Name the Impossible in Hebrews 6:1-8

[ChristDependent]

I really don't have any issues with what you share other than what was already pointed out on the pretrib thingy. That's a slant that you picked up along the trail that I wouldn't bow to myself. But whatever. Certainly not going to start "dividing" over it. I don't have an end time view after 3 decades plus of scripture study and intense examinations of just about every posture under the sun.

What I won't do is condemn other believers to some kind of a two step harvesting process that you propose. I just don't see it that way. And there are scriptural reasons I don't. I can't bear condemning any believer on any basis, even if I disagree with them on some items. I wasn't called into faith to condemn one another. But the opposite. And that was a hard place to get to for me. I'll not be taking myself backwards. Romans 13:8-10 is a very hard place to step into for most believers. And I am no exception. It's just hard. And it is so because of the deep condemnations that most believers practice.

I personally think the "end" is going to be quite entirely glorious, myself. It's a completely opposite view of most end time sights. And I can prove a LOT of it from the scriptures. But I will admit to not having a conventional position because they are all flawed, including my own and including PREtrib.

One day, we shall find out, sooner or later.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I've been involved with a couple Graham crusades myself. Brought people to the stadiums. Prayed with new believers. BG was a great influencer in my believing life, to the good for the most part. I don't know how many times I watched him growing up on the teevee. It would be nice to see someone step up to a similar plate today.

You did not see the apostasy in Billy Graham after having shared to you how making a commitment to follow Christ is not of faith?

See the end result of Billy Graham trying to keep his commitment to follow Christ for the assurance of his salvation.

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/graham2.html

"SNOW: When you get to Heaven, who's going to speak first, you or God?

GRAHAM: When I get there, I'm sure that Jesus is going to say that he
will welcome me. But I think that he's going to say: Well done, our good
and faithful servant. Or he may say: You're in the wrong place.

SNOW: You really worry that you may be told you're in the wrong place?

GRAHAM: Yes, because I have not -- I'm not a righteous man. People put
me up on a pedestal that I don't belong in my personal life. And they
think that I'm better than I am. I'm not the good man that people think
I am. Newspapers and magazines and television have made me out to be a
saint. I'm not. I'm not a Mother Teresa. And I feel that very much."

Jesus Christ has made us saints. At the link to Bible gateway is a list of references to saints in the N.T.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=saints&begin=47&end=73

Then you have him saying that non-believers can be saved.

http://hbcdelivers.org/billy-graham-confirms-salvation-without-faith/

"In an interview published in Newsweek magazine, August 14, Billy Graham confirmed his misguided opinion that men might be saved without faith in Jesus Christ. When asked whether he believes heaven will be “closed to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people,” Graham replied: “Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his Son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have” (“Pilgrim’s Progress,” Newsweek, Aug. 14, 2006)."

Billy Graham is a saint, but a false prophet. He is laboring in unbelief and coming short of that rest in Jesus by trying to keep that commitment to follow Christ for the assurance of His salvation.

So lean on Jesus at that throne of grace for being your Good Shepherd to discern all the popular "christian" leaders today as we are to prove everything by Him.

Luke 6:46 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

Billy Graham needs our prayers & all those misled by him.

This is why God is coming to judge His House first at the pre trib rapture event because He is going to deal with the falling away from the faith first before He comes back with the pre trib rapture saints to deal with Satan and the world's armies at the end of the great tribulation. Jesus really is the Good Shepherd.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

So if that brother does not repent and gets excommunicated, and even again when God judges His House, Jesus will get the ones that were left behind in spite of the "ninety nines" He had raptured.

 

[ChristDependent]

Hebrews Chapter 10 says if we hold fast the profession of faith, which is Christ Jesus the one time only sacrifice for sin, then we are His forever.

Cite the verse please because I am not reading that in that way.

When we come to know truth, but keep holding fast to sin after knowing the truth then there is no more sacrifice for sin and we will pay the consequences for the sin we knowingly commit. If we are knowing or falling back to a sinful nature then we are not holding fast to faith in Christ Jesus as sin will be our destruction.

It will be a destruction when the vessel unto honour be destroyed into becoming vessels unto dishonour.

But in that chapter, it is written that they are still His people in spite of this sin.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people

 

[for_his_glory]

Cite the verse please because I am not reading that in that way.



It will be a destruction when the vessel unto honour be destroyed into becoming vessels unto dishonour.

But in that chapter, it is written that they are still His people in spite of this sin.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

We can say we have faith, but if we are not entering into the holiest by the blood of Jesus and continue to willingly sin knowing we are sinning then that makes the sacrifice of the blood of Christ void in our life and we are none of His and heading to our own destruction

 

[smaller]

One day, we shall find out, sooner or later.

There is plenty to be had in the now and plenty enough room to share. But, yes, we always hope for more and better. Sunshine, green and bluebirds singin for everyone.

You did not see the apostasy in Billy Graham after having shared to you how making a commitment to follow Christ is not of faith?

I just can't put those shoes on anymore. If the Gospel of Christ is preached in pretence and Paul rejoiced regardless, I suspect his faith in Christ was greater than in the people. Phil. 1:8

See the end result of Billy Graham trying to keep his commitment to follow Christ for the assurance of his salvation.

I honestly don't know where Mr. Graham is on OSAS. And honestly don't care. I do think he had an honest enough proclamation and effort to bring faith in Christ to a LOT of people. What Jesus did or does with them from there is entirely His Business. I do think Mr. Graham was nicely softer and far more gracious, having grown in same, near the end of his life. And in doing that the hardliners always cry foul. Not much different than politics.

Then you have him saying that non-believers can be saved.

http://hbcdelivers.org/billy-graham-confirms-salvation-without-faith/

"In an interview published in Newsweek magazine, August 14, Billy Graham confirmed his misguided opinion that men might be saved without faith in Jesus Christ. When asked whether he believes heaven will be “closed to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people,” Graham replied: “Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his Son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have” (“Pilgrim’s Progress,” Newsweek, Aug. 14, 2006)."

Our own witnessing will ALWAYS depend on how high we set our own imposed hurdles to "get there." I have a very very low hurdle when I witness. Low enough to meet anyone on any ground. And that pleases my internals, greatly.

Jesus met me exactly where I was at the time. At perhaps the lowest point in my life, as a very young and ambitious man of the world. I'm so glad He met me when He did cause it turned out I was sorely in need.

Billy Graham is a saint, but a false prophet. He is laboring in unbelief and coming short of that rest in Jesus by trying to keep that commitment to follow Christ for the assurance of His salvation.

I don't consider Graham too much of a doctrinal shill. He made the call to Christ very easy. Perhaps like no other on that scale. And a lot of people didn't care for that methodology. I think he was right to make it easy.

So lean on Jesus at that throne of grace for being your Good Shepherd to discern all the popular "christian" leaders today as we are to prove everything by Him.

Luke 6:46 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

Billy Graham needs our prayers & all those misled by him.

Why? Because he didn't preach pre-trib? Didn't publicly proclaim OSAS? I'd hardly fault him for either.

This is why God is coming to judge His House first at the pre trib rapture event because He is going to deal with the falling away from the faith first before He comes back with the pre trib rapture saints to deal with Satan and the world's armies at the end of the great tribulation. Jesus really is the Good Shepherd.

Well, I see what you use pretrib for. It is just another pretence to divide, and to make a person think they are better than others. I just don't see things that way myself. And can't. Probably never will. Romans 3:9 and Gal. 3:22 put me down where I belong.

So if that brother does not repent and gets excommunicated, and even again when God judges His House, Jesus will get the ones that were left behind in spite of the "ninety nines" He had raptured.

If I had a nickel for every believer posing every posture imaginable to condemn me and mine, I'd retire a millionaire. It was this practice that got me moving away from the hell fire seat for believers. I just have no interest in taking on that chair for any reason. But I DO hope it burns the behind of everyone that tries to sit in it, just so they have a taste for themselves.

 

[ChristDependent]

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

We can say we have faith, but if we are not entering into the holiest by the blood of Jesus and continue to willingly sin knowing we are sinning then that makes the sacrifice of the blood of Christ void in our life and we are none of His and heading to our own destruction

Sin in the life of a believer doesn't void what was done by the blood of Christ. It just means they are not abiding in Him as His disciple as in maintaining that fellowship with the Father & the Son. He still abies in the believer even if they stop believing in Him.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Once bought, your body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit; and although the body may be destroyed if any one defiles that temple of God, the foundation is sure having His seal which is why all believers, and even former believers are still called to depart from iniquity by looking to Jesus for help as it is the works on that foundation that will be done away with; not the sure foundation which can never be removed.

 

[ChristDependent]

Why? Because he didn't preach pre-trib? Didn't publicly proclaim OSAS? I'd hardly fault him for either.

If you fault the RCC for putting the works of catholicism in the path of the believer, then you have to fault Billy Graham for bringing believers into bondage to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit as they are laboring in unbelief and coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ..

 

[smaller]

If you fault the RCC for putting the works of catholicism in the path of the believer,

I have quite a few catholic friends and relatives. You expect me to condemn them? That's just not going to happen. Most of them are clueless about theology anyway. If they think they might be saved, then let them eat their Savior every week and leave it at that. I just have no use to try to condemn them. They can believe what they want. Fortunately I don't have to. Phil. 1:8.

Can Christ use Mr. Graham? Assuredly. Can Christ use the Pope. Yep. Does that make either one of them something other than they are in the flesh? Nope. In that way we are ALL equally wrong.

We all sit under a certain amount of "catholic" legitimate scriptural determinations in any case. So there are some things in common.

then you have to fault Billy Graham for bringing believers into bondage to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit as they are laboring in unbelief and coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ..

I know a lot of believers who have to take that route to control their own flesh. So I don't blame them for trying. I do see it as a trap, personally. But it's a trap that no one but Christ can get them out of in any case. Jesus really does try to move us to honesty, but I don't think that effort is all that successful with any flesh, and it can't be. Because you see the flesh really IS against the Spirit, and vice versa. That won't change for anyone for any reason. Gal. 5:17. We seldom like to see Jesus coming from that direction, as the Adversary of our own hides. But to that end, His Own Power WILL change us all who believe. Phil. 3:21.

So, today, I hope to witness a little, rejoice in His Resurrection, and eat too much.

Happy Easter!

 

[ChristDependent]

I have quite a few catholic friends and relatives. You expect me to condemn them? That's just not going to happen. Most of them are clueless about theology anyway. If they think they might be saved, then let them eat their Savior every week and leave it at that. I just have no use to try to condemn them. They can believe what they want. Fortunately I don't have to. Phil. 1:8.

Can Christ use Mr. Graham? Assuredly. Can Christ use the Pope. Yep. Does that make either one of them something other than they are in the flesh? Nope. In that way we are ALL equally wrong.

We all sit under a certain amount of "catholic" legitimate scriptural determinations in any case. So there are some things in common.

I know a lot of believers who have to take that route to control their own flesh. So I don't blame them for trying. I do see it as a trap, personally. But it's a trap that no one but Christ can get them out of in any case. Jesus really does try to move us to honesty, but I don't think that effort is all that successful with any flesh, and it can't be. Because you see the flesh really IS against the Spirit, and vice versa. That won't change for anyone for any reason. Gal. 5:17. We seldom like to see Jesus coming from that direction, as the Adversary of our own hides. But to that end, His Own Power WILL change us all who believe. Phil. 3:21.

So, today, I hope to witness a little, rejoice in His Resurrection, and eat too much.

Happy Easter!

It is not about us condemning the believers as if they are not saved, because they are saved regardless, but we are to condemn the works that deny Him so that God may be peradventuring in leading them to repentance and be found abiding in Him as His disciples.

 

[iLOVE]

The bible doesn't teach "sinless perfection.
2 Peter 1:5-11 NIV, John 14:27 NIV, Colossians 3:15 NCV, Romans 12 NCV, James 1:7-8 NASB

Repentance means change of mind. Willful sin means unbelief...you don't believe what Jesus did so there is no more sacrifice.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sin in the life of a believer doesn't void what was done by the blood of Christ. It just means they are not abiding in Him as His disciple as in maintaining that fellowship with the Father & the Son. He still abies in the believer even if they stop believing in Him.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Once bought, your body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit; and although the body may be destroyed if any one defiles that temple of God, the foundation is sure having His seal which is why all believers, and even former believers are still called to depart from iniquity by looking to Jesus for help as it is the works on that foundation that will be done away with; not the sure foundation which can never be removed.

Yes, the love of God is always there for His creation, but yet at one time it repented God for creating man in the first place as they became evil in all their ways. If it would not be for Noah whom God found favor in man would have ceased to exist anymore, Genesis 6:5-8. Even today and up to the time of Christ return after the seven trumpet and vial judgments of Revelations God is still waiting for a remnant to repent as only God knows the heart and the name of the very last one who will repent before that door of salvation is closed forever.

Upon receiving Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior by the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:3-6; Romans 10:9,10 we are also sealed at that time by His Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, 2Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 4:30. All things will be forgiven except that of Matthew 12:31,33 as we either make the tree good and his fruit good or else we corrupt it. The tree being that of Christ and the fruit being that of the fruits of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22,23.

 

[ChristDependent]

The bible doesn't teach "sinless perfection.
2 Peter 1:5-11 NIV, John 14:27 NIV, Colossians 3:15 NCV, Romans 12 NCV, James 1:7-8 NASB

Repentance means change of mind.

Repentance as far as salvation goes mean repenting from unbelief by believing in Him. It is those that do not even believe in His name that are already condemned, thus those that do believe in Him, even in His name, are saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Willful sin means unbelief

Believers have sinned even while still believing in Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

...you don't believe what Jesus did so there is no more sacrifice.

If a believer stops believing in Jesus, he or she is still bought and sealed as His as He is still in them.

2 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[iLOVE]

If a believer stops believing in Jesus, he or she is still bought and sealed as His as He is still in them.

Very, very dangerous post!

 

[ChristDependent]

Very, very dangerous post!

Yes. But I am beating a dead horse about how God will judge believers and even former believers at the pre trib rapture event where those saved that did not look to Him for help in departing from iniquity, will be left behind to face the fire coming on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation.2

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of their first inheritance, but they will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

But you still have to deal with this undeniable truth.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[iLOVE]

If a believer stops believing in Jesus, he or she is still bought and sealed as His as He is still in them.

Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others., Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. Was Judas saved? Or did He go to hell?

24And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place." Acts 1:24-25 NASB

Warnings Against Denying the Son
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us... 1 John 2:18-27 NIV

Yes. But I am beating a dead horse about how God will judge believers and even former believers at the pre trib rapture event where those saved that did not look to Him for help in departing from iniquity, will be left behind to face the fire coming on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation.2

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of their first inheritance, but they will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

It sounds like you are double minded now!

 

[ChristDependent]

Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others., Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. Was Judas saved? Or did He go to hell?

24And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place." Acts 1:24-25 NASB

Judas Iscariot was never a believer.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

The filling that His disciples had received was not the promise from the Father, because Jesus was still with them. They were not born again until Jesus had ascended. His remaining disciples were saved at Pentecost, and not before so that they share the same testimony as every other believer in how they had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ. Scripture supports this at this link below.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...his-disciples-were-actually-born-again.63928/

Warnings Against Denying the Son
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us... 1 John 2:18-27 NIV

It sounds like you are double minded now!

This is referring to the firstfruits as being separated from those that be left behind as Christ's at His coming. Those not found abiding in Him will be denied; but He still abides which is why they will be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why those who serve Him, do so in the hopes He is ministering to them in getting them ready for the Bridegroom so they can be received as a vessel unto honour in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So yes... those who deny Him will be denied, but He still abides. It is written.

 

[Cygnus]

Once saved is always saved, but not every believer will be found ready and abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House to the Marriage Supper.

Those judged by God to be left behind at the pre trib rapture for not looking to Him for help in departing from iniquity, will be received later on, after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, because they are still His.

Now if you need the scripture, go back to read them with His help in my replies to you about this.

I don't agree with the statement "Those judged by God to be left behind at the pre trib rapture for not looking to Him for help in departing from iniquity, will be received later on, after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, because they are still His."

At the pre-trib rapture all believers still alive will be raptured. I've never read anything thing that suggest a partial rapture.

 

[iLOVE]

Judas Iscariot was never a believer.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

The filling that His disciples had received was not the promise from the Father, because Jesus was still with them. They were not born again until Jesus had ascended. His remaining disciples were saved at Pentecost, and not before so that they share the same testimony as every other believer in how they had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ. Scripture supports this at this link below.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...his-disciples-were-actually-born-again.63928/



This is referring to the firstfruits as being separated from those that be left behind as Christ's at His coming. Those not found abiding in Him will be denied; but He still abides which is why they will be received as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why those who serve Him, do so in the hopes He is ministering to them in getting them ready for the Bridegroom so they can be received as a vessel unto honour in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So yes... those who deny Him will be denied, but He still abides. It is written.

Denying Christ is a serious dangerous sin - Matthew 10:32-33. You are preaching a different gospel Galatians 1:6-10 NKJV

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV means you can't sin your salvation away, however you can renounce it. You can reject your faith. God had made it so difficult to do unless you meet the five qualifications mentioned in this scripture as a mature Christian and ignorance does not count. So it is possible but God has made it extremely difficult.

The Lord’s Grace to Paul

"12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 1:12-14

Jesus Grace tops sin. All Christians are Holy, sanctified, and righteous by what Jesus did, not by what we do. Being Holy, sanctified, and righteous is not based on your behavior. If you believe in Jesus and believe what the blood has done you are Holy, sanctified, righteous, and redeemed. Your spirit has been sealed with Jesus so the good can't get out, and the bad can't get in. Hebrews 10:10 says, "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." The question is do you believe it?

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, = Unbelief, you do not believe Jesus is the finial sacrifice for your sins. Which means there are no more sacrifices.

 

[ChristDependent]

I don't agree with the statement "Those judged by God to be left behind at the pre trib rapture for not looking to Him for help in departing from iniquity, will be received later on, after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, because they are still His."

At the pre-trib rapture all believers still alive will be raptured. I've never read anything thing that suggest a partial rapture.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

This warning from Jesus isn't for nonbelievers if they will be cut off to have their portions with unbelievers.

And do note that even after being cut off, and receiving their stripes, they are still called His servants.

 

[ChristDependent]

Denying Christ is a serious dangerous sin - Matthew 10:32-33. You are preaching a different gospel Galatians 1:6-10 NKJV

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV means you can't sin your salvation away, however you can renounce it. You can reject your faith. God had made it so difficult to do unless you meet the five qualifications mentioned in this scripture as a mature Christian and ignorance does not count. So it is possible but God has made it extremely difficult.

The Lord’s Grace to Paul

"12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 1:12-14

Jesus Grace tops sin. All Christians are Holy, sanctified, and righteous by what Jesus did, not by what we do. Being Holy, sanctified, and righteous is not based on your behavior. If you believe in Jesus and believe what the blood has done you are Holy, sanctified, righteous, and redeemed. Your spirit has been sealed with Jesus so the good can't get out, and the bad can't get in. Hebrews 10:10 says, "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." The question is do you believe it?

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, = Unbelief, you do not believe Jesus is the finial sacrifice for your sins. Which means there are no more sacrifices.

What you have shared does not null and void the scripture I had already shared with you. Please address those scripture to explain what they actually mean if they do not apply as I have been using them for.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Explain 2 Timothy 2:13 if nothing else.

 

[Cygnus]

Judas was baptizes. Judas baptizes others., Judas was anointed. Judas was empowered. Judas cast out Devils. Judas healed the sick. Judas preached the gospel. Was Judas saved? Or did He go to hell?

The bible mentions people who professed a faith in Christ...some people will say prophesy, some people will cast out devils, some will do mighty works...

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Just because Judas did what you said above doesn't mean Judas was ever saved in the first place.