Robert Pate
Member
Under the New Covenant the law and the commandments have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his cross, Colossians 2:14.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
-
-
Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
Man Conceived Religions
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Show me where the New Covenant says this.
Show me something authoritative.
I taught the covenants.
Your statement is wrong.
Robert Pate
Member
I have already shown you two scriptures. How many scriptures do you need? Try Hebrews the 8th and the 9th chapters. All that I have is what the scriptures say.
Jesus and his Gospel canceled out the Old Covenant, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. Christ is the end and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant the law and the Jewish religion. Because, "The just (justified) shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. Not by rules, laws or religion.
Robert Pate
Member
Jesus has done it all and he did it perfectly. You need to rest in what Jesus has accomplished for you, Hebrews 4:10.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
You don't seem to understand what it means to rest in God,
and to decide to do nothing for Him because He already did it all.
This is called easy believism.
This is not what Jesus taught.
Do you see any commands in the teachings of Jesus?
Does HE ever say, don't do anything because I've done it all.
Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God on earth.
He came to change men.
The Kingdom needs workers and men that have been successfully changed in order to do
the works of the Kingdom.
The Good Samaritan....
Jesus isn't going to pick up person lying in the street,
YOU have to.
Luke 10
Jesus isn't going to clothe the needy,
YOU have to.
Matthew 25:36
Jesus isn't going to be a fisher of men anymore.
YOU have to do this in your daily life.
Matthew 4:19
Jesus said to let your light shine so that men could see your good works.
According to you - you don't have to do any good works.
Matthew 5:16
Honor your parents.
Matthew 15:4
There's a lot more.
I'm not saying you don't do these works,
I'm saying that FAITH ALONE is not what Jesus taught.
He taught us that we're TO DO what He commanded.
Faith alone is dead,
Faith without works is a dead faith that brings nothing to the Kingdom, and is of no use.
James 2
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
No covenant EVER abolished the previous one, but only changed it in some way or made it better.
The just shall live by faith.
Romans. Good.
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
So, first we must have faith which is by grace through faith
and not of our own works.
After we have become born again and are serving God, it will be necessary to DO what God commands us to do.
If there are no further commandments, what does the following mean??
John 14:15 Jesus said
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 15:14 Jesus said
You are my friends IF you DO what I command you.
Apparently, Jesus left us with some commandments to obey.
Perhaps you should learn what they are, obey Jesus and stop saying
we have nothing to do for Him.
Robert Pate is right. The OT law and commandments have been abolished under the New Covenant. We are not under law but under grace.
Romans 6:14, "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace."
Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.
And many other places in the NT.
No he is not biblically correct, though he may be correct by your personal beliefs.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5
- He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,
People who claim to have eternal life, but live in disobedience to the Lord are liars.
Every covenant has requirements.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Christians, brothers in Christ, who hate their brother do not have eternal life remaining in them.
WAKE UP!
JLB
Do you understand what being under grace means?
Be under the law meant under obligation to obey the law.
Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:28-29
To be under grace means we are obligated to obey grace; the Spirit of grace, The Holy Spirit.
Paul says it this way --
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:14
JLB
Robert Pate
Member
Robert Pate
Member
Flesh and blood did not reveal that to you.
It is ironic that you post "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15" after writing "People who claim to have eternal life, but live in disobedience to the Lord are liars." (a hateful statement)
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
We are no longer under the Law.
When did I say we were?
I think there's a misunderstanding between THE LAW and the commandments of God.
Moses was given the law. There were 613 rules and regulations that the Israelites had to follow.
Among them were the 10 commandments....these will last for all time.
Jesus said
John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
There were 3 types of law in the OT.
CEREMONIAL
CIVIL
MORAL
The Ceremonial and civil laws have been abolished.
The Moral Law will NEVER be abolished.
God is morality.
We must adhere to His moral code.
"As we would expect, J.I. Packer does a masterful job of unraveling the errors of antinomianism.
Thus, with regard to justification, antinomians affirm that God never sees sin in believers; once we are in Christ, whatever our subsequent lapses, he sees at every moment only the flawless righteousness of the Savior’s life on earth, now reckoned to be ours.
Then, with regard to sanctification, there have been mystical antinomians who have affirmed that the indwelling Christ is the personal subject who obeys the law in our identity once we invoke his help in obedience situations, and there have been pneumatic antinomians who have affirmed that the Holy Spirit within us directly prompts us to discern and do the will of God, without our needing to look to the law to either prescribe or monitor our performance.
The common ground is that those who live in Christ are wholly separated from every aspect of the pedagogy of the law. The freedom with which Christ has set us free, and the entire source of our ongoing peace and assurance, are based upon our knowledge that what Christ, as we say, enables us to do he actually does in us for himself.
So now we live, not by being forgiven our constant shortcomings, but by being out of the law’s bailiwick altogether; not by imitating Christ, the archetypal practitioner of holy obedience to God’s law, but by burrowing ever deeper into the joy of our free justification, and of our knowledge that Christ himself actually does in us all that his and our Father wants us to do.
Thus the correlating of conscience with the Father’s coded commands and Christ’s own casuistry of compassion need not and indeed should not enter into the living of the Christian life, as antinomians understand it.
The bottom line of all this? The conclusion of the matter? Here, as elsewhere, the reaction of man does not lead to the righteousness of God, but rather obstructs holiness. In God’s family, as in human families, an antinomian attitude to parental law makes for pride and immaturity, misbehavior and folly. Our true model of wise godliness, as well as our true mediator of God’s grace, is Jesus Christ, our law-keeping Lord. (x-xi)"
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/antinomianism-its-bigger-than-you-think/
And this:
"The word antinomianism comes from two Greek words, anti, meaning "against"; and nomos, meaning "law." Antinomianism means “against the law.” Theologically, antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. Antinomianism takes a biblical teaching to an unbiblical conclusion. The biblical teaching is that Christians are not required to observe the Old Testament Law as a means of salvation. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He fulfilled the Old Testament Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). The unbiblical conclusion is that there is no moral law God expects Christians to obey."
https://www.gotquestions.org/antinomianism.html
I think that this is overthinking the situation. The OT (Mosaic) is dead. It has been entirely replaced by the New Covenant. This includes the ten commandments and the "moral law". No person can be under both covenants at the same time.
Paul wrote about it most clearly... Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.
Notice that it doesn't say "part of the law". We have been completely released from the entire OT law, including the ten commandments and the "moral law".
Hebrew 7:11-28 is the best theological description...
So if perfection had in fact been possible through the Levitical priesthood—for on that basis the people received the law—what further need would there have been for another priest to arise, said to be in the order of Melchizedek and not in Aaron’s order? For when the priesthood changes, a change in the law must come as well. Yet the one these things are spoken about belongs to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever officiated at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord is descended from Judah, yet Moses said nothing about priests in connection with that tribe. And this is even clearer if another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become a priest not by a legal regulation about physical descent but by the power of an indestructible life. For here is the testimony about him: “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.” On the one hand a former command is set aside because it is weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect. On the other hand a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. And since this was not done without a sworn affirmation—for the others have become priests without a sworn affirmation, but Jesus did so with a sworn affirmation by the one who said to him, “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, ‘You are a priest forever’”— accordingly Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. And the others who became priests were numerous, because death prevented them from continuing in office, but he holds his priesthood permanently since he lives forever. So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. For it is indeed fitting for us to have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separate from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need to do every day what those priests do, to offer sacrifices first for their own sins and then for the sins of the people, since he did this in offering himself once for all. For the law appoints as high priests men subject to weakness, but the word of solemn affirmation that came after the law appoints a son made perfect forever."
New covenant means just that. The new entirely replaces the old. All of it.
When Jesus was speaking in John's gospel, to whom was He speaking and when was He saying it? He was speaking to His disciples before His death, which issued in the New Covenant that entirely replaced the Old Covenant.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Hebrews is not the authoratative explanation of the New Covenant.
I already asked someone to post some authoratative links on the New Covenant.
The New Covenant DOES NOT abolish the moral code.
It just makes it POSSIBLE for us to adhere to it.
THAT is the difference between the Old and New Covenant.
So are you actually stating, right here and now,
that we have no obligation to follow the Moral Laws of God?
Three Old Testament Law Categories - Ceremonial - Civil - Moral
The Old Testament Law focuses on action, but God's promise to Abraham was through faith. There are three categories of the Old Covenant.; Ceremonial, Civil, Moral.
www.trusting-in-jesus.com
Further New Testament evidence for the threefold division is found in passages such as Matthew 5:17-48, Matthew 19:18-19, and Romans 13:9, especially when they are read alongside the many passages, such as the book of Hebrews, which speak of the irrelevance of circumcision and the obsolescence of the Levitical and sacrificial requirements. The commandments which are cited in the New Testament as having convicting power or as God’s continuing demands for the believing life are clearly distinguished from those which were specific to the Jews at a certain time. This observation upholds the view that the moral commandments are to be treated separately from those which are suspended, which had a ceremonial purport.
The observation of the moral laws laid down in Mosaic Revelation is an unconditional obligation for every Jew. Holdheim defines the moral laws as those laws which are eternally true and not bound to the particular mentality of the Jews at the time of Moses.
However, at other times he uses the vocabulary of law more specifically of the sacrificial system or of the moral demands of the faith. In this more specific sense, the law is abolished only in certain parts: the sacrificial system has gone, but moral demand remains.
source: https://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/the-threefold-division-of-the-law.pdf
One can find sources to uphold virtually any doctrine. There is no difficulty in doing that. As I have written previously, a professor in graduate school gave me some excellent advice: try to prove yourself wrong, as that is what others will try to do. If you can't do that you're on pretty solid ground.
If you ask someone, Christian or not, if they think it's wise to lead a moral life, those who will deign to answer you (without leaving insulted) will tell you that the answer is obvious: of course. The question is how does a person live a moral life?
According to Paul, if you haven't been reborn in Christ you are a slave to sin, so it is impossible. By contrast then, a person who has been born again can lead a moral life. It is my firm belief that it can be achieved only by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It may be helpful to have a written moral code, but having that written code does not make a personal moral. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. If, as I understand you to say, the OT Jews had the moral code, what good did it do them? They were unable to keep it because they were slaves to their sinful natures.
We Christians, on the other hand, have been given the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. The law -- all of it -- failed to create a new (moral) person, so by itself, even though it was righteous and true, it lacked the power to change our basic sinful nature.
People can have all the written laws that they want (including the moral code) but that won't do them any good if the Holy Spirit, given to them by God, isn't guiding them into the life God wants them to lead.
Robert Pate
Member
No one can live the Christian life until they are free from the law. It is the law that promotes sin. The more one tries to be holy by keeping the law the more one will sin, Romans 7:8. This is why the organized church is full of hypocrites.