Man Conceived Religions

[jaybo]

Again, a false dichotomy, and an incorrect, worldly, self-centered idea (that we are "self-governing," as you put it in your other post; as though we are completely autonomous). As for being soldiers and taking orders:

Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;
Eph 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,

2Th 3:14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.

2Ti 2:3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:4 No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

(All ESV.)

Again, it seems that Paul disagrees with you. We are soldiers and we are to obey and make it our aim to please God. That is rather the whole point of the inspired rules and commands for believers throughout the NT. We obey if we truly love him, as John clearly states, and our obedience leads to sanctification.


That is quite the claim considering you have ignored most everything that undermines your position, and when you have addressed a few things, I have shown how you have taken them out of context. There are many questions left unanswered and many arguments and rebuttals left unaddressed.

Are you serious? Really? Are you/were you in the military? Do you exist by just following orders?

As far as quoting Romans and Ephesians, Paul is symbolically describing putting on spiritual armor to defend one's self against Satan.

"... take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm." This has absolutely nothing to do with following orders or commands. That is clearly twisting the meaning.

Writing "We are soldiers and we are to obey and make it our aim to please God" shows exactly where you're coming from. We are God's dearly-loved children.

I really feel sorry for you. Can't you rest securely in God's love? He is your FATHER, not your commanding officer!
Finally, you wrote, that our obedience leads to sanctification. WRONG!!! We are already sanctified; WE ARE IN CHRIST. See these quotes from the New Testament...

Acts 20:32, "And now I commend you to God and to the message of his grace, a message that is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all who are sanctified." PRESENT TENSE

Acts 26:17-18, "I will rescue you from your people and from the gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ PRESENT TENSE

1 Corinthians 1:2, "To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours..." PRESENT TENSE

Hebrews 2:11, "For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father. For this reason Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters," PRESENT TENSE

Hebrews 10:10, "And it is by God’s will that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." PRESENT PERFECT TENSE CONTINUOUS

Hebrews 10:14, "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." PRESENT PERFECT TENSE CONTINUOUS

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

The rest of your post isn't worth replying to.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you serious? Really? Are you/were you in the military? Do you exist by just following orders?

As far as quoting Romans and Ephesians, Paul is symbolically describing putting on spiritual armor to defend one's self against Satan.

"... take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm." This has absolutely nothing to do with following orders or commands. That is clearly twisting the meaning.

Writing "We are soldiers and we are to obey and make it our aim to please God" shows exactly where you're coming from. We are God's dearly-loved children.

I really feel sorry for you. Can't you rest securely in God's love? He is your FATHER, not your commanding officer!
Finally, you wrote, that our obedience leads to sanctification. WRONG!!! We are already sanctified; WE ARE IN CHRIST. See these quotes from the New Testament...

Acts 20:32, "And now I commend you to God and to the message of his grace, a message that is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all who are sanctified." PRESENT TENSE

Acts 26:17-18, "I will rescue you from your people and from the gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ PRESENT TENSE

1 Corinthians 1:2, "To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours..." PRESENT TENSE

Hebrews 2:11, "For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father. For this reason Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters," PRESENT TENSE

Hebrews 10:10, "And it is by God’s will that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." PRESENT PERFECT TENSE CONTINUOUS

Hebrews 10:14, "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." PRESENT PERFECT TENSE CONTINUOUS

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

The rest of your post isn't worth replying to.

J,
I get your point.
But if we're told to put on armor, for protection, this means we're susceptible to satan's tempting us.

Wouldn't it be good to know all the ways he could go about doing this?

I need to knock off now.
Tomorrow.

 

[Iconoclast]

So which other parts of the Bible aren't written for us?

I do not think Jesus told you to walk on the water , like he did to Peter. I do not think God told you to sacrifice your son on an altar, did he?

As far as I know, none of the people written/spoken to in the Bible are alive (on Earth) today, so according to you, we should just ignore everything that is written (except for some of Revelation), correct?

2 how about reading the context of the passage! That might help.

 

[Free]

Are you serious? Really? Are you/were you in the military? Do you exist by just following orders?

Another false dilemma.

As far as quoting Romans and Ephesians, Paul is symbolically describing putting on spiritual armor to defend one's self against Satan.

Yes, that is my point.

"... take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm." This has absolutely nothing to do with following orders or commands. That is clearly twisting the meaning.

No, I twisted nothing; you just missed the point. We put on armor because we're in a spiritual battle. We are called to war:

Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

We "take up the whole armor of God" on the basis of what verse 12 tells us.

Writing "We are soldiers and we are to obey and make it our aim to please God" shows exactly where you're coming from. We are God's dearly-loved children.

I really feel sorry for you. Can't you rest securely in God's love? He is your FATHER, not your commanding officer!

I have read my Bible and that is why I fully agree that God is our heavenly Father and we are his children, but I don't exclude the fact that we are also called soldiers and told to put on armor, which is what soldiers do. Why do you exclude the latter and only focus on the former?

Finally, you wrote, that our obedience leads to sanctification. WRONG!!! We are already sanctified; WE ARE IN CHRIST. See these quotes from the New Testament...


Acts 20:32, "And now I commend you to God and to the message of his grace, a message that is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all who are sanctified." PRESENT TENSE

Acts 26:17-18, "I will rescue you from your people and from the gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ PRESENT TENSE

1 Corinthians 1:2, "To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours..." PRESENT TENSE

Hebrews 2:11, "For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father. For this reason Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters," PRESENT TENSE

Hebrews 10:10, "And it is by God’s will that we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." PRESENT PERFECT TENSE CONTINUOUS

Hebrews 10:14, "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." PRESENT PERFECT TENSE CONTINUOUS

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Again, I have read my Bible and that is why I agree with it that sanctification is spoken of as both a past event and an ongoing process. It's why I don't exclude one in favor of the other.

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

1Th 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more.
1Th 4:2 For you know what instructions [charge] we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

The above verses in 1 Thess are particularly pertinent to the discussion since Paul says that he and others gave a charge (command) "through the Lord Jesus" as to "how [they] ought to walk and to please God." Those pesky rules and commands for believers again, but this time, it is because of "the will of God, [their] sanctification." That is, we ought to walk to please God as it leads to our sanctification.

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Pe 1:15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
1Pe 1:16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

And here is a command for believers to "be holy in all your conduct."

(All ESV.)

So, while the NT mostly emphasizes our position as being sanctified, it also speaks of it as an ongoing process in which we are commanded to "be holy in all [our] conduct" and to walk in such a way as "to please God."

The rest of your post isn't worth replying to.

It is for anyone interested in Truth.

 

[jaybo]

J,
I get your point.
But if we're told to put on armor, for protection, this means we're susceptible to satan's tempting us.

Wouldn't it be good to know all the ways he could go about doing this?

I need to knock off now.
Tomorrow.

Yes, of course. But Free implied that we're putting on armor as soldiers to follow the commands of our superiors.

 

[jaybo]

If we don't have to know the rules, WHY does Jesus and Paul and the other writers spend so much time telling us about them? Why do they spend so much of their preaching time to telling us how to behave as Chrisitians?
Shouldn't the new Christians just have known automatically how to behave in their life?

Are you and the other member just keep saying that we're not pharisees,
or are you going to answer the above question?

BTW, if breaking the speed limit is a sin, I'm headed in the elevator going down.

Again (and again and again...) we -- those of us who are in Christ -- have been set free from the law. We are governed by the Holy Spirit, not some external law. He is our guide. We don't "have to know the rules"; that is a mental exercise.

New Christians require teachers to show them how to understand the guidance of the Holy Spirit andbhow to conduct their lives. If you need rules you are not a mature Christian. In the beginning you are a spiritual child who needs to be taught, but as in normal life, children grow up to be self-governing adults.

And what does "Are you and the other member just keep saying that we're not pharisees," mean? Are you a Pharisee wanna be?

Regarding breaking the speed limit... As you know I was recently in Italy, where very few obey the speed limit. My daughter, who lives in Firenze, will start driving soon, and I fear for her safety. LOL

 

[Robert Pate]

Again (and again and again...) we -- those of us who are in Christ -- have been set free from the law. We are governed by the Holy Spirit, not some external law. He is our guide. We don't "have to know the rules"; that is a mental exercise.

New Christians require teachers to show them how to understand the guidance of the Holy Spirit andbhow to conduct their lives. If you need rules you are not a mature Christian. In the beginning you are a spiritual child who needs to be taught, but as in normal life, children grow up to be self-governing adults.

And what does "Are you and the other member just keep saying that we're not pharisees," mean? Are you a Pharisee wanna be?

Regarding breaking the speed limit... As you know I was recently in Italy, where very few obey the speed limit. My daughter, who lives in Firenze, will start driving soon, and I fear for her safety. LOL

New Christian need to be taught the Gospel. The Holy Spirit is present in the Gospel and will lead them into all truth. John 16:13.

 

[Free]

Yes, of course. But Free implied that we're putting on armor as soldiers to follow the commands of our superiors.

So, you don't obey the Holy Spirit when he tells you to do something? Or does God just never ask you to do anything?

Again (and again and again...) we -- those of us who are in Christ -- have been set free from the law. We are governed by the Holy Spirit, not some external law. He is our guide. We don't "have to know the rules"; that is a mental exercise.

Again, the fallacies of equivocation--the law of Moses and rules and commands for believers--and false dilemma--it's either the Spirit guiding us or its rules and commands.

If you need rules you are not a mature Christian.

Where is this taught in Scripture?

In the beginning you are a spiritual child who needs to be taught, but as in normal life, children grow up to be self-governing adults.

We are never to be self-governing; that is worldly thinking.

 

[Free]

New Christian need to be taught the Gospel. The Holy Spirit is present in the Gospel and will lead them into all truth. John 16:13.

Who was Jesus talking to in John 16:13? The twelve. And they (one of whom would be replaced) were responsible for setting up his church in various geographical areas, along with Paul who received his own particular commission directly from Christ. The Holy Spirit inspired them along the way to address issues and concerns in belief and behaviour by writing letters, resulting in the NT. That is why the NT is quite full of rules and commands for proper Christian belief and behaviour, and none of those issues have gone away down through the millennia.

Looking at the context, which we should always do:

Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

The whole point in verse 13 comes from verse 12. Jesus is not giving a blanket statement for all believers, everywhere, in all times. He clearly says that there is more that the 12 needed to know but they weren't ready for it all, so the Holy Spirit would guide them into the truth about it all when he came. That isn't to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't help us to understand what is written in the Bible, because he does.

 

[Robert Pate]

Who was Jesus talking to in John 16:13? The twelve. And they (one of whom would be replaced) were responsible for setting up his church in various geographical areas, along with Paul who received his own particular commission directly from Christ. The Holy Spirit inspired them along the way to address issues and concerns in belief and behaviour by writing letters, resulting in the NT. That is why the NT is quite full of rules and commands for proper Christian belief and behaviour, and none of those issues have gone away down through the millennia.

Looking at the context, which we should always do:

Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

The whole point in verse 13 comes from verse 12. Jesus is not giving a blanket statement for all believers, everywhere, in all times. He clearly says that there is more that the 12 needed to know but they weren't ready for it all, so the Holy Spirit would guide them into the truth about it all when he came. That isn't to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't help us to understand what is written in the Bible, because he does.

Christians don't need rules, laws and religion. Like John said, "The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth". The law is for unbelievers, the Spirit is for Christians. If you need laws and rules it is because you are unlawful and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9.

 

[Free]

Christians don't need rules, laws and religion.

This is just begging the question and ignoring the numerous passages of Scripture I have give which utterly refute your position. It’s no surprise that you have always ignored them.

Like John said, "The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth".

He did and I addressed the context of that verse, which you completely unsurprised me by avoiding an attempt at rebuttal.

The law is for unbelievers, the Spirit is for Christians.

As with jaybo, you keep repeating the fallacies of equivocation and false dilemma. You must know you’re doing it and be fine with doing it because you have so far avoided addressing it. But the problem is, poor reasoning completely undermines your position, so why are you fine to just let it stand?

If you need laws and rules it is because you are unlawful and disobedient, 1 Timothy 1:9.

Yet, again, the fallacy of equivocation and ignoring the context including verses 3 and 5.

So far, your entire position rests on several fallacious arguments, which you don’t address, taking verses out of context, which, when shown how, you don’t respond to, and by ignoring mountains of verses which not only show rules and commands for believers, but Paul commanding Timothy to command other believers. You have literally ignored every argument that proves difficult for your position.

In short, I see no reason to believe that your position is biblical. It is completely unconvincing.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is just begging the question and ignoring the numerous passages of Scripture I have give which utterly refute your position. It’s no surprise that you have always ignored them.


He did and I addressed the context of that verse, which you completely unsurprised me by avoiding an attempt at rebuttal.


As with jaybo, you keep repeating the fallacies of equivocation and false dilemma. You must know you’re doing it and be fine with doing it because you have so far avoided addressing it. But the problem is, poor reasoning completely undermines your position, so why are you fine to just let it stand?


Yet, again, the fallacy of equivocation and ignoring the context including verses 3 and 5.

So far, your entire position rests on several fallacious arguments, which you don’t address, taking verses out of context, which, when shown how, you don’t respond to, and by ignoring mountains of verses which not only show rules and commands for believers, but Paul commanding Timothy to command other believers. You have literally ignored every argument that proves difficult for your position.

In short, I see no reason to believe that your position is biblical. It is completely unconvincing.

There are no laws or rules for Christians, because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. You are not able to believe.

 

[jaybo]

So, you don't obey the Holy Spirit when he tells you to do something? Or does God just never ask you to do anything?


Again, the fallacies of equivocation--the law of Moses and rules and commands for believers--and false dilemma--it's either the Spirit guiding us or its rules and commands.


Where is this taught in Scripture?


We are never to be self-governing; that is worldly thinking.

I disagree with everything you have written. IMHO you live under the Old Covenant or rules and commands that must be followed. Why?

The Holy Spirit guides me, as Scripture says he will. You have some need for external authority, orders, commands, which means that you either can't or won't rely on internal guidance. That is the fundamental difference between the Old and New Covenants. We are part of Christ's body, not separate from it.

You almost got it right when you wrote "you don't obey the Holy Spirit when he tells you to do something? Or does God just never ask you to do anything?" I'll leave it to you to figure out which half is correct.

Child need instructions about how to behave, adults are taught to be self-governing. It's really sad that you don't understand that. 1 Corinthians 13:11, "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways."

 

[Free]

There are no laws or rules for Christians, because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. You are not able to believe.

Case in point. Yet, again, using the fallacy of equivocation. Your position is based on erroneous reasoning. Therefore, it can, and should, be rejected.

 

[Free]

I disagree with everything you have written. IMHO you live under the Old Covenant or rules and commands that must be followed. Why?

I follow all that the is written in the Bible, including the very clear rules and commands for believers, which you have not even once event attempted to address. You must necessarily ignore much of the NT, if your position is to hold.

The Holy Spirit guides me, as Scripture says he will.

That is only one thing that Scripture says the Holy Spirit does. Personally, I take it all, not just part.

You have some need for external authority, orders, commands, which means that you either can't or won't rely on internal guidance. That is the fundamental difference between the Old and New Covenants.

Again, fallacious reasoning. It isn't either/or, it's both/and. I believe and follow all that the Bible states, not just that which I find convenient.

We are part of Christ's body, not separate from it.

Exactly, which is why I follow what he commands, whether directly in the gospels or through the inspiration of the NT writers.

You almost got it right when you wrote "you don't obey the Holy Spirit when he tells you to do something? Or does God just never ask you to do anything?" I'll leave it to you to figure out which half is correct.

The first half.

Child need instructions about how to behave, adults are taught to be self-governing.

The idea of "self-governing" is thoroughly, thoroughly worldly. It also contradicts your argument that we are to be led by the Spirit. It can't be both.

 

[jaybo]

Case in point. Yet, again, using the fallacy of equivocation. Your position is based on erroneous reasoning. Therefore, it can, and should, be rejected.

Robert Pate is correct when he writes, "There are no laws or rules for Christians." Your position is based on erroneous reasoning. Therefore, it can, and must be rejected.

It really saddens me that you don't understand that mature Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps new Christians need teaching for them to understand how they should conduct their lives (as long as that teaching agrees with the gospel and the internal guidance by the Holy Spirit), but Christians are expected to mature and follow the Holy Spirit's guidance. Those of us who have been in Christ do not need a schoolmaster or "drill sergeant" to tell us what to do, thereby preventing us from maturing in Christ.

Again, for the umpteenth time, the Old Covenant is dependent on following an external set of commands and rules. The New Covenant is dependent on internal guidance by the Holy Spirit.

Why, of why, is that so difficult to understand?

Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery."

Even though Paul wrote about circumcision in this part of his letter, it is worth reading to understand the teaching in general. Nobody is considered righteous by observing rules and regulations.

 

[Free]

Robert Pate is correct when he writes, "There are no laws or rules for Christians." Your position is based on erroneous reasoning. Therefore, it can, and must be rejected.

Here is that silly game again.

It really saddens me that you don't understand that mature Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit.

I have not only never said otherwise, I have clearly stated that they are. It's even in the post you just quoted. But, you ignored all that, too.

Perhaps new Christians need teaching for them to understand how they should conduct their lives (as long as that teaching agrees with the gospel and the internal guidance by the Holy Spirit), but Christians are expected to mature and follow the Holy Spirit's guidance. Those of us who have been in Christ do not need a schoolmaster or "drill sergeant" to tell us what to do, thereby preventing us from maturing in Christ.

False dilemma.

Again, for the umpteenth time, the Old Covenant is dependent on following an external set of commands and rules. The New Covenant is dependent on internal guidance by the Holy Spirit.

False dilemma.

Why, of why, is that so difficult to understand?

Because your reasoning is not sound, you ignore much of what the NT has to say, and take at least some things out of context.

Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery."

False dilemma.

Nobody is considered righteous by observing rules and regulations.

Not once have I made that argument. If you think I have, it's because of the fallacy of equivocation that you have used so often. The law of Moses is not the same as the rules and commands for believers.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

Do you agree or disagree that believers are to follow Jesus's commands here?

 

[jaybo]

Here is that silly game again.


I have not only never said otherwise, I have clearly stated that they are. It's even in the post you just quoted. But, you ignored all that, too.


False dilemma.


False dilemma.


Because your reasoning is not sound, you ignore much of what the NT has to say, and take at least some things out of context.


False dilemma.


Not once have I made that argument. If you think I have, it's because of the fallacy of equivocation that you have used so often. The law of Moses is not the same as the rules and commands for believers.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

Do you agree or disagree that believers are to follow Jesus's commands here?

You just can't refrain from insults, can you? When you write something childish like "Here is that silly game again" you are showing your true character. Did God order you to be insulting?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As always, I disagree with you and your erroneous statements.

I am not going to waste my time trying to explain the same things over and over.

If you want to follow what you imagine God's orders to be, go ahead. I call it a sad attempt to be justified by works.

I am justified by faith, not works.

 

[Free]

You just can't refrain from insults, can you? When you write something childish like "Here is that silly game again" you are showing your true character. Did God order you to be insulting?

There is no insult on my part. Simply repeating back to someone a statement they made is insulting and lacking in maturity, and it wasn't even addressed to you.

As always, I disagree with you and your erroneous statements.

You are free to disagree, of course, but you have neither shown how anything I have posted is erroneous nor addressed most of what I have said, even ignoring answer many simple questions.

I am not going to waste my time trying to explain the same things over and over.

It seems that you just don't want to answer simple questions that lead to obvious conclusions, just like the one you ignored above:

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

Do you agree or disagree that believers are to follow Jesus's commands here?

If you want to follow what you imagine God's orders to be, go ahead.

I want to follow all that God commands believers to believe and do in Scripture. That is rather one of the main points of why we have the Bible.

I call it a sad attempt to be justified by works.

Which shows that you haven't understood my arguments at all then.

I am justified by faith, not works.

So am I.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are no laws or rules for Christians, because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. You are not able to believe.

Sorry, but I'll have to say that there are MORE rules/laws for Christians.

Matthew 5:20
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Sounds like the Pharisees weren't doing enough.


Matthew 5:27-28
27“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Now you can't even LOOK at a woman with lust.


Matthew 5:32
32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Moses allowed divorce by giving a certificate.
Jesus doesn't allow divorce except for one exception.

and so on to verse 48.