Man Conceived Religions

[GodsGrace]

There is no mention of a Catholic church in the Bible. John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, Revelation 1:4. Nothing about a church in Rome. There is no evidence that Peter went to Rome. The Catholic church is full of heresies because it is not based upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a works religion.

The apostles were ordinary men.

The Apostles were ordinary men.
I'm not debating this with you. If that's how you feel OK.

No mention of a CC in the bible.
Is there a mention of the Assembly of God church? The Baptist Church?

Go to Rome someday and then tell me there's no proof. Not debating this.

I sure hope you know what a heresy is.

The CC is not a works religion. What makes you and others think that?

 

[jaybo]

The Catholic denomination resembles the nation of Israel in the Old Testament...

A separate, hierarchical priesthood
A single "high priest" -- the Pope
Confessing sins to a priest who then gives "remedies" for forgiveness
An elaborate "temple" to be God's house
A single city as the seat of the religion
Claiming to be the sole people of God while denying others that status
Claiming that only certain people are saints
Depicting Jesus as dead on the cross
Persecuting reformers, sometimes to the point of murder

... and those are just the ones I thought of in five minutes.

I am not saying that Catholics are not Christians, but that they have distorted the meaning of the church, the body of Christ and excluded others who are also part of that body. Many Catholics are true believers despite the corruption of the institution.

 

[for_his_glory]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religions with there being over 5000 different ones in the world. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.
(John 1:1-5; 3:3; Romans 10:9-10)

The biggest deception Satan can use is to confuse the unlearned mind. God said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. You forget me and my word and I will forget you and your children. This is a pretty profound statement that holds so much truth. This is why this world is in the shape it is in today with so many religions claiming they are the true religion and only they will go to heaven and those who do not conform to their ways will go to hell.
(Hosea 4:6-9)

Truth has now turned to deception of the carnal minds ways of thinking which produces mans interpretations, traditions of law and doctrine. Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers. Satan is pretty clever and the master of lies and deceit.
(1Peter 5:8-10; 4:11; Revelation 22:18-19)

2Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Timothy 2:16 but shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[Robert Pate]

The Apostles were ordinary men.
I'm not debating this with you. If that's how you feel OK.

No mention of a CC in the bible.
Is there a mention of the Assembly of God church? The Baptist Church?

Go to Rome someday and then tell me there's no proof. Not debating this.

I sure hope you know what a heresy is.

The CC is not a works religion. What makes you and others think that?

There is no mention of any religion in the New Testament. Some wanted to start a religion, but Paul wanted no part of it, 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. The New Testament emphasis is that the just shall live by faith, Romans 1:17.

If you don't take the sacraments in the Catholic church, plus dozens of other things, you will be anathema.

 

[Free]

The law and the commandments are for unbelievers. The Gospel is for believers. 1 Timothy 1:9-11.

You're still fallaciously begging the question and still completely ignoring the numerous verses I have provided which unequivocally show many rules and commands for believers. Why do you continue to ignore them and simply keep repeating your fallacious reasoning?

 

[Free]

You neglected these verses, "To the married I give this command—not I but the Lord—that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does separate, let her remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband) and that the husband should not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say—I and not the Lord—that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. And if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce the husband." 1 Corinthians 7:10-13

Clearly not everything Paul wrote is from God. Some of it is his personal opinions. This applies to others also.

No, it doesn't. Paul says "(I, not the Lord)" only once, in a specific context, which means it refers only to what he was immediately talking about. What you also don't seem to understand is that, regardless of what Paul says:

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

Everything Paul wrote was "breathed out by God." So, when Paul says "(I, not the Lord)," he must have meant something specific. Note that he first says: "To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband." Is that not repeating what Christ said? Then, when he follows that with "To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her," we can understand that to mean that this isn't from the law nor did he hear it from Christ or teachings of the other apostles; it is just something that he wrote and perhaps thought about for the first time. But it is just as inspired and breathed out by God as everything else he wrote.

On a more fundamental note, obeying the Old Covenant involves keeping rules (written or oral commands). The New Covenant involves being internally guided by the Holy Spirit. The two covenants don't mix!

You're also fallaciously begging the question and completely ignoring the numerous verses I have given which very clearly show that there are rules and commands for believers to follow. Paul even commands Timothy to command others to follow things. The Holy Spirit most often guides through the rules and commands that we find for believers in the NT. The two are not mutually exclusive. According to what you believe, you should just throw out your Bible and let the Holy Spirit guide you.

As I have said before, what Biblical rules involve such things as exceeding the speed limit,

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
...
Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Php 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

writing a bad check,

2Co 8:21 for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of man.

Luk 6:31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

watching internet porn,

Heb 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Eph 5:15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,
Eph 5:16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil.

1Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Rom 16:19 For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.

betting on the Super Bowl, etc?

Heb 13:5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
1Ti 6:11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.

(All ESV.)

 

[Robert Pate]

You're still fallaciously begging the question and still completely ignoring the numerous verses I have provided which unequivocally show many rules and commands for believers. Why do you continue to ignore them and simply keep repeating your fallacious reasoning?

You are in denial of the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant Christians don't live by laws, rules and commandments, they live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 1:17. The law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you need the law, it means that you are lawless and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9.

 

[Free]

You are in denial of the New Covenant.

No, I am not. You just don’t seem to understand what it all entails.

2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (ESV)

Under the New Covenant Christians don't live by laws, rules and commandments, they live by faith in Christ and his Gospel, Romans 1:17. The law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. If you need the law, it means that you are lawless and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9.

Again, you are fallaciously equating the law of Moses with the rules and commands for believers.

I find it rather unbelievable that continue to ignore the numerous passages I have given which clearly show not only rules and commands for believers, but Paul literally commanding Timothy to command other believers to do certain things, avoid other things, and generally just how to live the Christian life.

1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

2Th 3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord about you, that you are doing and will do the things that we command.
2Th 3:5 May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ.
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
2Th 3:7 For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you,
2Th 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you.
2Th 3:9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate.
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
2Th 3:11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies.
2Th 3:12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.
2Th 3:13 As for you, brothers, do notgrow weary in doing good.
2Th 3:14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.

1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.

1Ti 6:11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses
1Ti 6:13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession,
1Ti 6:14 to keep the commandments unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1. Is Paul writing commands for believers in the above?
2. Is Paul commanding Timothy to command other believers?


1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
...
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
1Jn 2:8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

1Jn 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

2Jn 1:4 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father.
2Jn 1:5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.

3. Is John saying that we should follow the commands of Jesus?
4. What does John say about those who say they know Jesus but don’t follow his commandments?

(All ESV.)

 

[GodsGrace]

The Catholic denomination resembles the nation of Israel in the Old Testament...

A separate, hierarchical priesthood
A single "high priest" -- the Pope
Confessing sins to a priest who then gives "remedies" for forgiveness
An elaborate "temple" to be God's house
A single city as the seat of the religion
Claiming to be the sole people of God while denying others that status
Claiming that only certain people are saints
Depicting Jesus as dead on the cross
Persecuting reformers, sometimes to the point of murder

... and those are just the ones I thought of in five minutes.

I am not saying that Catholics are not Christians, but that they have distorted the meaning of the church, the body of Christ and excluded others who are also part of that body. Many Catholics are true believers despite the corruption of the institution.

Catholics have not distorted the meaning of the Body of Christ.
They believe as we do. Please remember that church with a capital C means the Body of Christ.
(church with a small c means the bldg or the institution).
CCC 797 "What the soul is to the human body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church." "To this Spirit of Christ, as an invisible principle, is to be ascribed the fact that all the parts of the body are joined one with the other and with their exalted head; for the whole Spirit of Christ is in the head, the whole Spirit is in the body, and the whole Spirit is in each of the members." The Holy Spirit makes the Church "the temple of the living God":


Indeed, it is to the Church herself that the "Gift of God" has been entrusted. . . . In it is in her that communion with Christ has been deposited, that is to say: the Holy Spirit, the pledge of incorruptibility, the strengthening of our faith and the ladder of our ascent to God. . . . For where the Church is, there also is God's Spirit; where God's Spirit is, there is the Church and every grace.
Also, the CC excludes no one that believes in Jesus and is baptized into the Christian faith:

CCC 1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church." "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."

 

[GodsGrace]

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religions with there being over 5000 different ones in the world. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.
(John 1:1-5; 3:3; Romans 10:9-10)

The biggest deception Satan can use is to confuse the unlearned mind. God said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. You forget me and my word and I will forget you and your children. This is a pretty profound statement that holds so much truth. This is why this world is in the shape it is in today with so many religions claiming they are the true religion and only they will go to heaven and those who do not conform to their ways will go to hell.
(Hosea 4:6-9)

Truth has now turned to deception of the carnal minds ways of thinking which produces mans interpretations, traditions of law and doctrine. Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers. Satan is pretty clever and the master of lies and deceit.
(1Peter 5:8-10; 4:11; Revelation 22:18-19)

2Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Timothy 2:16 but shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

I once heard a pastor say that in a religion (something practiced by man without faith in God) man reaches up to God and tries to please Him with works and no faith.

In Christianity God reaches down to man to draw man up and to have faith in God.

Faith is always the key.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no mention of any religion in the New Testament. Some wanted to start a religion, but Paul wanted no part of it, 1 Corinthians 1:10-17. The New Testament emphasis is that the just shall live by faith, Romans 1:17.

If you don't take the sacraments in the Catholic church, plus dozens of other things, you will be anathema.

Where do you learn these things?
The CC believes that there is grace in receiving sacraments.
They're a visible way to see the love of God.
We could debate confession with them...but not the other sacraments, they're all biblical.
We may or may not agree with this, but it certainly is a nice way of belonging to a church.
Personally, I think there is not ENOUGH ritual in the Protestant denominations - I think it would be better if there were.
But that's another thread.

 

[JLB]

Christianity is a religion by practically every definition of religion.

Who’s definition?


Maybe you could post some links to those definitions that label Christianity as a religion.


A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and His doctrine.







JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

The law and the commandments are for unbelievers. The Gospel is for believers. 1 Timothy 1:9-11.

What do unbelievers care if they keep the law or the commandments of God?
They're UNBELIEVERS.

Commandments are for BELIEVERS.

Paul says that certain person will not see heaven because of how they live,,,
He's writing to Christians, the lost are already lost.

Romans 13:4-14
Romans 13:4:13-14
. 13Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
14But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

Let US behave properly....US...Christians.
The entire NT is about how we are to behave.

Why all the warnings according to you?

 

[GodsGrace]

Who’s definition?


Maybe you could post some links to those definitions that label Christianity as a religion.


A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ and His doctrine.



JLB

The problem here, as I see it, is that there are billions of Christians in the world.
But not all practice Christianity.

The idea is that in a religion people follow rules and commandments, both by men and God, without necessarily really believing in God. Islam is like this and Catholicism is like this. There are many who follow the rules and even the commandments but do not really believe in God OR have faith in Him.

I do believe that CHRISTIANITY is different.
If someone says I'M CHRISTIAN, instead of I'M BAPTIST or I'M CATHOLIC, maybe he really means that he is a BELIEVER.
And this would make Christianity a faith and not a religion.

Didn't really think this through, just putting it out there for thought.

 

[JLB]

If someone says I'M CHRISTIAN, instead of I'M BAPTIST or I'M CATHOLIC, maybe he really means that he is a BELIEVER.

If a person says he or she is a Christian, then they are saying they are a follower (obeyer) of Jesus Christ and His teachings.


If a person claims to be a Calvinist, then they are a follower of John Calvin and his teachings.


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13


Paul was appalled that people in his day claimed to be following him.

Can you imagine what he would say today?


John says it this way —


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9







JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I once heard a pastor say that in a religion (something practiced by man without faith in God) man reaches up to God and tries to please Him with works and no faith.

In Christianity God reaches down to man to draw man up and to have faith in God.

Faith is always the key.

Without faith we can not please the Lord. Very sad how many do not seek after the doctrines of Christ, but rather seek after the Pastors. Priest, Rabbi's etc. etc. and believe everything they teach.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[donadams]

Of course. Beware of man conceived religions.

Is there a head of this church?

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul said, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for homosexuals, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" 1 Timothy 1:9-10.

If any of the above fits you, then the law is for you. As for me, I prefer to be led by the Holy Spirit.

Paul also said that the law is a "Ministration of death" 2 Corinthians 3:7 The words "Law" and "Religion" mean the same thing. Those that are practicing a religion are practicing a religion of death. Maybe this is why all of the Catholic priest wear black. Black is a symbol for death.

 

[GodsGrace]

If a person says he or she is a Christian, then they are saying they are a follower (obeyer) of Jesus Christ and His teachings.


If a person claims to be a Calvinist, then they are a follower of John Calvin and his teachings.


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13


Paul was appalled that people in his day claimed to be following him.

Can you imagine what he would say today?


John says it this way —


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9







JLB

Amen!
:nod

PS
Just want to say that if a person just reads the NT with no prior indoctrination,
They would not be able to come away believing in what Calvin, Smith, Russel, taught.
It just isn't there.
Only when a person is introduced to these man-made religions, can the teachings be accepted by some - not because they read it themselves in the NT.

 

[GodsGrace]

Without faith we can not please the Lord. Very sad how many do not seek after the doctrines of Christ, but rather seek after the Pastors. Priest, Rabbi's etc. etc. and believe everything they teach.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Amen.
I truly believe in my post no. 39...