OSAS

[JLB]

But only one version of the Bible says lost, the one you choose to make your point.
If one has wandered away, is that the same as lost?

We can see from the passage that one of His sheep had wandered away and become separated from Him.


Here is the King James —


What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

We can see from the passage that one of His sheep had wandered away and become separated from Him.


Here is the King James —


What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

So he repents.
Does that mean he's lost and has lost his salvation?
I repent everyday.
How about you?
Since the other son in the prodigal son is not saved, you cannot use the two as a comparison.

 

[JLB]

John 6:58; "This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, But he who feeds on this bread will live forever".
Now I look at this verse and I see the older son eating manna and the younger one repenting and being fed by Jesus.
One is saved, one is not.
The Jews remained with God in the desert for 40 years, they were fed manna, and yet they died, always complaining for something better.
This is exactly the case of the older son.
Do you agree that he was not saved?
Or should I say "lost".

Im not following you.


“Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’
“But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
“And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:25-32



I don’t see where the older brother had taken his inheritance and left his father to live a life of sin, drinking and fornicating with prostitutes.


Why would we assume the older son, was not really his father’s son?


Please explain what you mean.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Oh, and by the way, I do not consider the KJV to be infallible and I do not consider it common english for someone as myself to understand.
You may as well be one of these people who explain everything in greek and hebrew.
Makes no sense to me, I don't speak either.
So they are talking to the wall, not me.
I feel the same about the KJV.

 

[JLB]

Does that mean he's lost and has lost his salvation?

A sinner who is separated from Christ, must repent, in order to be reconciled to Him; to be joined to Him and one spirit with Him, and thereby being joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17



JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Im following you.


“Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’
“But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
“And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:25-32



I don’t see where the older brother had taken his inheritance and left his father to live a life of sin, drinking and fornicating with prostitutes.


Why would we assume the older son, was not really his father’s son?


Please explain what you mean.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Im following you.


“Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’
“But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
“And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:25-32



I don’t see where the older brother had taken his inheritance and left his father to live a life of sin, drinking and fornicating with prostitutes.


Why would we assume the older son, was not really his father’s son?


Please explain what you mean.




JLB

Let's change this to simple english.
He would get drunk and then have sex with prostitutes.
The older son did neither.
The older son stayed with the father and did as he was told.

The younger son, when things went bad, came home and repented.
Yes, this is celebrated in heaven as the angels long to understand how we do it.

Now the older son becomes angry with jealousy, and wants nothing to do with it.
Only complain to the father.

The Apostle Paul says in Corinthians;
“you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?"
Where is God in all this?

 

[JLB]

Oh, and by the way, I do not consider the KJV to be infallible and I do not consider it common english for someone as myself to understand.
You may as well be one of these people who explain everything in greek and hebrew.
Makes no sense to me, I don't speak either.
So they are talking to the wall, not me.
I feel the same about the KJV.

Yes I mainly use the NKJV, but since you said it was the only version that used “lost”, I used the King James.

Here‘s the NASB —


4 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the [b]open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


NIV —


4 “What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the [a]open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?5 When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


The Message —


“Suppose one of you had a hundred sheep and lost one. Wouldn’t you leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the lost one until you found it? When found, you can be sure you would put it across your shoulders, rejoicing, and when you got home call in your friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Celebrate with me! I’ve found my lost sheep!’ Count on it—there’s more joy in heaven over one sinner’s rescued life than over ninety-nine good people in no need of rescue. Luke 15:4-7




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

A sinner who is separated from Christ, must repent, in order to be reconciled to Him; to be joined to Him and one spirit with Him, and thereby being joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17



JLB

So, if one is saved, are you saying in these verses they can lose their salvation?

 

[JLB]

Let's change this to simple english.
He would get drunk and then have sex with prostitutes.
The older son did neither.
The older son stayed with the father and did as he was told.

The younger son, when things went bad, came home and repented.
Yes, this is celebrated in heaven as the angels long to understand how we do it.

Now the older son becomes angry with jealousy, and wants nothing to do with it.
Only complain to the father.

The Apostle Paul says in Corinthians;
“you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?"
Where is God in all this?

God is still on His throne, moving on the hearts of people to repent, and be reconciled with Him.


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9




JLB

 

[JLB]

So, if one is saved, are you saying in these verses they can lose their salvation?

I’m saying that they themselves can become lost.


What does lost mean to you?


Jesus said He came to save the lost.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Interesting.
In verse 31;
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. "

The older son is saved even though he is angry and jealous.
Yet we are taught other wise.
How does that all fit in?

 

[GodsGrace]

So he repents.
Does that mean he's lost and has lost his salvation?
I repent everyday.
How about you?
Since the other son in the prodigal son is not saved, you cannot use the two as a comparison.

I'd say that wandering away and being lost is different.
I could wander away but not be lost.

To me wandering is the same as sinning. We might sin, but are still in communion with God and ask forgiveness.

Being lost means a person does not know where they are.
Something lost cannot be recovered at times.

So a person that wanders off is saved.
A person that is lost is not saved, but can return to God if they wish.

 

[GodsGrace]

Let's change this to simple english.
He would get drunk and then have sex with prostitutes.
The older son did neither.
The older son stayed with the father and did as he was told.

The younger son, when things went bad, came home and repented.
Yes, this is celebrated in heaven as the angels long to understand how we do it.

Now the older son becomes angry with jealousy, and wants nothing to do with it.
Only complain to the father.

The Apostle Paul says in Corinthians;
“you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?"
Where is God in all this?

Good points.
I believe the Father is trying to explain to the older son the reasons why he should not be mad at his father for accepting back the younger son.

But, OTOH, someone that loves God would also be welcoming back his younger brother.
He certainly was not acting like someone that honors God.

 

[jerry63935]

Do you believe the lost need salvation?

what kind of question is that? did you need to be saved? answer yes you did technically when we are truly saved its only one time. after that we as Christian have to repent change our mind /turn from. the thing of it is a person is either saved or they aint . there is no straddling the fence

 

[jerry63935]

I'd say that wandering away and being lost is different.
I could wander away but not be lost.

To me wandering is the same as sinning. We might sin, but are still in communion with God and ask forgiveness.

Being lost means a person does not know where they are.
Something lost cannot be recovered at times.

So a person that wanders off is saved.
A person that is lost is not saved, but can return to God if they wish.

very good point and that is exactly what it means

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

But, OTOH, someone that loves God would also be welcoming back his younger brother.
He certainly was not acting like someone that honors God.

I see this kind of situation on occasion of anger at being rewarded for negative behavior, instead of happy that they are now saved again. I think a lot of people fit the order brother's position without knowing it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wrench like me, back in 1972. I once was lost (prodigal son/sheep), but now am found, was blind, but now I see since 1997. I couldn't even count how many times I lost my way as I strayed from God and came back to Him.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The 99 sheep had no need to be found as they already belonged to their master and knew his voice, but the 100th one strayed away from its master and found itself lost and the master went searching for it calling out to that sheep to come back to the sheepfold.

The prodigal son returned back to His father after seeing how he failed his father and himself losing his inheritance within improper ways. He came back only wanting to be a servant feeling he was unworthy of his fathers love. His father never quit loving him and welcomed him with loving arms and gave him his best as he rejoiced that his son came back safe and sound. This angered the older son the way his father treated his younger brother, and I am sure he probably was jealous that his wayward brother was getting so much attention, Luke 15:10, but what he was not seeing is that he was blinded by the love his father had for both of them in whom he treated equally with all that he had.

This is the same as God who loves us and waits lovingly and patiently for us to return back to Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wrench like me, back in 1972. I once was lost (prodigal son/sheep), but now am found, was blind, but now I see since 1997. I couldn't even count how many times I lost my way as I strayed from God and came back to Him.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The 99 sheep had no need to be found as they already belonged to their master and knew his voice, but the 100th one strayed away from its master and found itself lost and the master went searching for it calling out to that sheep to come back to the sheepfold.

The prodigal son returned back to His father after seeing how he failed his father and himself losing his inheritance within improper ways. He came back only wanting to be a servant feeling he was unworthy of his fathers love. His father never quit loving him and welcomed him with loving arms and gave him his best as he rejoiced that his son came back safe and sound. This angered the older son the way his father treated his younger brother, and I am sure he probably was jealous that his wayward brother was getting so much attention, Luke 15:10, but what he was not seeing is that he was blinded by the love his father had for both of them in whom he treated equally with all that he had.

This is the same as God who loves us and waits lovingly and patiently for us to return back to Him.

Jesus tells both parables to show two different experiences:
The sheep goes wandering off and became lost.
God had to go get him or he would have most probably died.

The son goes off on his own and abandons the father.
The son realizes his mistake and goes back to the father on his own.
They father did not go searching for him.

I think it must be a little of both in every case of abandoning God.....
God calls us even if it's through remorse for having left Him, or maybe we have a guilty conscience.

OTOH,,, He waits for us to come back on our own and does not "carry us on His back" unless we allow Him to, as the lamb did.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see this kind of situation on occasion of anger at being rewarded for negative behavior, instead of happy that they are now saved again. I think a lot of people fit the order brother's position without knowing it.

I agree.
I've done this myself.
Those that come off drugs are given acalades.
What about the ones that never went on drugs?

When I got older I realized why.
The pain and will power it takes to come off that stuff.

So, yes, I agree.