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Perfect Tense for "saved" proves eternal security

FreeGrace said:
I sure does. Now, prove that ceasing to believe (falling away) equates to ceasing to be saved.
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1 Corinthians 5:13
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[fn] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” [NIV Footnote: Deut. 13:5; 17:7; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21,24; 24:7]

Deu 13:5 NIV - 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Deu 17:7 NIV - 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.

Deu 19:19 NIV - 19 then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you.

Deu 21:21 NIV - 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Deu 22:21 NIV - 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Deu 22:24 NIV - 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Deu 24:7 NIV - 7 If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

'Falling Away' = expulsion = "God will judge those outside" [the Church] followed by a quote from Deuteronomy that references purging evil and results in DEATH!

Do we have to prove that ceasing to be saved = death or is that self-evident?
 
Falling away means something different to those that like to believe in eternal security.

They have their very own dictionary that only they understand.
 
wondering said:
Then I cannot trust the bible since there is an obvious discrepancy that cannot be reconciled.
What a shame, I was counting on it.
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If you're counting on your-SELF I'd expect you may reasonably find extreme disappointment when comparing your SELF as 'CO-savior' to THEE SAVIOR.

You do understand that there is not ONE SINGLE NAMED BELIEVER in the entire Bible showing they fell/failed, and are or will be heading for eternal hell don't you?

If there are any discrepancies to be discussed it would seem to be an entire lack of scriptural evidence for what the "I work for my salvation OR ELSE" crowd postures. What they posture doesn't exist by a single named example. No, not one.

There is nothing more sickening than watching believers constantly running back to their religious authorities to get their "salvation fix" for another week or quarter or whatever schemes their particular forms of sacerdotalizm's require.

It's pretty sad when half the believers on the planet believe they might not be saved unless they go into a setting and eat wafer from a religious officiate.

I just shake my head at such works for salvation nonsense, putting faith in a piece of meal.

I believe such will be saved regardless. And I believe it for my own heart sake.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
Allen Wynne said:
How faithful is God.
God is perfectly faithful
Perfect is the only word to describe God in any situation.
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Right.
And He's faithful even when we're not, right?
Perfect.
Take one verse and make it suit your needs.
That's not exegesis. The bible is a complete thought and is not to be ripped apart by modern day theologians who make the bible answer to their own wants and ideas and make millions of dollars while speaking lies.
 
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smaller said:
If you're counting on your-SELF I'd expect you may reasonably find extreme disappointment when comparing your SELF as 'CO-savior' to THEE SAVIOR.

You do understand that there is not ONE SINGLE NAMED BELIEVER in the entire Bible showing they fell/failed, and are or will be heading for eternal hell don't you?

If there are any discrepancies to be discussed it would seem to be an entire lack of scriptural evidence for what the "I work for my salvation OR ELSE" crowd postures. What they posture doesn't exist by a single named example. No, not one.

There is nothing more sickening than watching believers constantly running back to their religious authorities to get their "salvation fix" for another week or quarter or whatever schemes their particular forms of sacerdotalizm's require.

It's pretty sad when half the believers on the planet believe they might not be saved unless they go into a setting and eat wafer from a religious officiate.

I just shake my head at such works for salvation nonsense, putting faith in a piece of meal.

I believe such will be saved regardless. And I believe it for my own heart sake.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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Of what are you speaking???
Are you talkin' ta me?
You got the wrong person.
 
atpollard said:
This is Hyper-Calvinism or Double Predestination ... God chooses some to go to heaven and God chooses others to go to Hell before the foundation of the world. The Bible does not teach this. Just as Universalism takes the 'Arminian verses' and perverts them into something that the Bible does not say, so too does Hyper-Calvinism (Double Predestination) take the 'Calvinist verses' and pervert them into something that the Bible does not say.


I agree 100%.
I would love to chat about this further, but this is not the right topic.
John Wesley and John Calvin are actually much closer than most people give credit.
The differences are worth understanding and discussing, but not worth 'fighting' over.
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Hyper-calvinism and double predestination.
Meaningless words to the average human being.
Who is the Gospel written for, Albert Einstein or Joe Schmoe?

Universalism and the Arminium verses.
Prove to me that understanding either of them is essential to salvation.
Go ahead and try to prove it.
Make a fool of yourself.

Come on people.
Start talking to the masses of people instead of to your own choosing of who is intellectual enough to receive salvation.
You might find that all the junk you all talk is what keeps you away from God.

I don't mean to point you out atPollard.
It was simply your post that finally ticked me off.
I just thought the great intellectual genius's on this forum knew how to get us all saved instead of confusing us and making us feel too inferior to be saved.
 
Allen Wynne said:
Hyper-calvinism and double predestination.
Meaningless words to the average human being.
Who is the Gospel written for, Albert Einstein or Joe Schmoe?

Universalism and the Arminium verses.
Prove to me that understanding either of them is essential to salvation.
Go ahead and try to prove it.
Make a fool of yourself.

Come on people.
Start talking to the masses of people instead of to your own choosing of who is intellectual enough to receive salvation.
You might find that all the junk you all talk is what keeps you away from God.

I don't mean to point you out atPollard.
It was simply your post that finally ticked me off.
I just thought the great intellectual genius's on this forum knew how to get us all saved instead of confusing us and making us feel too inferior to be saved.
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Funny that atpollard ticked you off.
He's the one that's 100% right and isn't afraid to say so with all the posters here that are against what the bible clearly states.

Believe. = you will be saved.
Do not believe. = you will not be saved.
 
Allen Wynne said:
I don't mean to point you out atPollard.
It was simply your post that finally ticked me off.
I just thought the great intellectual genius's on this forum knew how to get us all saved instead of confusing us and making us feel too inferior to be saved.
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Fair enough, no offense taken.

Do the unsaved really come to the 'Apologetics & Theology' section of a board and dive into a thread on "Let's begin by understanding the Greek perfect tense." to learn to get saved?

Give me an appropriate forum and question and I'll be a good boy. This Topic started out questioning Greek verbs and loosing salvation ... the answers that you request would be a little off topic. This is my first day, I usually wait a day or two before I drag topic off topic. :mischief :biggrin2
 
Allen Wynne said:
Hyper-calvinism and double predestination.
Meaningless words to the average human being.
Who is the Gospel written for, Albert Einstein or Joe Schmoe?

Universalism and the Arminium verses.
Prove to me that understanding either of them is essential to salvation.
Go ahead and try to prove it.
Make a fool of yourself.

Come on people.
Start talking to the masses of people instead of to your own choosing of who is intellectual enough to receive salvation.
You might find that all the junk you all talk is what keeps you away from God.

I don't mean to point you out atPollard.
It was simply your post that finally ticked me off.
I just thought the great intellectual genius's on this forum knew how to get us all saved instead of confusing us and making us feel too inferior to be saved.
Click to expand...
You don't need to be a genius to be saved.
Jesus wanted us to be united but the sin nature reigns supreme - incl me.
 
atpollard said:
Fair enough, no offense taken.

Do the unsaved really come to the 'Apologetics & Theology' section of a board and dive into a thread on "Let's begin by understanding the Greek perfect tense." to learn to get saved?

Give me an appropriate forum and question and I'll be a good boy. This Topic started out questioning Greek verbs and loosing salvation ... the answers that you request would be a little off topic. This is my first day, I usually wait a day or two before I drag topic off topic. :mischief :biggrin2
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Yeah, and today's the first day of the rest of my life.
I'm the nice guy atpollard, don't forget.
 
atpollard said:
Fair enough, no offense taken.

Do the unsaved really come to the 'Apologetics & Theology' section of a board and dive into a thread on "Let's begin by understanding the Greek perfect tense." to learn to get saved?

Give me an appropriate forum and question and I'll be a good boy. This Topic started out questioning Greek verbs and loosing salvation ... the answers that you request would be a little off topic. This is my first day, I usually wait a day or two before I drag topic off topic. :mischief :biggrin2
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LOL
You belong here!
 
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