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Once Saved, Always Saved?

whitney said:
IPeople who believe in OSAS tend to believe it is about a sin here and there, but it's not, it's about a complete falling away and yes, people can fall away, they can reject the work Jesus did. I personally think it would be hard to do this, but I think people do because if it were impossible, God would not have put it in His Word.
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Well, whitney, we agree on this one!
 
Sam21 said:
We are certainly kept by the power of God,however we have something to contribute to the relationship which is vital to our staying saved and that is our determination to keep trusting in Jesus Christ...we contribute that part of the relationship. God will not save anyone against his will and christians are quite capable of rejecting Christ.
It seems pretty apparent that anyone who is truly saved and becomes truly lost that they cannot be saved the second time.
It is human nature to want an "easy out", once saved we can never be lost no matter what we do, we are picked by God and it does not matter what we do we will be saved,pre-trib rapture,ect. The truth is folks, we have to bite the bullet and walk the line with Jesus Christ if we want to make it...as the old song says, THERE IS NO EASY ROAD.
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Sorry but we don't have anything to contribute to our getting saved. If you are truely in Christ why would you reject him and if you reject him you must have not been truely into him. There were followers that went after Jesus because of all the things that were happening but that did not make them saved. We have preatchors today that make you think that they are saved but in truth thay are not. Like the pharisees during Jesus's time. These were suppose to be men of God but they were not. They were more worried about brakeing the laws than keeping them.
 
Drew said:
I agree with you but only in a qualified sense. I hope to explain what I mean later, but let me first ask you some specific questions that two others poster simply refuses to address, almost certainly because to answer these questions would be to undermine their position on the nature of salvation. So here we go:

From Romans 2:

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

1. What is it, precisely that Paul says God will give in verse 7?

2. And on what basis, precisely does Paul say this "something" will be given?

I look forward to your answers to these specific two questions.
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Paul was talking about the saved and unsaved. To the saved God will give you eternial life and to the unsaved eternial sorrow.
 
Cornelius said:
100% true. But He never says you cannot leave His hand. You can get out any time you want.
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Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

These verse do not say we can jump out of His hand. They say any man and no man.
 
reba said:
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

These verse do not say we can jump out of His hand. They say any man and no man.
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I agree. No man can pluck us from His hand. And yet the Bible is full of conditions that apply to us personally that has nothing to do with "men" other than ourselves. we can leave. We can be found to be unfruitful . We can be found to be not in faith anymore. We can be reprobated.

These Christians are lost :

Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
reba said:
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

These verse do not say we can jump out of His hand. They say any man and no man.
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I disagree. It seems clear that those sheep to whom eternal life is given are specifically those sheep who follow Jesus (verse 27). I do not see how this text supports OSAS. I suspect you will argue that "no man" in verse 29 includes the "self". I doubt very much that is the intended meaning. I suggest it is clear that Jesus is referring to men other than the man who is counted as one of the sheep.
 
beardedad said:
Paul was talking about the saved and unsaved. To the saved God will give you eternial life and to the unsaved eternial sorrow.
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This is a good point.. which again proves that it is Christ working in us that is good.. it's not me and Christ.. it's Christ in me. Those who continue to reject that true light will have nothing good in them, because Christ isn't in them.

So if it's only Christ in me that is good (because there is nothing good in me, that is in my flesh), then we can't be working for salvation.. because it's Christ alone working in me that which is good..

But as mentioned, many do not believe the bible.. that there are none good but one, and that is God.. that there are none righteous... that's the bottom line in this.. because the life of Christ is justified in us.. not our old life.. and He is the way the truth and the LIFE.
 
beardedad said:
I am not a calvanist. Why would you say you have limited free will?
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because the person that doesnt want to serve god and love say for me porn, and WONT repent and KNOW its sin and was a true blue christian that had a ministry etc..

is either never a christian.

or was and walked away

one cant assume all that do that never were.

we all love sin and will hold on to it until we realise that its wrong but some know its wrong and dont want to change.

if you say that god will take the unrepented to heaven , how so?

if he does have free will.

does god ever force you to do his will?
 
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith,

Unsaved people cannot fall away from something that they were not ever part of. Only Christians can fall away from ...... .the faith.
 
Cornelius said:
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith,

Unsaved people cannot fall away from something that they were not ever part of. Only Christians can fall away from ...... .the faith.
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That is clear enough for any 'STILL' Born Again one to to see, Thanks! Excellent Documentation on once saved & then rejected Truth by ones own free choice. And the Godhead states straight out that man did & can do satan's own thing again! with a new DESIRE! Gen. 4:7. (even Eccl. 3:15 + Eccl. 1:9-10)

And not only an individual, but Their OWN VIRGIN CANDLESTICK.. as A WHOLE FOLD! Rev. 2:5 & Isa. 5:3 was Their Own Virgin Vineyard as Documented in the whole chapter's EXACT Perfect Prophecy! (see verse 7 'For the VINEYARD IS THE [HOUSE] of Israel.' (Their Fold, Church, Were Given Perfect Pure Doctrines! even find the problem in verse 3! they choose even Virgin Doctrines, (legalist) OVER & BEFORE THE CHRIST OF HIS DOCTRINES!) Find that clearly seen in John 12:42-43! And friend, this was the WHOLE CHURCH that were indeed REJECTED! Matt. 23:38.

satan call's the Godhead LIARS from the start to the end, and this is just one of the many such false doctrines of his. Gen. 3:4 was his starting place! Even most today still teach his garbage of a lieing Godhead.:screwloose Yet, never the less, it just goes on & on with satan's lies that both mankind + eternal immortal worms live on & on & on in hell, + many more of his false doctrines!!

--Elijah

 
Cornelius said:
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith,

Unsaved people cannot fall away from something that they were not ever part of. Only Christians can fall away from ...... .the faith.
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Yes they can. That just means they fell away from what they professed to believe, says nothing about they lost their salvation..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Yes they can. That just means they fell away from what they professed to believe, says nothing about they lost their salvation..
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Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Yes they can. That just means they fell away from what they professed to believe, says nothing about they lost their salvation..
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1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

So you are saying its OK to leave "the faith" and heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons and still go to heaven.
 
Cornelius said:
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

So you are saying its OK to leave "the faith" and heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons and still go to heaven.
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Wow. New guy here and just read thru 15 pages and finally someone asked the question I was looking for. Well done Cornelius. I will try to await the answer patiently.

:)
 
Cornelius said:
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

So you are saying its OK to leave "the faith" and heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons and still go to heaven.
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Also we see Hosea 4:6 & Dan. 12:4 to add to our CONDITIONAL Salvation Responsibility! Rom. 8:14
 
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