No condemnation in Christ Jesus !

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is absolutely no way one can be condemned by God, who is in Christ Jesus, and who walks not after the flesh [unregenerated] but after the Spirit [regenerated].

The first part of this verse needs some clarification, before we can rightly understand the second part " who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit"

When exactly is the believer ever in Christ Jesus ? How did they get into Christ Jesus in the first place ?

To answer the first question, the believer, before they believed or before they were physically born into this world, were in Christ Jesus before the World began. 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So the believer, before the world began was in Christ Jesus representatively in the Covenant of Grace, before the world began. Thats why it is stated that Grace was given them in Christ Jesus at that early date, how else can we understand " Grace which was given us" It was given to their Head and Representative of the Seed, His Seed Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Chosen seed ! Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The Chosen generation which means seed or the Chosen seed 1 Pet 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Now secondly, How did they get into Christ Jesus in the first place ? By God the Fathers good pleasure 1 Cor 1:29-30

29That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That no flesh can boast of themselves being the cause of their being in Christ, Paul says it's of God [Father] that ye are in Christ Jesus, and He was made all those things unto them as He was made their Covenant Head and Surety, He is made unto them wisdom, and righteousness,and sanctification and redemption [of the body in the future].

So to these, even before they believed were in Christ, and therefore they were never under Condemnation, even as being born sinners and dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[Webb]

There is only ONE way we find ourselves "IN" Christ: Gal.3:26,27

 

[savedbygrace57]

Who walk according to the Spirit !

Now after the statement:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus:

Its followed by this:

who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Now what does this mean ? It means simply, the ones who are no longer in darkness, but now walk in God's Marvelous light 1 Pet 2:9. It means those who have had the Gospel revealed to them and in them by the Spirit 1 Cor 2:10

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Now they walk by Faith and not by sight. And so the word NOW does not mean that they were once condemned and now they are not, but that now, one knows it to be True. When and before the elect sinner is brought to Faith in Christ, they know nothing of their eternal union with Christ, they knew nothing of their legal Justification before God because of Christ Righteousness having been laid to their Charge. Sure they have been passed from darkness to light, and from death unto life, both of which are subjective experiences of the New Birth of the Holy Spirit, but their legal standing upon the merits of Christ has never changed. So upon this never changing legal standing, that there was no Condemnation in Christ, and so thats how it is Now ! God could never lay them under condemnation simply because He decided before the world began to lay their legal condemnation on Christ their Legal Head and Surety, and that decision freed them personally from that legal condemnation of their sins. This good news is revealed to each of them in the Gospel in God's time. Rom 1:16-17

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And this begins their life of Faith, their walk according to the Spirit !

 

[Webb]

Will you tell us how one arrives into Christ that all the above may take place?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Will you tell us how one arrives into Christ that all the above may take place?

see post 1

 

[Webb]

Well I've looked at "post 1" and this is what you wrote: ''NOW SECONDLY, HOW DID THEY GET INTO CHRIST IN THE FITRST PLACE? BY GOD THE FATHERS GOOD PLEASURE''. For that you cited I Cor.1:29,30.

Yes, it is by God's good pleasure! Its ALL by God's good pleasure. But HOW is that done through "God's good pleasure"? By baptism into Christ, of course: Gal.3:27; Rom.6:3,4.

 

[savedbygrace57]

webb:

Yes, it is by God's good pleasure!

Thats my answer, along with that they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation. Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I added 1 Pet 2:9


So again, if you want my view on the matter, read my posts, start back at post 1.

 

[savedbygrace57]

In Him Representatively !

We have Looked at the Fact that those who are in Christ are first in Him by Election, that is they were before the foundation of the World Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4 and even then, Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now How was Grace given them in Him before the world began ? Because He was their Head and Representative, and they were His Seed.

It's the same Principle as when its written that Levi Paid tithes to Melchizedek when he was yet in his Father's loins. Heb 7:9-10

9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Now the same principle applies, The Chosen in Christ received or was given Grace while in the Spiritual Loins of their Spiritual Father Christ Jesus.

That's why Christ is seen as The Everlasting Father, because His seed was setup in Him from everlasting Isa 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He could only be a Father if He has a progeny or offspring. Isa 53:10 confirms He does vs 10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now, if all this be True, which I know it is, then Christ Chosen seed in Him before the world began, then there was no condemnation to them, not ever !

 

[Pizzaguy]

webb:
Thats my answer, along with that they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation. Eph 1:4

So again, if you want my view on the matter, read my posts, start back at post 1.

No need. I think we all know what you think... based on how your threads are pretty much all about the same thing.

 

[Webb]

I still believe you need to reconcile yor belief with such passages as Gal.3:26,27 which stand in contradiction to your comments on the passages you offer.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I still believe you need to reconcile yor belief with such passages as Gal.3:26,27 which stand in contradiction to your comments on the passages you offer.

There is no contradiction Gal 3:26-27 are as factual as what I have already posted. Its just something in addition to what I have said, not opposed to it. Those verses by no means undo that the Chosen were in Christ before the world began, or that they were in Him Representatively as His seed. Those verses do not contradict that. If they do, you have failed in explaining in detail as I have done for my view, how !

 

[Webb]

Hello Saved by grace

You wrote: ''THOSE VERSES (Gal.3:27 & Rom.6:3,4, par. mine, Webb) BY NO MEANS UNDO THAT THE CHOSEN WERE IN CHRIST BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN---"

please difine the above. Do you mean certain individuals or otherwise?

 

[savedbygrace57]

In Him By Substitution !

This Representative Union whereby the elect are in Christ by Eternal Election having been Chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, it carries on into time, the Time of His Incarnation. His People was in Him when He came and took His Place under the Law Gal 4:4

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

He took on the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

He took on their Flesh and blood Heb 2:14a

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;

Made like unto His Brethren Heb 2:17a

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,

And so He solidified the Truth of Eph 5:30

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Now this was so much so, that they were in Him as He was fulfilling the Law on Earth, and so He said to John the Baptist when He was prepared to be water baptized .but John forbade Him, Then Jesus Said this:

Matt 3:15

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

The Us means His body, those He represented ! Johns Baptism was a Baptism of Repentance, and in and of Himself Christ needed no Repentance, but those He represented in Him did.

Not only That, but when He actually died and was buried , and rose again the Third day, His seed in Him did also, for that's Paul's meaning Rom 6:2-5

2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

2 Cor 5:14-15

14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15And that he died for[In behalf of] all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.


Eph 2:6

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Now how be this Togetherness except they were in Him ? And He was their substitute. Thats what made it legally binding, a Legal Union with them He had, for they were His Seed, His Offspring.

 

[Webb]

Saved by grace: Are these elect ones in Christ before the foundation of the world individuals? Or, are they "whosoever wills" who would obey Christ after the foundation of the world? Tell us plainlly!

 

[savedbygrace57]

web:

Saved by grace: Are these elect ones in Christ before the foundation of the world individuals?

I have already indicated who they are in the previous posts ! Read !

 

[Webb]

Guess you are not realy sure or you would have given a simple answer.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Guess you are not realy sure or you would have given a simple answer.

See previous posts. I believe this subject is way over your head. The questions you are asking have already been answered..

 

[Webb]

lIn the space you took in your last post you could have answered the question.

 

[savedbygrace57]

lIn the space you took in your last post you could have answered the question.

Last time:


See previous posts

 

[Webb]

Reading your previous posts I conclude the scriptures you cite do not support your case.

If you think all this is "over my head" as you suggest, perhaps you will arrange for a one on one or as this forum calls is a "private study". Then we shall see.