Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Drew]

Re: Romans 7

The simple way to prove this is to simply ask yourself these questions..

Is there anything good in your flesh ?

You are, again, simply not engaging the relevant arguments. My argument is what it is, and you need to engage it.

But I will answer this question even though it only poses as a response to an argument that you simply have not engaged.

As of my re-birth, I am a new creation, so, yes, there is indeed "good" in my flesh - the indwelling Holy Sprirt, transforming me.

Does your flesh serve the law of sin..?

No it does not! You are mixing up the fact that Christians sin to the state of the person in Romans 7 - who is literally enslaved to sin.

And this is not me speaking, it is Paul. Note what Paul says about the person who is a Christian:

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

This text proves beyond doubt that you are mistaken in the implication that the Christian is still serving the law of sin.

So please - explain to us all how this text allows us to say that the Christian is still subject to the law of sin and death.

I suspect I know what you will do - you will invent a "flesh" - "spirit" distinction that is nowhere found in the Bible to try to say that this text from Romans 8 is dealing with our "spirits" while our "flesh" remains mired in sin.

There are so many things wrong with such a statement, I would not where to begin.

But I will wait to see how you respond.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Romans 7

As of my re-birth, I am a new creation, so, yes, there is indeed "good" in my flesh - the indwelling Holy Sprirt, transforming me.

The SPIRIT of Christ in you is good.

As for our Adamic nature according to the flesh.. why is it still condemned, YOU and I and every last one in Adam will die won't we ? The sting of death is sin, and these bodies are dying because of that.

This is the whole bottom line isn't it.. if the flesh was getting better (and we know that the Lord said that the flesh profits nothing).. then why is it still condemned and dying ?

No it does not! You are mixing up the fact that Christians sin to the state of the person in Romans 7 - who is literally enslaved to sin.

And this is not me speaking, it is Paul. Note what Paul says about the person who is a Christian:

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.

Not sure why your bible version would cut out the most important part.. but here's what it actually says from a word for word translation..

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We know this is the case because Paul plainly says that we are to PUT OFF our old man who IS corrupt according to deceitful lusts.. and to PUT ON the Lord Jesus Christ.. who IS our righteousness, our wisdom, our sanctification.. add infinity..

 

[Drew]

Hello Eventide:

You raise some interesting questions in your last post, but I will no longer interact with you (in this thread) unless and until you answer the two questions that have been repeatedly posed to you.

 

[Eventide]

And of the course the living and powerful word of God teaches us this very thing thematically.. through a simple story..

Abraham had two sons, one according to the FLESH, and one by the promise of God after Sarah was beyond child bearing age.. ISAAC.. who is a wonderous picture of Christ in the bible.. the son of promise.. NOTE that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE after we trust in Christ Jesus.. according to Eph 1:13.

Abraham asked the Lord that Ishmael could live before Him.. but the LORD told Abraham that His covenant would be through the son of promise.. ISAAC.

Ishmael represents the FLESH

Isaac represents the SPIRIT.

See the picture ?

On a side note.. does the FLESH versus the SPIRIT seem to be an advanced Christian topic.. or would you think that this should be common knowledge to most Christians, let's say a few years after being in Christ..?

Anyone ?

 

[Eventide]

Hello Eventide:

You raise some interesting questions in your last post, but I will no longer interact with you (in this thread) unless and until you answer the two questions that have been repeatedly posed to you.

That's fine... no matter here.

 

[Eventide]

FLESH versus the SPIRIT..

Paul sort of echos his words from Romans 7 here in Galatians..

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[beardedad]

I for one believe that I am saved for all times. No one is perfect, no one can not sin sometime during the week. Jesus was the one and only perfect man. I look at salvation as a gift from God, given freely , if you only believe and ask him in. Jesus died on the cross for our sin, past and present, why should we put him back opn there every time we make a mistake or do something wrong. To me when we are born again we become part of God's familey, we are born anew in Christ. It is like when your mother gave birth to you, no matter what you do you are still her son or daughter. You cannot become not hers, it is the same way with God. Once we become his we are his forever. He gives us the gift and we take it into our heart where we cannot remove it. I know the Bible talks of the differnt ones that say that they are his but are not. To me Jesus is holding out the gift of eternial life all you have to do is to step forward and take it. Some do so willingly, some do but have to study to make sure that it is right for them, another goes up and looks at it but decies that this is not for them and leaves and still others do not even give the gift a second look because it is not going to help in the long run.

 

[whitney]

I for one believe that I am saved for all times. No one is perfect, no one can not sin sometime during the week. Jesus was the one and only perfect man. I look at salvation as a gift from God, given freely , if you only believe and ask him in. Jesus died on the cross for our sin, past and present, why should we put him back opn there every time we make a mistake or do something wrong. To me when we are born again we become part of God's familey, we are born anew in Christ. It is like when your mother gave birth to you, no matter what you do you are still her son or daughter. You cannot become not hers, it is the same way with God. Once we become his we are his forever. He gives us the gift and we take it into our heart where we cannot remove it. I know the Bible talks of the differnt ones that say that they are his but are not. To me Jesus is holding out the gift of eternial life all you have to do is to step forward and take it. Some do so willingly, some do but have to study to make sure that it is right for them, another goes up and looks at it but decies that this is not for them and leaves and still others do not even give the gift a second look because it is not going to help in the long run.

I have not read this entire thread, but this post caught my eye because it's not about sin, it's about a complete rejection of Christ and what He did for us on the Cross, then there is no more sacrifice for sins. People who believe in OSAS tend to believe it is about a sin here and there, but it's not, it's about a complete falling away and yes, people can fall away, they can reject the work Jesus did. I personally think it would be hard to do this, but I think people do because if it were impossible, God would not have put it in His Word.

 

[beardedad]

I have not read this entire thread, but this post caught my eye because it's not about sin, it's about a complete rejection of Christ and what He did for us on the Cross, then there is no more sacrifice for sins. People who believe in OSAS tend to believe it is about a sin here and there, but it's not, it's about a complete falling away and yes, people can fall away, they can reject the work Jesus did. I personally think it would be hard to do this, but I think people do because if it were impossible, God would not have put it in His Word.

But it is about sin. That people fall away is the sin in their lives, but it does not mean that God left you. It is stated that Jesus hold us in his hands and Gods hands are around his and nothing can get you out even yourself.

 

[jasoncran]

But it is about sin. That people fall away is the sin in their lives, but it does not mean that God left you. It is stated that Jesus hold us in his hands and Gods hands are around his and nothing can get you out even yourself.

are you a calvanist?

if not then that latter isnt logical for you to hold to as that means you have a limited free will. thus God makes you serve him.

 

[Pizzaguy]

are you a calvanist?

if not then that latter isnt logical for you to hold to as that means you have a limited free will. thus God makes you serve him.

Oh, I disagree. His "holding us in His hand" or His promise that "not one can remove you from my hand" was not a command or threat, but a PROMISE!

 

[Cornelius]

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith,

Unsaved people cannot fall away from something that they were not ever part of. Only Christians can fall away from .......the faith.

 

[Cornelius]

Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Cornelius]

Heb 10:38 But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Perdition :

G684
ἀπώλεια
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

 

[Cornelius]

1Co 9:27 but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Rejected:


G96
ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

 

[Cornelius]

Oh, I disagree. His "holding us in His hand" or His promise that "not one can remove you from my hand" was not a command or threat, but a PROMISE!

100% true. But He never says you cannot leave His hand. You can get out any time you want.

 

[whitney]

But it is about sin. That people fall away is the sin in their lives, but it does not mean that God left you. It is stated that Jesus hold us in his hands and Gods hands are around his and nothing can get you out even yourself.

Yet osas people believe the non-osas people are saying that if we sin or backslide then we have lost our salvation, it's not that simple, it's a complete rejection. How can you go to the Father when you don't believe He exists OR how can you go to Christ when you have rejected Him?

There will be a great falling away and some people will be apostates. It's in the Word, why do you think it's there? What do you think it means? It means falling away.

 

[Sam21]

But it is about sin. That people fall away is the sin in their lives, but it does not mean that God left you. It is stated that Jesus hold us in his hands and Gods hands are around his and nothing can get you out even yourself.

We are certainly kept by the power of God,however we have something to contribute to the relationship which is vital to our staying saved and that is our determination to keep trusting in Jesus Christ...we contribute that part of the relationship. God will not save anyone against his will and christians are quite capable of rejecting Christ.
It seems pretty apparent that anyone who is truly saved and becomes truly lost that they cannot be saved the second time.
It is human nature to want an "easy out", once saved we can never be lost no matter what we do, we are picked by God and it does not matter what we do we will be saved,pre-trib rapture,ect. The truth is folks, we have to bite the bullet and walk the line with Jesus Christ if we want to make it...as the old song says, THERE IS NO EASY ROAD.

 

[whitney]

We are certainly kept by the power of God,however we have something to contribute to the relationship which is vital to our staying saved and that is our determination to keep trusting in Jesus Christ...we contribute that part of the relationship. God will not save anyone against his will and christians are quite capable of rejecting Christ.
It seems pretty apparent that anyone who is truly saved and becomes truly lost that they cannot be saved the second time.
It is human nature to want an "easy out", once saved we can never be lost no matter what we do, we are picked by God and it does not matter what we do we will be saved,pre-trib rapture,ect. The truth is folks, we have to bite the bullet and walk the line with Jesus Christ if we want to make it...as the old song says, THERE IS NO EASY ROAD.

It's a way to alleviate all personal responsibilities. There are many "if" statements written and we don't have to fulfill our end of the bargain, definitely the easy way out.

A good book to read is "Pilgrim's Progress".

 

[Drew]

I for one believe that I am saved for all times. No one is perfect, no one can not sin sometime during the week. Jesus was the one and only perfect man. I look at salvation as a gift from God, given freely , if you only believe and ask him in.

I agree with you but only in a qualified sense. I hope to explain what I mean later, but let me first ask you some specific questions that two others poster simply refuses to address, almost certainly because to answer these questions would be to undermine their position on the nature of salvation. So here we go:

From Romans 2:

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

1. What is it, precisely that Paul says God will give in verse 7?

2. And on what basis, precisely does Paul say this "something" will be given?

I look forward to your answers to these specific two questions.