Name the Impossible in Hebrews 6:1-8

[for_his_glory]

To call the pre-tribulation rapture a "heresy" is utter nonsense. If anything, it is closer to Bible truth than any other view. NOT ONCE will you find the Rapture connected with the Tribulation period in any Scripture. Indeed, Christ says in connection with the Rapture "let not your heart be troubled". Please note the words of Christ carefully as stated below (John 14:1-4):

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

A few of us got sidetracked from the OP with the pretrib so I would suggest if you would like to start a new thread on that in the End Times forum I would love to respond to you there instead of derailing the OP. Thanks and God bless.

 

[ChristDependent]

I'm a sister, LOL. Matthew 24 is a basic outline Jesus is giving the disciples of those things which will come to pass, before the great and terrible day of the Lord as even now, as from the beginning, until the end these things will become world wide and not just localized. The important thing is just be ready for when Jesus returns.

Sorry about that, sister.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying,

#1. Tell us, when shall these things be?

#2. and what shall be the sign of thy coming,

#3. and of the end of the world?

The next verse is not the answer about when the Temple will be thrown down, now is it?

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

The sign of his coming is before the pre trib rapture; and the sign of the end of the world is the time of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

That is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth because all those that take the mark of the beast to buy & sell will go to the lake of fire...no ifs, nor buts about it. That being said...

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

How can those days of the elect be shortened? The pre trib rapture as the following verses go back to the signs of His coming with all of these false prophets about...until this verse..

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That is the same event described in Luke 21:33.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The cares of this life will not be a snare to the saints when there is a war on them as it will be worse at the end of the great tribulation. There is an escape from what is coming on the earth as Peter described that fiery judgment in 2 Peter 3rd chapter in more detail as it is liken unto the judgment of the global flood as something that will happen on the earth after the rapture.

Time to get ready now by His grace & by His help at that throne of grace.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry about that, sister.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying,

#1. Tell us, when shall these things be?

#2. and what shall be the sign of thy coming,

#3. and of the end of the world?

The next verse is not the answer about when the Temple will be thrown down, now is it?

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

The sign of his coming is before the pre trib rapture; and the sign of the end of the world is the time of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

That is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth because all those that take the mark of the beast to buy & sell will go to the lake of fire...no ifs, nor buts about it. That being said...

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

How can those days of the elect be shortened? The pre trib rapture as the following verses go back to the signs of His coming with all of these false prophets about...until this verse..

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That is the same event described in Luke 21:33.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The cares of this life will not be a snare to the saints when there is a war on them as it will be worse at the end of the great tribulation. There is an escape from what is coming on the earth as Peter described that fiery judgment in 2 Peter 3rd chapter in more detail as it is liken unto the judgment of the global flood as something that will happen on the earth after the rapture.

Time to get ready now by His grace & by His help at that throne of grace.

Like I said if anyone wants to start a new thread in the End times forum where it belongs I will be glad to discuss there as this OP is not about the Rapture and I will respect that of the OP. Thanks.

 

[smaller]

There is no loss of salvation, just understanding and will let it at that, God bless you.

Your claim is that salvation is based on understanding and acknowledging OSAS and acknowledging pre-trib, at least for some (imaginary to me) 2 fold process. Those are what I might term "sectarian" erections, not necessarily what scripture presents.

Let's look at a couple of facts about all believers.

We all have a vile body, with sin dwelling in it and evil present with us all. Phil. 3:12, Romans 7:17-21. We are in this present state of affairs. All of us and all people, likewise.

Just because someone believes some particular angles doesn't mean the above states are dealt differently with them than with other believers. That to me is only a sectarian sight, using it to perform the God will bless me first and the others later. I would propose that the "real" issues we all face are universal to every believer.

And from this comes the basis for the great divide among the body, some seeing themselves NOW entirely saved, when that is not the case in view of the vile body, and others recognizing the vile body might not be saved and seeking to make it what it will never be.

These sights would be equally vain.

 

[for_his_glory]

Your claim is that salvation is based on understanding and acknowledging OSAS and acknowledging pre-trib, at least for some (imaginary to me) 2 fold process. Those are what I might term "sectarian" erections, not necessarily what scripture presents.

I never claimed any of that plus I do not believe in a pretrib rapture as it is not taught in scripture. This is what I believe and please do not twist it nor direct it to the flesh as you like to draw attention to.

Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul. Salvation comes by that of John 3:3-6 and Romans 10:9,10 as we confess we are sinners needing Gods grace. It is Gods grace that pardons our sin and it's Gods mercy that loves us unconditionally. We are only sealed by the Holy Spirit and not saved at that time until the day of redemption, Matthew 24:13; 2Cor 1:22; Eph 1:13; 4:30, meaning when Christ returns and we are gathered to the Marriage Supper with Christ, Rev 19, and then at that moment we are saved meaning our names are found in the book of life and we will stand before the judgement seat of Christ, 2Cor 5:10, as He opens the book of life and judges us on the works we did for Him whether they are good or bad as our rewards are given at that time. There are two end time judgments as one is Christ seat and the other Gods Great White throne judgment were those who are not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:11-15. I do not believe in OSAS as there are many that face tribulations, especially those at the great and terrible day of the Lord when Gods wrath is poured out during the seven trumpet and seven vial judgments of God, that will blasphemy the Holy Spirit and denounce Christ and take the mark of the beast to save their own lives.

 

[smaller]

I never claimed any of that plus I do not believe in a pretrib rapture as it is not taught in scripture. This is what I believe and please do not twist it nor direct it to the flesh as you like to draw attention to.

My apologies. It WAS meant for ChristDependent. I may have accidentally cut out the wrong portion of the post I was responding to.

MY BAD.

And you won't hear that too often...:nod

This was his quote that I meant to address in that post:

"At the pre trib rapture, if the former believer does not repent, then He will deny them, BUT even though they believe not any more, He still abides in them which is why there will be vessels unto dishonour in His House."

There are errors in the above posture.

 

[for_his_glory]

My apologies. It WAS meant for ChristDependent. I may have accidentally cut out the wrong portion of the post I was responding to.

MY BAD.

And you won't hear that too often...:nod

This was his quote that I meant to address in that post:

"At the pre trib rapture, if the former believer does not repent, then He will deny them, BUT even though they believe not any more, He still abides in them which is why there will be vessels unto dishonour in His House."

There are errors in the above posture.

Thank you for clearing that up and apology accepted

 

[Cygnus]

Jesus has two comings in the future.
First in the clouds, just like He left...PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

Then the second time Jesus will be on a horse.