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Obey God or never enter Heaven!

There is simply too much difference between us in terms of our views about what constitutes proper argumentation. Again, no hard feelings. I may continue to post, but I will no longer be responding to your posts. These things happen, not the end of the world.

Think of it logically. God made a covenant with Adam at the beginning that should he keep His commands then he will be saved, but Adam wasn't able to do that. Therefore, God sends His Son to die on the cross to pay the ultimate price for sin, death. Thus Jesus fulfilled the covenant of works on our behalf. Now, if you think we still need to do good works in order to be saved then we are lost, as we are unable to do so as we would have to be perfect in our keeping of the Law.

If you are looking for scriptural support for what I am saying here just read the gospels. It is all in there.

Incidentally, do you hold to Arminianism?
 
Works are not required for salvation, all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them. Anything that you do is how you worship God and give thanks for the sacrafice He made in providing you with Salvation.


First you say "Works are not required for salvation,..."

But then you say "all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them."

Believing, repenting and asking forgiveness are all works, something done and not a mere mental assent of the mind.
 
First you say "Works are not required for salvation,..."

But then you say "all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them."

Believing, repenting and asking forgiveness are all works, something done and not a mere mental assent of the mind.

No, just because they are actions on our part does not make them "works." Works is keeping to the Law, literally keeping the Ten Commandments.
 
You have to take these verses in the context in which they are written. If we abide in Christ we will not sin, but we do not always abide in Christ, which is why he afforded us the gift of forgiveness, predicated on repentance. The key here is that, yes we are saved by faith through Jesus Christ which means that sin no longer has any hold over us, but this does not mean we are incapable of sin.


It's clearly established we must be saved by God's grace. But how do we access that grace? Anybody can become a part of that grace, but how do we access that? God's grace has appeared to all men, and let's see what we must do in order to gain access to it.


First of all, how has God's grace appeared to all men? I recently talked to a teacher recently of a denomination. He was a false teacher. And he said that we are saved by grace only. And I said “Now, if we're saved by grace only, then that would mean that everybody saved because Titus 2:11 says that ‘the grace of God has appeared to all men.’” I said, “Is that what you believe? Everybody's going to be saved? The Bible clearly teaches that not everyone's going to be saved, Matthew 7:13-14.” And so obviously when it says that God's grace has appeared to all men, that doesn't mean that everybody's going to be saved. So how has God's grace appeared? Well, first, God's grace has appeared to us in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In the book of Romans chapter 3, the Bible says, “being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:24. How are we justified? Freely by His grace.

But where? Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. You see, the grace is found in the redemption of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Hebrews writer writes in Hebrews 2:9, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.” It is the grace of God that allowed Jesus Christ to die to on the cross- that sent him to that cruel cross. John 3:16, the Bible says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” In 1 John 2:2, John is talking about the great sacrifice of Jesus Christ and how He is our propitiation. And the Bible says in 1 John 2:2, “That He Himself,” Christ, “is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.” And so we see God's grace in His love, we see God's grace in the sacrifice, God's grace has appeared to all men through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
Another way that God's grace has appeared to us and to all men is by giving us his word. Because it's only through the Bible, it's only through his word we can even know anything about the grace of God. In John 17:17, Jesus said that all of His followers are to be sanctified or set apart by truth, and He goes on to tell us what truth is. God's word is truth. In John 8:32 the Bible says, “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” We can only be set free from obeying the truth and obeying God's word, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. And so God's grace is seen by giving us and preserving his word so that we can know about grace, so that we can know what we have to do in order to go to heaven. In Acts chapter 20, Paul is in Ephesus, and he was about to leave. And in verse 32 the Bible says, “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.” The what? The word of His grace. It's the word of God that's going to build us up. It's the word of God that we learn how to be sanctified and how we are to be saved. And thank God for giving that to us, and preserving it so that we can study, so that we can read, apply it to our own lives, and also go out and teach others.
 
It's clearly established we must be saved by God's grace. But how do we access that grace? Anybody can become a part of that grace, but how do we access that? God's grace has appeared to all men, and let's see what we must do in order to gain access to it.


First of all, how has God's grace appeared to all men? I recently talked to a teacher recently of a denomination. He was a false teacher. And he said that we are saved by grace only. And I said “Now, if we're saved by grace only, then that would mean that everybody saved because Titus 2:11 says that ‘the grace of God has appeared to all men.’†I said, “Is that what you believe? Everybody's going to be saved? The Bible clearly teaches that not everyone's going to be saved, Matthew 7:13-14.†And so obviously when it says that God's grace has appeared to all men, that doesn't mean that everybody's going to be saved. So how has God's grace appeared? Well, first, God's grace has appeared to us in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. In the book of Romans chapter 3, the Bible says, “being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.†Romans 3:24. How are we justified? Freely by His grace.

But where? Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. You see, the grace is found in the redemption of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The Hebrews writer writes in Hebrews 2:9, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.†It is the grace of God that allowed Jesus Christ to die to on the cross- that sent him to that cruel cross. John 3:16, the Bible says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.†In 1 John 2:2, John is talking about the great sacrifice of Jesus Christ and how He is our propitiation. And the Bible says in 1 John 2:2, “That He Himself,†Christ, “is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.†And so we see God's grace in His love, we see God's grace in the sacrifice, God's grace has appeared to all men through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
Another way that God's grace has appeared to us and to all men is by giving us his word. Because it's only through the Bible, it's only through his word we can even know anything about the grace of God. In John 17:17, Jesus said that all of His followers are to be sanctified or set apart by truth, and He goes on to tell us what truth is. God's word is truth. In John 8:32 the Bible says, “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.†We can only be set free from obeying the truth and obeying God's word, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. And so God's grace is seen by giving us and preserving his word so that we can know about grace, so that we can know what we have to do in order to go to heaven. In Acts chapter 20, Paul is in Ephesus, and he was about to leave. And in verse 32 the Bible says, “So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.†The what? The word of His grace. It's the word of God that's going to build us up. It's the word of God that we learn how to be sanctified and how we are to be saved. And thank God for giving that to us, and preserving it so that we can study, so that we can read, apply it to our own lives, and also go out and teach others.

I hold to the Calvinistic view that there is an Elect that God chose before time began, and those are the ones who, having been enlightened by the Holy Spirit come to Jesus Christ, repent and ask forgiveness of their sins and are, therefore, imputed salvation. Then, as a for of worship, we do good works in order to say thanks to God for His tremendous gift, which involves spreading His message so that He might further His kingdom.
 
I hold to the Calvinistic view that there is an Elect that God chose before time began, and those are the ones who, having been enlightened by the Holy Spirit come to Jesus Christ, repent and ask forgiveness of their sins and are, therefore, imputed salvation. Then, as a for of worship, we do good works in order to say thanks to God for His tremendous gift, which involves spreading His message so that He might further His kingdom.

You would rather hold to a view of a man made doctrine such as Calvin? Let's see Calvin vs Bible?
 
You would rather hold to a view of a man made doctrine such as Calvin? Let's see Calvin vs Bible?

Ah, but you are assuming that the views of Calvin are not in support of the bible. Of course this is the subject of a huge debate that has been raging for centuries.

Let me put it this way, my understanding of what the bible teaches is at least mostly in line with Calvinism.

Example: TULIP.
 
You would rather hold to a view of a man made doctrine such as Calvin? Let's see Calvin vs Bible?

Calvin's view comes from the bible, but it's not just his view. Frankly he should not even be taking the credit for it & even John Calvin would agree. LOL
 
Ah, but you are assuming that the views of Calvin are not in support of the bible. Of course this is the subject of a huge debate that has been raging for centuries.

Let me put it this way, my understanding of what the bible teaches is at least mostly in line with Calvinism.

Example: TULIP.


TULIP-noticeable by the U: Unconditional election. It teaches God has pre-chosen unconditionally certain individuals to be saved. If you are chose to go to heaven and want to to to hell you have no choice. God has either chosen you to heaven or hell.
 
Calvin's view comes from the bible, but it's not just his view. Frankly he should not even be taking the credit for it & even John Calvin would agree. LOL


Hi Danus,

Where is Calvin mentioned in the Bible? Like I stated I am new to the faith and the forums but if you can show me where he is mentioned I would like to see it...
 
I was pointing out the contradictions in your statements where you first said works are not required to be saved but you then listed works that are required to be saved.

And I pointed out that repenting of sin and asking forgiveness is not considered "works." If we were still under the covenant of works then we would be required to keep all of the Commandments.
 
Calvin's view comes from the bible, but it's not just his view. Frankly he should not even be taking the credit for it & even John Calvin would agree. LOL

This is contradictory to the bible regarding choice-the bible teaches us that all accountable individuals have a choice. In Joshua 24:15 the principle here is that we have a choice.
 
I hold to the Calvinistic view that there is an Elect that God chose before time began, and those are the ones who, having been enlightened by the Holy Spirit come to Jesus Christ, repent and ask forgiveness of their sins and are, therefore, imputed salvation. Then, as a for of worship, we do good works in order to say thanks to God for His tremendous gift, which involves spreading His message so that He might further His kingdom.

Then how do you get by this scripture?:

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved
, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 
Obey God or never enter Heaven!

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!â€


Sinning is not obeying God.

One who is begotten by God will not sin. One has to be begotten to enter the kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.â€


It's the kingdom "of" heaven, not "in" heaven.
 
Then how do you get by this scripture?:

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I tend to walk by with a reasonable gait.

Anyway, you have to take the verse in context. The chapter in which this verse resides is talking about praying for those in leadership, specifically heads of state.

Of course God wants all to be saved, and yet not all will be. That is just the way of things.
 
And I pointed out that repenting of sin and asking forgiveness is not considered "works." If we were still under the covenant of works then we would be required to keep all of the Commandments.

If they are not works what are they?
 
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