Once Saved, Always Saved?

[olympia]

I think that the reason that this OSAS term is so confusing is that we don't understand salvation in its fulness.

All man kind, both Jew and Gentile were saved from sin. John the Baptist said of Jesus,

John 1:29, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

I John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

I John 4:14, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

John 4:42, "...for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."
I Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all."

I Timothy 4:10, "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men..."

Being saved from sin is not our entrance to the kingdom of heaven, it is believing that the world was saved from sin that is.

Most churches teach that Christ is a personal savior, but this is a contradiction to the truth and came to the church in the 1500's by Calvin.

We are saved from sin, but unless we believe unto righteousness then we will be refused the kingdom.

Romans 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

So yes, once saved from sin always saved from sin, but now it is the time to believe so that we can inherit everlasting life.

 

[watchman F]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect.

No one ever said that, so take your straw man and go home

Hi watchman

You need to work on your communication skills. Your replies are not productive.

Neither are your unscriptural false opinions.

 

[watchman F]

So yes, once saved from sin always saved from sin, but now it is the time to believe so that we can inherit everlasting life.

Amen great post. most refuse to believe that they have been saved from their sin.

 

[Mysteryman]

I think that the reason that this OSAS term is so confusing is that we don't understand salvation in its fulness.

All man kind, both Jew and Gentile were saved from sin. John the Baptist said of Jesus,

John 1:29, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

I John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

I John 4:14, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

John 4:42, "...for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."
I Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all."

I Timothy 4:10, "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men..."

Being saved from sin is not our entrance to the kingdom of heaven, it is believing that the world was saved from sin that is.

Most churches teach that Christ is a personal savior, but this is a contradiction to the truth and came to the church in the 1500's by Calvin.

We are saved from sin, but unless we believe unto righteousness then we will be refused the kingdom.

Romans 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

So yes, once saved from sin always saved from sin, but now it is the time to believe so that we can inherit everlasting life.

So you believe that you have to "do" something before you can inherit life everlasting ? Why ?

So you believe that you are saved by 'your' faith ?

Have you ever considered, that you are saved, and that you will confess with you mouth because you are already saved ?

 

[olympia]

quote: mysteryman

1)So you believe that you have to "do" something before you can inherit life everlasting ? Why ?

2)So you believe that you are saved by 'your' faith ?

3)Have you ever considered, that you are saved, and that you will confess with you mouth because you are already saved ?

1)No, I only believe in what Christ has done. This is my faith: Acts 24:16, "And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men." I remind myself always that I am free of sin.

2) Yes. My righteousness is of God, by faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21, "But NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe..."

3)I am not clear what your question is, sorry.

 

[Mysteryman]

quote: mysteryman

1)So you believe that you have to "do" something before you can inherit life everlasting ? Why ?

2)So you believe that you are saved by 'your' faith ?

3)Have you ever considered, that you are saved, and that you will confess with you mouth because you are already saved ?

1)No, I only believe in what Christ has done. This is my faith: Acts 24:16, "And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men." I remind myself always that I am free of sin.

2) Yes. My righteousness is of God, by faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21, "But NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe..."

3)I am not clear what your question is, sorry.

Hi olympia

Let me see if I can give you an example. For instance Romans 10:9 states - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart, that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"

Do you believe you "need" to confess what this verse says, "before" you can get saved ?

Or, do you believe, that you do what this verse says, because you are already saved ?

The reason I believe that it is the latter one, that you are already saved, is why you confess what this verse is saying. It is because you can not call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. And you can not believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, unless God has revealed it unto your heart.

The chosen of God hear his voice, and we are called out because we hear his voice. If it was the first example, then it would be blind faith. Romans 10:9 is not dealing with blind faith. It is dealing with the faith of Jesus Christ, which is Christ in you.

 

[francisdesales]

If you read the verse in context, you'll see Jesus is talking about Israel.

It's speaking of the faithless Jews.

Were the Jews the Children of the Kingdom of God or not? The citation clearly tells us that some of God's CHILDREN will not make it into the Kingdom of Heaven, cast out. They were IN the Kingdom, then they were CAST OUT of the Kingdom. And others will take their place.

Doesn't it mean they were in, if they were subsequently cast out???

Kind of reminds you of those Jews cut off from the olive tree and others grafted in, huh?!!

God be praised for His Sacred Scriptures.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect. That does nothing but diminish the work of the cross, and deny the power of the Lord to keep those who have been given Him by the Father. It puts the power of salvation on man's ability to keep himself.

Ding-ding, round 7...

Let's get ready to RUMMMMBBBLLLLEEEE! :boxing

We don't need to be perfect, my friend. That is grace at work. We are no longer under the Law, which requires perfection. Grace, a Loving Father, does not require perfection from His children. However, the children can choose to disown the Father and return to a life of sin. This does NOTHING to diminish the power of the Cross, since the Cross is a gift that must be freely accepted - otherwise, EVERY MAN IS SAVED and NO ONE is in hell!

Man is saved by God, not man's own abilities. But man must accept the freely given gift. Accepting a gift earns nothing, but without this acceptance, a man cannot be saved. God saves no one without them.

Regards

 

[watchman F]

Have you ever considered, that you are saved, and that you will confess with you mouth because you are already saved ?

Only a calvinist would think such a thing

 

[glorydaz]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect.

No one ever said that, so take your straw man and go home

Now that's certainly a Christian response if I ever saw one. NOT.

Let's see some fruit, brother. It would be a welcome change.

 

[archangel_300]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect. That does nothing but diminish the work of the cross, and deny the power of the Lord to keep those who have been given Him by the Father. It puts the power of salvation on man's ability to keep himself.

Ding-ding, round 7...

Let's get ready to RUMMMMBBBLLLLEEEE! :boxing

LOL, I feel like I've joined a pro wrestling match than a Christian Forum.

 

[watchman F]

To all OSAS defenders.....

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure until the end to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

 

[archangel_300]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect.

No one ever said that, so take your straw man and go home

LOL... where am I? What am I doing here? :rolling

 

[archangel_300]

To all OSAS defenders.....

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure until the end to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

If the running the race and making it to the finish line were dependent upon me alone I wouldn't be able to make it. For this I'm glad that Christ is in me to keep me in the faith and to help me make it through until the very end. To God be ALL the glory.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[watchman F]

[quote="watchman F":2iecjp33]To all OSAS defenders.....

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure until the end to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

If the running the race and making it to the finish line were dependent upon me alone I wouldn't be able to make it. For this I'm glad that Christ is in me to keep me in the faith and to help me make it through until the very end. To God be ALL the glory.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.[/quote:2iecjp33]What you have said here is 100% correct, but where is the verse that says we just need to start the race to receive eternal life?

 

[glorydaz]

I think that the reason that this OSAS term is so confusing is that we don't understand salvation in its fulness.

All man kind, both Jew and Gentile were saved from sin. John the Baptist said of Jesus,

John 1:29, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

I John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

I John 4:14, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

John 4:42, "...for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."
I Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all."

I Timothy 4:10, "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men..."

Being saved from sin is not our entrance to the kingdom of heaven, it is believing that the world was saved from sin that is.

Most churches teach that Christ is a personal savior, but this is a contradiction to the truth and came to the church in the 1500's by Calvin.

We are saved from sin, but unless we believe unto righteousness then we will be refused the kingdom.

Romans 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

So yes, once saved from sin always saved from sin, but now it is the time to believe so that we can inherit everlasting life.

I pretty much agree...sins have been forgiven, but we must be raised with Christ by being born again.
Believing is more than knowing Jesus died for the sins of the world, it's knowing and believing the actual person the Word tells us about....that He is the Son of God. Even the devils believe. True belief implies trust and receiving Him as our Lord and Savior.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Those who have been born again are saved from the second death.
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.

Eternal security, though, is referring to those who have been born again - not just those who profess to know Christ. Personally, I prefer the term perseverance of the saints. We have Jesus praying for us, the Holy Spirit guiding us, and the promises that come to the children of God.

 

[olympia]

Hi mysteryman
quote: mysteryman

Hi olympia

Let me see if I can give you an example. For instance Romans 10:9 states - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart, that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"

Do you believe you "need" to confess what this verse says, "before" you can get saved ?

Or, do you believe, that you do what this verse says, because you are already saved ?

The reason I believe that it is the latter one, that you are already saved, is why you confess what this verse is saying. It is because you can not call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. And you can not believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, unless God has revealed it unto your heart.

The chosen of God hear his voice, and we are called out because we hear his voice. If it was the first example, then it would be blind faith. Romans 10:9 is not dealing with blind faith. It is dealing with the faith of Jesus Christ, which is Christ in you.

Jesus died for the sin of the world 2000 years ago. The world was forgiven of sins in the flesh whether we believe it or not, it was a done deal.

Anyone who hears his voice; the voice of those preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ has a choice to believe or not believe.

Romans 10:14, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things.Confession has nothin to do with being forgiven of sin, that has been accomplished. Confession has to do with whether we believe it or not.

When you believe righteousness is imputed to you and you are not ashamed to say so. How do you tell the difference between a believer and a non-believer? The believer believes with his heart that he is righteous and the non-believer confesses he is a sinner. It is as simple as that.

 

[watchman F]

How do you tell the difference between a believer and a non-believer? The believer believes with his heart that he is righteous and the non-believer confesses he is a sinner. It is as simple as that.

I love that, that is great I will have to use that. Do you know how many so called believers insist they are still sinners?

 

[glorydaz]

If you read the verse in context, you'll see Jesus is talking about Israel.

It's speaking of the faithless Jews.

Were the Jews the Children of the Kingdom of God or not? The citation clearly tells us that some of God's CHILDREN will not make it into the Kingdom of Heaven, cast out. They were IN the Kingdom, then they were CAST OUT of the Kingdom. And others will take their place.

Doesn't it mean they were in, if they were subsequently cast out???

Kind of reminds you of those Jews cut off from the olive tree and others grafted in, huh?!!

God be praised for His Sacred Scriptures.

Regards

It certainly does, and they were cut off because of unbelief.
They were the children of Israel...the children of God are those who enter in by faith.

The Jews were not the children of the Kingdom of God.
They were the children of (the kingdom of) Israel.

Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

They were to be a kingdom of priests, but they failed...

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And why did they fail? They set out to establish their own righteousness through the law.

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[archangel_300]

What you have said here is 100% correct, but where is the verse that says we just need to start the race to receive eternal life?

Faith is a gift from God, it's not anything that we can create.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.