faith to the end, we will only lose out on rewards of inheritance, not on salvation itself. But I showed you in Revelation that there is no salvation outside of the inheritance, the New Jerusalem, and that unholy people will be outside of the inheritance (Revelation 21:27 NASB), and who's "part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 NASB), not in some kind of middle ground between damnation and the inheritance.

It is indeed absolutely necessary that the one who believes continue in that faith to the very end in order to lay hold of the hope that faith secures.
 
Paul didn't tell them to fear discipline, he told them to fear falling short of entering that rest, which you just admitted is the kingdom. If they can fall short of entering that rest (which you just admitted is the kingdom) then OSAS cannot be a Biblical doctrine.
...
Yes, divorce.

... I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; ...:`Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD;`I will not cause My anger to fall on you. For I am merciful,' says the LORD;`I will not remain angry forever....
14 "Return, O backsliding children," says the LORD; "for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
15 "And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding. (Jer 3:6-15 NKJ)

Thanks for your extensive time/effort here. This type of interaction is where I find value in these debates. Hopefully you will too. There's two broad points/topics I'd like to address quickly, however, prior to spending more time if it's desired. We'll see where it leads (what's your rebuttal so to speak to these observations):

1. WRT "Paul didn't tell them to fear discipline, he told them to fear falling short of entering that rest, which you just admitted is the kingdom." there are several Technically inaccurate conclusions you make:
A. Hebrews cannot be proven to be Paul's letter.
B. Hebrews literally says "Therefore let us fear __?__...
1) So already you missed that the author includes himself in this verse. It says let us fear __?__, not them. No big deal, I suppose, on either the author or who is included in the fear, but I like to stay strictly to the text as much as possible (see related comment about 'divorce' below).
2) The verse is there for a reason. Yes, it's about The Kingdom. But it follows on the heals of the previous rest's example. These two rest's cannot be entirely separated just because the rest in 4:1 is The Kingdom. Ch 3, is 'there for' chapter 4's point. You didn't respond to the points I clarified from 3:14. Do you now see my point about being "partners with Christ"? Which by the way, the author included himself in that verse too. So they relate.
3) and most importantly it DOES NOT say; "fear falling short of entering that rest". It quite literally simply and merely says "fear __?__, while there remains a promise..." You assume the author means fear falling short of entering that rest". Whereas I see a huge conflict with that assumption. Namely, in the same breath he says "while there remains a promise of entering His rest (kingdom rest)". How can one be fearful of falling short of the kingdom while there remains a Great Promise of it? It's illogical. Who, by the way, The Great Promise, is a partner with us while we wait (from 3:14a)
4) and what's the purpose for this fear anyway? Hebrews tells us the purpose for this fear:
So "that none of you appear to fall short of it." Appearing to fall short is technically different than actually falling short. Appearances are not always accurate, however. The Pharisees 'appeared' to be acting right. Take Moses and Aaron falling in the wilderness, for example, too. It might 'appear' that they fell short of The Kingdom because they fell short of the promised land, but did they really? No.

And just quickly for why I'd say 'discipline' fills in the blank as to what should be feared. The previous example of the discipline that Israel experienced on their way to and even after entering their promised land is what should be feared. Our promise is Christ, our new found partner, however.

2. WRT 'divorce' again technically:
A. God put them away and issued them a "certificate of divorce" yet still pleaded with them to return to Him (still does, and it's prophesied to occur so I think it will) and said He was still married to them.
B. technically verse 8 clarifies they "were not afraid" and committed adultery, yet their Father/Master/Husband still loved them anyway.
C. Technically Jer 3 starts at verse 1 with how a man would never take back a divorced wife who marries another, then goes on to demonstrate how God's love for Israel is superior to that of a mere man's love. Yes, He allows them the freedom to choose another and even the paperwork to make it legal for them to do it. Yet still considers Himself married to them after the certificate was given and their "loyal Master" or as the KJV says "O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you" (v. 11, 14). Did you read those verses? What do they demonstrate to you?

This is exactly why I think believers being partners with The Lord from Heb 3:14 needs to be taken into account.

And it also supports what I've been saying all along. The more you look into these verses or phrases that people are pointing to for anti -OSAS proof, the more assured of OSAS you come away. But you must look and consider both sides.
 
Please explain how a born again believer can become UNborn. Seems no one of your persuasion wants to tackle that.

Or do you think that God will cast His own children into the second DEATH, you know, the ones He GAVE ETERNAL LIFE to? That would be quite weird.



None of my post's have mentioned such a thing as unborn.

Why even say such a thing?

I have already presented scripture that shows that sons of God were cast down to hell.

Sons of God... 2 Peter 2:4.

JLB
 
None of my post's have mentioned such a thing as unborn.

Why even say such a thing?

I have already presented scripture that shows that sons of God were cast down to hell.

Sons of God... 2 Peter 2:4.

JLB

This is not talking about children of God, it is referring to the ungodly, unrighteous nonbelievers.

2 Peter 2:4-9 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,a putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment
 
JLB It's speaking about false prophets and teachers, ungodly, unrighteous nonbelievers. And we all know what happens to them..

2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
What is it about being sanctified by the blood of Christ, and then not having a sacrifice for sin and being damned with the enemies of God that you don't understand?
Besides ignoring my question, nothing. I understand it all.

Salvation is a condition that you will remain in IF you continue to believe in that which got you into that saved condition in the first place. Very simple. Very logical.
So, still needing to ignore the condition of being BORN AGAIN. Your view destroys the whole concept of the new birth and being a new creation.

...IF you have faith in Christ, and IF you continue in that faith.
You guys keep repeating your mantra as if it will somehow and suddenly be true. Again, you have zero verses to support that opinion.

You have failed to show that you do not have to continue in faith to continue to be saved. You didn't even touch the scriptures I posted that support the argument.
I did. The issue is that the one who believes is BORN AGAIN, and a CHILD OF GOD. So show me any verse that reverses those changes if one ceases to believe. Problem is, you can't do that.

How? Through a trampling of the blood of Christ that sanctified you. How are you not getting this? The passage plainly says everything that you're demanding to be shown.
Nope. Not even close. You're not even willing to address regeneration and being a child of God.
 
On the contrary what is mentioned is being saved.

Believe = saved

There are two elements involved here.

The condition required for salvation to be obtained, which is believing.

When believing is employed then the person has now obtained the substance of the thing hoped for, salvation.

If the condition required for salvation no longer exists then that which was obtained by believing no longer exists.

JLB
When are you going to deal with the problem of being a child of God? Either God has to reverse that, which cannot be shown from Scripture, or He tosses His own children into the lake of fire. Some Father, huh.
 
You're misunderstanding the word "guarantee". In the sense of a down payment the word doesn't mean something will definitely happen. It means a pledge to to pay the full amount.
I'd say the problem of misunderstanding is all yours, not mine.

From the internet:
n. noun
  1. Something that assures a particular outcome or condition.
    Lack of interest is a guarantee of failure.
  2. A promise or assurance, especially one given in writing, that attests to the quality or durability of a product or service.
  3. A pledge that something will be performed in a specified manner.
tr.v.
  1. To assume responsibility for the debt, default, or miscarriage of
  2. To assume responsibility for the quality or performance of.
    guarantee a product.
  3. To undertake to do, accomplish, or ensure (something) for another.

    Kinda embarrassing, huh. ;)
Think about what you're saying. If you get a new (different) body that is reincarnation not resurrection. It is the same body you have now that will be resurrected. That body, for the believer will live forever.
I guess you ignored 1 Cor 15.

I gave you 2 passages of Scripture that plainly state it.
Nope. You just think they do.
 
FreeGrace

The Bible tells us that we must persevere in our faith to the end to 1) have the full assurance of what we hope for, and 2) to inherit the promises:

"...we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience (the persevering of faith) inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6:11-12 NASB parenthesis mine)

Now you will say that all it's saying is that if we don't show the same diligence of holiness, and don't patiently persevere in faith to the end, we will only lose out on rewards of inheritance, not on salvation itself. But I showed you in Revelation that there is no salvation outside of the inheritance, the New Jerusalem, and that unholy people will be outside of the inheritance (Revelation 21:27 NASB), and who's "part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 NASB), not in some kind of middle ground between damnation and the inheritance.

It is indeed absolutely necessary that the one who believes continue in that faith to the very end in order to lay hold of the hope that faith secures.
Why won't you deal with the issue of being BORN AGAIN and becoming a CHILD OF GOD??

Do you really believe that God the Father will cast some of His children, because of disobedience or unfaithfulness, into the lake of fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels??? Some Father, huh.
 
None of my post's have mentioned such a thing as unborn.

Why even say such a thing?
Because when one believes in Christ, they BECOME BORN AGAIN. So your view is that those God has regenerates and fails to continue to believe are cast into the lake of fire.

Your view has God casting His own children into the lake of fire.

I have already presented scripture that shows that sons of God were cast down to hell.

Sons of God... 2 Peter 2:4.
JLB
They were angels, not regenerated humans, who BECAME children of God. Apples and oranges.

I also said this:
Or do you think that God will cast His own children into the second DEATH, you know, the ones He GAVE ETERNAL LIFE to? That would be quite weird.

And you ignored it completely.

So, please answer: how can God cast those He has given eternal life to into the second DEATH?

And support that with Scripture.
 
Believe for a while...

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

This scripture is speaking about apostates who never knew God's grace, not born again christians.
 
Back
Top