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Man Conceived Religions

Robert Pate said:
Here is a fact. There is nothing in the New Testament that resembles Catholicism.
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In fact, there is far more in the Old Testament that resembles Catholicism. A separate priesthood, for example. Going to the priest for atonement, with directions about what one must do for forgiveness. And more.
 
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Every Christian (and Jew) believe that they have a correct view of a lot of theology. Not too many people think that their views are wrong, even if they actually are. And I'm certain that every serious Christian, almost without exception, believes that Jesus literally physically died and rose again.

However, there are many nuances to what people understand from reading the Bible and/or hearing and reading what others say/write. The only person whose words are pure truth is God (meaning the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

Here are just a few times it is mentioned: "Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” (John 8:32) and "The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17) and "But the hour is coming and is now here when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him." (John 4:23). (NRSVue translation)

In fact, the word "truth" appears 178 times in the NRSVue translation, 137 times in the NIV, 186 times in the NASB, and 224 times in the KJV. So clearly the truth is very important Biblically. (And clearly the Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek word translated "truth" has no exact parallel in English).

But the way the truth is understood and interpreted results in "man-conceived" religions, all of which believe that their interpretation is the truth. And very often, they are intolerant of what others believe is the truth. So, how can this ever be resolved?
 
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jaybo said:
Every Christian (and Jew) believe that they have a correct view of a lot of theology. Not too many people think that their views are wrong, even if they actually are. And I'm certain that every serious Christian, almost without exception, believes that Jesus literally physically died and rose again.

However, there are many nuances to what people understand from reading the Bible and/or hearing and reading what others say/write. The only person whose words are pure truth is God (meaning the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

Here are just a few times it is mentioned: "Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” (John 8:32) and "The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17) and "But the hour is coming and is now here when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him." (John 4:23). (NRSVue translation)

In fact, the word "truth" appears 178 times in the NRSVue translation, 137 times in the NIV, 186 times in the NASB, and 224 times in the KJV. So clearly the truth is very important Biblically. (And clearly the Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek word translated "truth" has no exact parallel in English).

But the way the truth is understood and interpreted results in "man-conceived" religions, all of which believe that their interpretation is the truth. And very often, they are intolerant of what others believe is the truth. So, how can this ever be resolved?
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Hi J,
I don't think this can be resolved.
Even theologians don't agree with each other.
Sometimes I feel sorry that Jesus didn't write anything down...maybe He should have.
You know, in a really clear way. So we could all be in the same page.

But there's a problem with that.
It would have become a legalistic religion, and Jesus didn't die to leave a list of do's and don'ts.
He came to change our hearts so the Kingdom of God could begin right here, right now.

So, we're left to figure it out a little.
We all have some truth, as you said.
I like to post John 13:35 every now and then.

By this will all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another.

Thanks for a good post.
 
wondering said:
Hi J,
I don't think this can be resolved.
Even theologians don't agree with each other.
Sometimes I feel sorry that Jesus didn't write anything down...maybe He should have.
You know, in a really clear way. So we could all be in the same page.

But there's a problem with that.
It would have become a legalistic religion, and Jesus didn't die to leave a list of do's and don'ts.
He came to change our hearts so the Kingdom of God could begin right here, right now.

So, we're left to figure it out a little.
We all have some truth, as you said.
I like to post John 13:35 every now and then.

By this will all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another.

Thanks for a good post.
Click to expand...
The truth about Jesus Christ and his Gospel is hidden. It can only be found by those that seek it. Most don't want to seek it because it takes effort, instead they want religion, which is easy to find.
 
Robert Pate said:
The truth about Jesus Christ and his Gospel is hidden. It can only be found by those that seek it. Most don't want to seek it because it takes effort, instead they want religion, which is easy to find.
Click to expand...
Religion:

1 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
2 a(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
3 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

So, Christianity is a religion consisting of "religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices," 'the service and worship of God," and a "system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith." Those beliefs include "The truth about Jesus Christ and his Gospel."
 
Robert Pate said:
The truth about Jesus Christ and his Gospel is hidden. It can only be found by those that seek it. Most don't want to seek it because it takes effort, instead they want religion, which is easy to find.
Click to expand...
Seems to me that we, here on these sites, seek.
We might be labeled theology geeks.
But not all persons are like this.
So, my question is: Let's say a person loves God and goes to church,
and goes to confession (if it's taught) and does whatever their denomination tells them.
Don't you think they're saved?
I most assuredly do.
 
wondering said:
Seems to me that we, here on these sites, seek.
We might be labeled theology geeks.
But not all persons are like this.
So, my question is: Let's say a person loves God and goes to church,
and goes to confession (if it's taught) and does whatever their denomination tells them.
Don't you think they're saved?
I most assuredly do.
Click to expand...

A person may 1) love God (as do most Jews) and 2) goes to church every Sunday and 3) goes to confession (if it's taught) and 4) does whatever their denomination tells them. That doesn't mean that they're saved.

A person is saved only by accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, believing that He died for them by being the sacrifice for their sins.
 
jaybo said:
A person may 1) love God (as do most Jews) and 2) goes to church every Sunday and 3) goes to confession (if it's taught) and 4) does whatever their denomination tells them. That doesn't mean that they're saved.

A person is saved only by accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, believing that He died for them by being the sacrifice for their sins.
Click to expand...
Where does it say that?
 
wondering said:
Where does it say that?
Click to expand...
John 3:16-18. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

As I wrote earlier, Jews love God --- but they are not saved.
People can go to church but if they don't believe that Jesus is their Savior, they are not saved.
A person can confess their sins -- but that doesn't save them.
A person can do whatever their denomination tells them, but that doesn't save them.

A person must believe that Jesus is their personal savior, that He died for their sins. There are many "man-conceived religions" as per the OP, but if they teach salvation by some means other than this they are fruitless.

Titus 3:5-7, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He richly poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

Acts 4:11-12, "He [Jesus] is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”
 
wondering said:
Seems to me that we, here on these sites, seek.
We might be labeled theology geeks.
But not all persons are like this.
So, my question is: Let's say a person loves God and goes to church,
and goes to confession (if it's taught) and does whatever their denomination tells them.
Don't you think they're saved?
I most assuredly do.
Click to expand...
Nope, You must believe that Jesus atoned for your sins and in doing so saved you.
 
jaybo said:
John 3:16-18. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

As I wrote earlier, Jews love God --- but they are not saved.
People can go to church but if they don't believe that Jesus is their Savior, they are not saved.
A person can confess their sins -- but that doesn't save them.
A person can do whatever their denomination tells them, but that doesn't save them.

A person must believe that Jesus is their personal savior, that He died for their sins. There are many "man-conceived religions" as per the OP, but if they teach salvation by some means other than this they are fruitless.

Titus 3:5-7, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He richly poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

Acts 4:11-12, "He [Jesus] is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among mankind by which we must be saved.”
Click to expand...
Isn't that requiring too much?
Does our doctrine save us or does God save us?
Isn't Jesus God?
They probably even have a concept of Jesus if the live in the civilized world.
Do they need to know about atonement theories in order to be saved?
Romans 2 (15?) Speaks about how we'll be judged by the light we've received.
Do you agree?
 
wondering said:
Isn't that requiring too much?
Does our doctrine save us or does God save us?
Isn't Jesus God?
They probably even have a concept of Jesus if the live in the civilized world.
Do they need to know about atonement theories in order to be saved?
Romans 2 (15?) Speaks about how we'll be judged by the light we've received.
Do you agree?
Click to expand...
A person must believe that Jesus died for his or her sins, and that He therefore is their savior. It is actually a simple, straight-forward act of faith. Without it, all the "religion", doctrines, church attendance, etc. won't give a person eternal life.
 
jaybo said:
A person must believe that Jesus died for his or her sins, and that He therefore is their savior. It is actually a simple, straight-forward act of faith. Without it, all the "religion", doctrines, church attendance, etc. won't give a person eternal life.
Click to expand...
I wonder if everyone that loves God/Jesus comes to understand this. There's a lot of people who just aren't interested in learning the teachings of their faith.
Gotta go.
'Notte
 
wondering said:
I wonder if everyone that loves God/Jesus comes to understand this. There's a lot of people who just aren't interested in learning the teachings of their faith.
Gotta go.
'Notte
Click to expand...
People are not really interested in Christ and his Gospel because it is not about them. What they are interested in is their religion, which is about them. Their works, their obedience, their piety. Jesus said, "Many will say to me, Lord, Lord, didn't I ?" Matthew 7:21-23.
 
Robert Pate said:
People are not really interested in Christ and his Gospel because it is not about them. What they are interested in is their religion, which is about them. Their works, their obedience, their piety. Jesus said, "Many will say to me, Lord, Lord, didn't I ?" Matthew 7:21-23.
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But they're not being unlawful if they're following God.
 
Robert Pate said:
There are multitudes of religious people that reject salvation by grace through faith that think that they are following God. Do you think that they are saved?
Click to expand...
No, they are not. Take Jews for example. They believe that they are "following God", but they have rejected His Son.
 
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