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Misnomer of Faith without works

Hopeful 2 said:
If you want to obey what is written in the bible, how about starting with 1 Tim 2:12 ?
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I don't teach. I just reveal the Truth that you guys have been dismissing.

So far all your claims have been debunked.

You can run but you cannot hide from Jesus' word.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Faith in a coming Redeemer, and adherence to the Law of Moses.

That was the payment for sins in those bygone days.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, it means..."Torah, in Judaism, in the broadest sense, the substance of divine revelation to Israel, the Jewish people: God’s revealed teaching or guidance for humankind."

It is too bad the Torah couldn't provide what was necessary for rebirth from God's seed.
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Torah according to the Hebrew means instruction, a pointing of the Way to go...salvation has always been by Faith in the coming Redeemer, the promise of the Seed of the woman.

The sacrifices and the oblation came after the nation broke the Covenant and there was no mention of killing animals....obedience to the Voice of Yah has and always will be His protocol.

You never answered my question concerning Paul, lots of christians have problems with Paul because as Kepha said; Paul is hard to understand. When Shaul speaks against the Law we need to know what law he is talking about, is it the Instruction of Yah or is it the Oral Law that man added that is the yoke of burden....did not Yahusha Ha' Masheiac say his burden easy and His yoke light.....considering He was the walking and talking Torah.
 
Robert Pate said:
The thief on the cross was justified by faith alone.
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No one in the Bible is justified by faith alone.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The thief did the good work of confessing the truth of Jesus with His mouth.

The God of the Bible judges our thoughts, words, and deeds all as works.

The natural man only judges acts of the body as works, being blind to the things of the spirit that is in man, but not in beasts of the field.

Man is created in God's image, which is spiritual enlightenment by Christ.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Not everyone reading the Bible understands what the Bible is saying, because they don't take the words literally and believe them as written.

Such as man is not justified by faith alone, but also by works.
 
Consecrated Life said:
How can anybody distinguish with any certainty , whether another person is doing God-approved, or not God-approved good works ?
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If you know who the true God is, you can produce God-approved good works.

You cannot produce good works by worshipping the false god.
 
Robert Pate said:
No one is living blameless in the way of the Lord.
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I've found this sort of personal judgement from other Christians. They judge all men, including all other Christians, by their own manner of life. They believe that since they are not living blamelessly, then no one can.

And yet the Bible exhorts us to do so by the faith of Jesus.

Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

We must first believe the words of the Bible, before we can ever hope to be doers the word, and not readers only.




Robert Pate said:
Because Christians are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, they are able to live above sin,
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This is a contradiction about not being able to live blamelessly, or is some teaching about how living above sin is different from living blamelessly.

Robert Pate said:
The Pharisees were law keeping hypocrites, see Matthew the 23rd chapter.
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True. They had outer righteousness by the law, but inwardly corrupt hearts without faith in the true God.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

That's why they had Him killed, for teaching them they were judged by God to be just as corrupt as them without the law.

The reformation of Jesus is to first have us pure of heart and spirit, that we may be both inwardly and outwardly righteous and blameless altogether.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Not everyone living blamelessly, is a Pharisee. That's only an accusation of the unrighteous against the righteous, in order to justify themselves.
 
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Robert Pate said:
Paul said, "There is none righteous, no not one" Romans 3:10.
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Paul quotes Psalms 53, which is speaking of them that do not believe God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

The Christians that do not believe in doing righteousness and being righteous as the Lord is righteous (1 John 2), often quote the Bible condemning all unbelievers, as also applying to themselves.

While thinking to justify their continued unrighteousness, they actually condemn themselves as unbelievers.

They think that 'everybody's doing it', and so they are just doing what all the world is doing. It's called justification by consensus and mass compliance.

The God of the Bible judges each of us one at at time, and according to our works, not just what we believe.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.


And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 

Robert Pate said:
The Pharisees were law keeping hypocrites, see Matthew the 23rd chapter.
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True. They had outer righteousness by the law, but inwardly corrupt hearts without faith in the true God.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

That's why they had Him killed, for teaching them they were judged by God to be just as corrupt as them without the law.

The reformation of Jesus is to first have us pure of heart and spirit, that we may be both inwardly and outwardly righteous and blameless altogether.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 
Robert Pate said:
but that does not save or justify them.
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The Bible teaches by Paul, that before believing Jesus, none of our own old works in life, with or without the law, can save or justify us with Him. James teaches that our new good works of His righteousness keeps us justified with Him.

Ye see then how that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Paul exhorts the same for all believers of Jesus:

This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

2 Peter 1 commands us to be diligent about virtuous, godly, and charitable living, in order to ensure we enter into and inherit the kingdom of Christ by resurrection from the dead.

The Bible teaches salvation is not a reward for past works, but inheriting the kingdom by resurrection is indeed the reward for serving God.

Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

We can be saved and justified by our own faith alone all we wish in this life, but only serving God in life by the faith of Jesus will resurrect us from the dead unto life.

Man's own faith alone ends in the grave.
 
Robert Pate said:
Jesus is our justifier, Romans 3:26. We are saved and justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus.
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Romans 11 shows us that no one on earth at the cross, and for three days of the grave, was a faithful believer in the true God.

Only after His resurrection and faith in His blood were the first Christians saved.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The doctrine that we're saved because Jesus died, is not the gospel of the cross in the Bible. I've heard that teaching from others who want to believe everyone is now saved, including themselves of course, just because the man Jesus died on earth.

There have been other gospels preached by Christians since the days of Paul. (Gal 1)
 
Free said:
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
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Free said:
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
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I would not dispute your life, since you show no sign in your writings of living sinfully. And I would not doubt that you are faithful example of the believer.

I see the main difference in our arguments of Bible doctrine, is that you translate things of salvation and justification as having been done once for all. But I translate them as continuing to be done daily.

Both by accuracy of translation and overall teaching of the Bible on salvation and justification, we are being saved and being justified daily through faith, with ongoing righteous and good living, and so walking as Jesus walked.

Only those doing so unto the end of this life will inherit eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead.

Free said:
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
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While the other translations you quote are at least acceptable, this one however is not. It is a false translation obviously intending to insert the faith alone without works doctrine.

The basic translation is believing unto righteousness, and confessing unto salvation.

The faith alone doctrine corrupts the Greek by saying we believe and are justified.

Several times Jesus and His apostles speak of obtaining that salvation once for all in the end, not in the beginning.

No man obtains the prize and crown at the beginning of a race.

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

The Bible prize of resurrection unto life is only obtained at the end of the race, and only for them that run the race lawfully unto the end.

2 Peter 1 teaches we can ensure ourselves of obtaining that prize and crown, but only by virtuous, godly, and charitable living.

Bible salvation is only 'irreversible' with the resurrection of the dead unto life. Only those obeying the Lord unto the end will obtain that salvation forever:

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
grace2 said:
If you know who the true God is, you can produce God-approved good works.

You cannot produce good works by worshipping the false god.
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What about the false worshippers of the true God.
How can anyone tell that good works are being done by a false worshiper of the true God ?
 
Consecrated Life said:
What about the false worshippers of the true God.
How can anyone tell that good works are being done by a false worshiper of the true God ?
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I know those who do not worship the true God.

They are triune god worshippers.

Jesus' God is not a triune god, His Father is His God.
 
grace2 said:
Why do you side-track on and on?

Get back to the point I am accusing you of.
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I have talked about nothing in each post but good works as it relates to faith , the subject of the thread.
In particular how can it be established that the basis for person's good works is not a false faith in the true God ?
Good works being performed under the guise of a false faith in the true God certainly falling within the parameters of what qualifies as a " misnomer" .
 
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