What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Perfect Tense for "saved" proves eternal security

Jethro Bodine said:
Quote the verse and we'll go from there.
Use a translative, not an interpretative version please.
Click to expand...
Lexham English Bible is a literal translation. But here:

1 Corinthians 15:12-17 (NASB) Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. ​

For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.​

Follow his logic. He answers the question (How do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead) with "your faith is vain, your faith is worthless, you are still in your sins". That's the reason some of them said, there is no ressurection of the dead, they believed in vain!

It is simply impossible to be saved by believing in a christ that has not been raised. Yet some did believe that way. They believed in vain. They were NOT all saved as your position assumes.
 
wondering said:
Calvinism presents me with a God who, before time, picked some of His created humans to go to hell.
Click to expand...
This is Hyper-Calvinism or Double Predestination ... God chooses some to go to heaven and God chooses others to go to Hell before the foundation of the world. The Bible does not teach this. Just as Universalism takes the 'Arminian verses' and perverts them into something that the Bible does not say, so too does Hyper-Calvinism (Double Predestination) take the 'Calvinist verses' and pervert them into something that the Bible does not say.

wondering said:
Is this a God one could love?
I think not.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%.
I would love to chat about this further, but this is not the right topic.
John Wesley and John Calvin are actually much closer than most people give credit.
The differences are worth understanding and discussing, but not worth 'fighting' over.
 
atpollard said:
This is Hyper-Calvinism or Double Predestination ... God chooses some to go to heaven and God chooses others to go to Hell before the foundation of the world. The Bible does not teach this. Just as Universalism takes the 'Arminian verses' and perverts them into something that the Bible does not say, so too does Hyper-Calvinism (Double Predestination) take the 'Calvinist verses' and pervert them into something that the Bible does not say.


I agree 100%.
I would love to chat about this further, but this is not the right topic.
John Wesley and John Calvin are actually much closer than most people give credit.
The differences are worth understanding and discussing, but not worth 'fighting' over.
Click to expand...
I know John Wesley.
Nazarene church for 10 years.
You could PM me if you wish.
 
wondering said:
Who said we're sinless??
Have you been reading along?
Click to expand...
You do understand unbelief is a sin as well? Did Jesus take away that sin from the account of a believer?

John 16:9
Of sin, because they believe not on me

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

You do understand that 'believers' are not alone? The Spirit of Christ is in them, EVEN when "WE" sin and EVEN when that SIN is UNBELIEF.
 
FreeGrace said:
Those who misunderstand Scripture and think that the "prize" is salvation are not approved workmen, nor do they rightly divide the word of truth, per 2 Tim 2:15.
As such, I see no point in further discussion of the other verses posted.
Click to expand...
That doesn't seem very loving of you to leave me stumbling around in the dark when I've presented scripture in direct response to your request for scripture supporting what I had said.

However, I will just have to muddle through as best as I can without your help.
(Just for the record, the prize would be 'glorification' since the prize is earned at the completion of the race of faith which 'salvation' marks the beginning of and not the end of. Hence the potential applicability of the verse to the topic in the OP ... which is not OBTAINING salvation, but the possibility of LOOSING it during the sanctification process.)

God Bless,
Arthur
 
smaller said:
You do understand unbelief is a sin as well? Did Jesus take away that sin from the account of a believer?

John 16:9
Of sin, because they believe not on me

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

You do understand that 'believers' are not alone? The Spirit of Christ is in them, EVEN when "WE" sin and EVEN when that SIN is UNBELIEF.
Click to expand...
Unbelief is the unpardonable sin.
We will be forgiven every sin, but not that one.
 
atpollard said:
That doesn't seem very loving of you to leave me stumbling around in the dark when I've presented scripture in direct response to your request for scripture supporting what I had said.

However, I will just have to muddle through as best as I can without your help.
(Just for the record, the prize would be 'glorification' since the prize is earned at the completion of the race of faith which 'salvation' marks the beginning of and not the end of. Hence the potential applicability of the verse to the topic in the OP ... which is not OBTAINING salvation, but the possibility of LOOSING it during the sanctification process.)

God Bless,
Arthur
Click to expand...
You're right atpollard. Don't let posters ruffle your feathers.

Wondering
 
atpollard said:
That doesn't seem very loving of you to leave me stumbling around in the dark when I've presented scripture in direct response to your request for scripture supporting what I had said.

However, I will just have to muddle through as best as I can without your help.
(Just for the record, the prize would be 'glorification' since the prize is earned at the completion of the race of faith which 'salvation' marks the beginning of and not the end of. Hence the potential applicability of the verse to the topic in the OP ... which is not OBTAINING salvation, but the possibility of LOOSING it during the sanctification process.)

God Bless,
Arthur
Click to expand...
:thumbsup
 
atpollard said:
which is not OBTAINING salvation, but the possibility of LOOSING it during the sanctification process.)
God Bless,
Arthur
Click to expand...

Salvation was never left in our hands to achieve. God isn't that stupid.

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
smaller said:
Salvation was never left in our hands to achieve. God isn't that stupid.

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Click to expand...
Wow!
That's power!
Praise the Lord!
 
Last edited:
smaller said:
Salvation was never left in our hands to achieve. God isn't that stupid.

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Click to expand...
5 Who are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH unto salvation...

Through faith.

Wondering
 
wondering said:
Unbelief is the unpardonable sin.
We will be forgiven every sin, but not that one.
Click to expand...

You miss the point. Zero believers EVER are sinless while alive on earth. Not even for a nano-second.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Colossians 2:
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins
 
smaller said:
You miss the point. Zero believers EVER are sinless while alive on earth. Not even for a nano-second.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Colossians 2:
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins
Click to expand...
Then I cannot trust the bible since there is an obvious discrepancy that cannot be reconciled.
What a shame, I was counting on it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top