Obey God or never enter Heaven!

[Thankful1]

Obey God or never enter Heaven!

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!â€


Sinning is not obeying God.

One who is begotten by God will not sin. One has to be begotten to enter the kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.â€

 

[Knotical]

It would appear that you are forgetting about forgiveness. Sure, sin separates us from God, but He provided a way for that to be washed away, thus facilitating salvation.

 

[Thankful1]

It would appear that you are forgetting about forgiveness. Sure, sin separates us from God, but He provided a way for that to be washed away, thus facilitating salvation.

Yes infants in Christ will still sin and do need an advocate to plead for them, but when one is begotten by God/becomes spiritual he or she will not sin.

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?â€

A person begotten by God will not sin, and if they do then there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-27) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

 

[Knotical]

Yes infants in Christ will still sin and do need an advocate to plead for them, but when one is begotten by God/becomes spiritual he or she will not sin.

If you are referring to Jesus, then yes He is incapable of sinning, but if you are referring to anyone who accepts Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior who are unable to sin that is a complete fallacy. I am a Christian yet I am still able to sin, however, I do have the grace of God that will take away that sin should I repent and ask forgiveness.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

A person has to do obedient works to become a Christian, Jn 8:24 Lk 13:3,5 Mt 10:32,33 Mk 16:16 and after becoming a Christian a person must do good works to remain a Christian, Eph 2:10 Mt 25:31-46.

So it is impossible to be saved without doing any works.

 

[Knotical]

A person has to do obedient works to become a Christian, Jn 8:24 Lk 13:3,5 Mt 10:32,33 Mk 16:16 and after becoming a Christian a person must do good works to remain a Christian, Eph 2:10 Mt 25:31-46.

So it is impossible to be saved without doing any works.

Absolutely untrue. What you are describing is from the original covenant of works, which was replaced, by Jesus on the cross, with the covenant of grace.

 

[Drew]

It would appear that you are forgetting about forgiveness. Sure, sin separates us from God, but He provided a way for that to be washed away, thus facilitating salvation.

Although your statement here is brief, I believe I agree with the general sentiment of the OP. I politely suggest that the reformed belief that one is justified by faith, and that "good works" are not needed for final salvation simply does not pass Biblical muster. Note this statement from Paul:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

How is this not a statement that eternal life is granted according to (Paul's words, not mine) what we have done (Paul's words, not mine).

 

[Drew]

Yes infants in Christ will still sin and do need an advocate to plead for them, but when one is begotten by God/becomes spiritual he or she will not sin.

This, I do not think can be supported Biblically, even though, as per my last post, I believe that 'good works' are necessary for justification. More specifically, I see no Biblical case that "perfect sinlessness" is either attainable, or needed in order to be justified at the end.

 

[Drew]

So it is impossible to be saved without doing any works.

Agree.

 

[Drew]

Absolutely untrue. What you are describing is from the original covenant of works, which was replaced, by Jesus on the cross, with the covenant of grace.

Can you defend your position, Biblically?

What do you think Paul is saying here:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

 

[Knotical]

Works are not required for salvation, all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them. Anything that you do is how you worship God and give thanks for the sacrafice He made in providing you with Salvation.

 

[Drew]

Works are not required for salvation, all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them. Anything that you do is how you worship God and give thanks for the sacrafice He made in providing you with Salvation.

Here we go again....

This is simply a statement. Anyone can make a statement. Please defend this view Biblically.

One challenge to your position is this statement from Paul:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

This statement is what it is - an assertion that eternal life will be granted according to good works.

What is your response to this? What do you think Paul is saying here?

 

[Knotical]

Here we go again....

This is simply a statement. Anyone can make a statement. Please defend this view Biblically.

One challenge to your position is this statement from Paul:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

This statement is what it is - an assertion that eternal life will be granted according to good works.

What is your response to this? What do you think Paul is saying here?

The verse you reference, without actually calling out the book-chapter-verse by the way, has to do with what rewards you will receive in heaven upon doing good works here on earth, but it is still not a requirement for salvation.

 

[Thankful1]

Works are not required for salvation, all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them. Anything that you do is how you worship God and give thanks for the sacrafice He made in providing you with Salvation.

Read what Jesus said one needed to do for the kingdom of God to be with him or her. To be in the kingdom of God one needs to:
(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.â€

 

[John 8:32]

Absolutely untrue. What you are describing is from the original covenant of works, which was replaced, by Jesus on the cross, with the covenant of grace.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Drew]

The verse you reference, without actually calling out the book-chapter-verse by the way, has to do with what rewards you will receive in heaven upon doing good works here on earth, but it is still not a requirement for salvation.

This is simply not what Paul actually writes!!! Here it is again (from Romans 2)

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

We must read the text as it is, not rework it to means something else.

How are we rewarded?: according to what we have done.

What is the reward? Eternal life. Not rewards over and above eternal life, but eternal life itself. That's how it reads - please do not revise the text to mean something else.

I never cease to be amazed at how people bend the meaning of a simple statement beyond recognition.

Please: feel free to argue there is a translation error, or that Paul has preceded this statement with something like: I am about to characterize a mistaken view.

But, please, do not tell us that this statement, read as a simple assertion in English, is not saying "eternal life is granted according to what one was done"

That is clearly what it is saying, and no amount of hard wishing will change this.

Please deal with the text, not a reworked version of it.

 

[Knotical]

Read what Jesus said one needed to do for the kingdom of God to be with him or her. To be in the kingdom of God one needs to:
(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

But He did not make that a requirement for salvation. To start you can look at John 3:16. Next take a look at John 10:1-5.

There is only one way to salvation, and works is not it.

 

[John 8:32]

This, I do not think can be supported Biblically, even though, as per my last post, I believe that 'good works' are necessary for justification. More specifically, I see no Biblical case that "perfect sinlessness" is either attainable, or needed in order to be justified at the end.

I think Paul disagrees...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This was written 21 to 24 years after being struck down on the road to Damascus (Acts 9). At this point, Paul said he was not perfect, not sinless.

 

[John 8:32]

Obey God or never enter Heaven!

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!â€


Sinning is not obeying God.

One who is begotten by God will not sin. One has to be begotten to enter the kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.â€

No one goes to Heaven, so technically, "Obey God or never enter Heaven" is meaningless.

 

[Drew]

This was written 21 to 24 years after being struck down on the road to Damascus (Acts 9). At this point, Paul said he was not perfect, not sinless.

I think there is some confusion. I am agreeing that Christians still sin after conversion, despite best efforts.