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Perfect Tense for "saved" proves eternal security

FreeGrace said:
Still missing the point, I see.

If salvation can be lost, the perfect tense could not be used, since the verse didn't include any exceptions to the on-going results of being saved between time of belief and the present.
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Do you know koine Greek?
Could we stop discussing language????
This is a bible study and no one here knows koine Greek.
Seems like we're having enough problems with English.
 
FreeGrace said:
let's stop with the distractions and smoke and mirrors, ok? We're not talking about some document that was sealed with wax.

We're talking about the Holy Spirit Himself being our seal, which is a guarantee for the day of redemption.

Not the same. no comparison.

But, to your last opinion, where does the Bible teach that the promised Holy Spirit can be "rescinded" for any reason?

iow, if there are any such verses, please ensure there is a reason for it. In the verse.
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If you ask me tomorrow, I'll list MANY.
Please remember.
 
wondering said:
Do you know koine Greek?
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No, but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express many times. lol

Could we stop discussing language????
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Then all discussion would end abruptly.

This is a bible study and no one here knows koine Greek.
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Since I've provided the actual Greek word and what the lexicons say the word means, your comment is irrelevant.

Seems like we're having enough problems with English.
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Accuracy means going to the original language. Which is different in many ways from English.

I do wish that the writers of the NT knew modern English. It would have been much easier.
 
FreeGrace said:
Wow. Since that is exactly what Eph 2:8 SAYS. But at least you're admitting your opinion that Eph 2:8 is nonsense.

I guess there's really nothing else to discuss, given that frame of reference.


How come NO ONE has found any verse that says this??
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Those reading along that know me know I respect every word in the NT.
 
wondering said:
Please explain him.
I'm rather ignorant on the subject.
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That's why I said that you don't understand him. But this is not the thread for trying to fit an entire book study into this or any other thread.

But I'll boil it down for you. ch 1-3 are basically about hypocrisy, even though James never used the word.

Just consider these 2 verses:
James 2:15-16
15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? NIV

Those who do not see a clear example of hypocrisy just don't understand what it is.

Basically, James' point was for believers to live out their faith, so others can see it. Which is clearly seen in 2:18.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." NIV

I will point out that I moved the quote mark to the end of the verse. It is placed after "deeds" in most translations. But that doesn't make sense, given what the "someone" says. He SAYS "I have deeds". So to challenge that "someone" to "show me your faith without deeds" is silly. Further, that "someone" says "you have faith" in contrast to his having deeds. So the challenge to "show me your faith without deeds" makes sense for the "someone" to say.
 
FreeGrace said:
No, but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express many times. lol


Then all discussion would end abruptly.


Since I've provided the actual Greek word and what the lexicons say the word means, your comment is irrelevant.


Accuracy means going to the original language. Which is different in many ways from English.

I do wish that the writers of the NT knew modern English. It would have been much easier.
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I know a modern day theologian that teaches koine Greek and he tells me this whole thread is irrelevant.
 
FreeGrace said:
I believe that much of the NT hasn't been properly divided, as 2 Tim 2:15 says.
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It has. It's just that we don't care to accept some of it, or, we like modern day versions of doctrine better than what the original church taught, which church was closer to the time of Jesus, as you know.
 
FreeGrace said:
That's why I said that you don't understand him. But this is not the thread for trying to fit an entire book study into this or any other thread.

But I'll boil it down for you. ch 1-3 are basically about hypocrisy, even though James never used the word.

Just consider these 2 verses:
James 2:15-16
15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? NIV

Those who do not see a clear example of hypocrisy just don't understand what it is.

Basically, James' point was for believers to live out their faith, so others can see it. Which is clearly seen in 2:18.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." NIV

I will point out that I moved the quote mark to the end of the verse. It is placed after "deeds" in most translations. But that doesn't make sense, given what the "someone" says. He SAYS "I have deeds". So to challenge that "someone" to "show me your faith without deeds" is silly. Further, that "someone" says "you have faith" in contrast to his having deeds. So the challenge to "show me your faith without deeds" makes sense for the "someone" to say.
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First of all the quotation marks make sense the way you explain it. The
NASB agrees with you.

As to the rest I also agree. These are works, which some today treat as unspeakable traits.

So, if we Are to do these good works, what if we don't??

( I'm not saying works save us - they follow salvation. And if I refuse? )
 
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