Poll re. good tattoo artist career for a Christian woman - Part 2

[jasoncran]

they are, she has two but those really reflect her thoughts while they can be used in that manner. I just see the need to be that much the like the world to get the point across.why is it at times we have to be so imitative of the world to reach the world. I understand the being a jew to a jew and the strong thing that paul mentions but well if I went to tat parlor there is often a lot of flesh shown in the mags there. sorry that is the truth and usually a sinner doing the work.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Ty; well, yes, I guess that re the parlor comment it underlines just how benefitial it can be if there is indeed a Christian-friendly atmosphere.

It kind of reinforces what the quote from mygraine says in the OP:

"The area in which I live, >16000 people, has five tattoo shops. Of the five, three are owned by women, of those three, two are owned and operated by Christians. So the thought of Christian women with tattoos is just how it is. My wife is no longer intimidated by the whole dark alley tat shop scene. When the artist is a Christian woman, it makes it more accessible for other Christian women. ..
My wife had tatts before Christ.. She states that she prefers the idea of an artist with a set of morals similar to our own. We are friends with two female tattoo artists .. For my wife it seems to come down to the money, she may get more later, as the finances become available."

Paul circumcised Timothy, not because it was compulsory, but in order to help him witness better to Jews.

I can understand Christians wanting a faith based design tattooed in order to help them witness better to other tattooed people, for example, by way of application of a similar idea.

So does your SIL say she has opportunities to talk to people that open up because of the faith based tattoos on her arms?

Blessings.

I would have to ask her,but I haven't heard mention I got this as a ministry. art is always a reflection about the person who has the artwork or does it? yes it can be used that way but more often I hear its a reflection about me.

im a jewish Christian. should I then put a large mengen david on my back.if I did that most in the church wouldn't think at a glance if they didn't know me that I was a Christian but a jew or at the most a supporter of isreal.I went through that of a sorts when I did channukah. imagine its Christmas and you see down my road. a cross with the verses about his birth and the navity scene at one house, then next to it is my house a large menorah in front that is light and me out there with kippah on and reciting the Hebrew prayers and lighting the shummah and then the candles for the day then when im done . I recite the parshah.

would you if didn't know that im a Christian think that I was?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

At best it makes them look incredibly naive.

Sorry, but you have to ask yourself what's going on inside of an otherwise ordinary person (in the non-tattooing generations) that they would submit to something as rebellious as tattooing. That's just the way it is, Farouk. You'll have to live with that for another twenty or thirty years.

@Jethro Bodine :

I find it hard to say that every homeschooling mom or military wife or gramma with tattoos that relate to kids and faith in God is by definition 'incredibly naive'.

I simply find it hard to think that while a bumper sticker that says 'God bless America' or 'God protect our families' is a fairly widespread sight, it suddenly becomes 'incredibly naive' if on a tattoo. I just don't see it, personally.

Blessings.

Well it is. And like I said, that's the best that it would be considered.

As much as some may insist is not true, tattooing means something way beyond what the tattoo says or shows. You'll have to accept that fact for another twenty or thirty years. I'm confident the day will come where there will be zero resistance to Christians getting tattoo's. That's not a good thing, but no one will know that by then.

 

[farouk]

they are, she has two but those really reflect her thoughts while they can be used in that manner. I just see the need to be that much the like the world to get the point across.why is it at times we have to be so imitative of the world to reach the world. I understand the being a jew to a jew and the strong thing that paul mentions but well if I went to tat parlor there is often a lot of flesh shown in the mags there. sorry that is the truth and usually a sinner doing the work.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Ty; well, yes, I guess that re the parlor comment it underlines just how benefitial it can be if there is indeed a Christian-friendly atmosphere.

It kind of reinforces what the quote from mygraine says in the OP:

"The area in which I live, >16000 people, has five tattoo shops. Of the five, three are owned by women, of those three, two are owned and operated by Christians. So the thought of Christian women with tattoos is just how it is. My wife is no longer intimidated by the whole dark alley tat shop scene. When the artist is a Christian woman, it makes it more accessible for other Christian women. ..
My wife had tatts before Christ.. She states that she prefers the idea of an artist with a set of morals similar to our own. We are friends with two female tattoo artists .. For my wife it seems to come down to the money, she may get more later, as the finances become available."

Paul circumcised Timothy, not because it was compulsory, but in order to help him witness better to Jews.

I can understand Christians wanting a faith based design tattooed in order to help them witness better to other tattooed people, for example, by way of application of a similar idea.

So does your SIL say she has opportunities to talk to people that open up because of the faith based tattoos on her arms?

Blessings.

I would have to ask her,but I haven't heard mention I got this as a ministry. art is always a reflection about the person who has the artwork or does it? yes it can be used that way but more often I hear its a reflection about me.

im a jewish Christian. should I then put a large mengen david on my back.if I did that most in the church wouldn't think at a glance if they didn't know me that I was a Christian but a jew or at the most a supporter of isreal.I went through that of a sorts when I did channukah. imagine its Christmas and you see down my road. a cross with the verses about his birth and the navity scene at one house, then next to it is my house a large menorah in front that is light and me out there with kippah on and reciting the Hebrew prayers and lighting the shummah and then the candles for the day then when im done . I recite the parshah.

would you if didn't know that im a Christian think that I was?

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Well, it's obviously an individual thing; but it's undoubtedly true that some Christians have a particular burden and well established desire to use a faith based tattoo in this way for the proven value of helping witness opportunities.

All sorts of examples by way of comparison can be given, some more directly comparable than others, I guess, but anyway it's a proven thing that they do lead to conversations.

I talked to a guy a while back who had 'John 3.16' on his arm.

If he had not, our conversation would probably have not occurred. And I reckon he has had many other conversations as a result. Hard to discount, IMHO.

It wouldn't suprise me anyway if your SIL has had quite a few faith related conversations as a result of her arm tattoo designs.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

At best it makes them look incredibly naive.

Sorry, but you have to ask yourself what's going on inside of an otherwise ordinary person (in the non-tattooing generations) that they would submit to something as rebellious as tattooing. That's just the way it is, Farouk. You'll have to live with that for another twenty or thirty years.

@Jethro Bodine :

I find it hard to say that every homeschooling mom or military wife or gramma with tattoos that relate to kids and faith in God is by definition 'incredibly naive'.

I simply find it hard to think that while a bumper sticker that says 'God bless America' or 'God protect our families' is a fairly widespread sight, it suddenly becomes 'incredibly naive' if on a tattoo. I just don't see it, personally.

Blessings.

Well it is. And like I said, that's the best that it would be considered.

As much as some may insist is not true, tattooing means something way beyond what the tattoo says or shows. You'll have to accept that fact for another twenty or thirty years. I'm confident the day will come where there will be zero resistance to Christians getting tattoo's. That's not a good thing, but no one will know that by then.

@Jethro Bodine :

But if a military wife gets 'God bless America' or 'God protect our heroes' or 'God protect our children' or some similar sentiment tattooed on her arm, how is this uniquely naive? as opposed to expressing it in some other medium.

I just don't get it, sorry.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

I just see the need to be that much the like the world to get the point across.why is it at times we have to be so imitative of the world to reach the world.

I can't help but to see it as rationalizing the desire to continue the practice, and not so much about reaching the lost.

I'm a hard core '70's rocker and this reminds me of rockers who couldn't accept putting down all the glitz and glamour of the 60's and 70's rock scene to become Christians so they just brought it with them into the church in the 80's and insisted it was 'worship'.

I have a friend who comes across to me as such. I don't know him outside of fb, and the fact that I know his daughter.so I refrain from saying something when he posts stuff on tats and rock(listens to a lot of secular music) which I don't mind but I gave that up. I loved some of it. I know its bad for me and at time I listen to it but its well bad for me. by music I mean Hendrix. and so forth and also metal.

if I posted Hendrix and some of his lyrics what would that do to edify the body? nothing while I am not sayin we cant listen to that but its well not going to give an impression of a godly man or woman at times. Hendrix sung about well sin, and sex. while not as blatent he was a drug addict and user.

Foxy
Foxy

You know you're a cut little heartbreaker
Foxy
You know you're a sweet little lovemaker
Foxy

I wanna take you home
I won't do you no harm, no
You've got to be all mine, all mine
Ooh, foxy lady

I see you, heh, on down on the scene
Foxy
You make me wanna get up and scream
Foxy
Ah, baby listen now
I've made up my mind
I'm tired of wasting all my precious time
You've got to be all mine, all mine
Foxy lady
Here I come

I'm gonna take you home
I won't do you no harm, no
You've got to be all mine, all mine

Here I come
I'm comin' to get ya
Foxy lady
You look so good
Yeah, foxy
Yeah, give us some
Foxy
Yeah, get it, babe
You make me feel like
Feel like sayin' foxy
Foxy
Foxy lady
Foxy lady

now then imagine this was today and the video had naked women or scantily clad women on it. would we Christians then allow our teens to listen to it? funny how we(im not any better) have this double standard with our music and entertainment. im not saying we cant watch movies or what not just that we need to be peliculiar people.i gave up tv on this premise. I don't watch sy-fy anymore or most movies. I don't and I will NOT support a gay character. I know that is a sin. I can see it now. a Christian here arguing with me that im a judging and they rant and support a gay character who is on some show they like and goes through a rough patch and is lonely man then mets a man. the Christian then is happy for that person and then goes to church teaching or agreeing that same person is also hell bound.

 

[farouk]

@jasoncran :

I can see why you avoid some - even a lot - of stuff. I'm not taking about naked ladies, though.

1) A gramma with a Bible ref. and her grandkids' dates of birth on her wrist, and 2) a naked lady, are really apples and oranges, I reckon.

Blessings.

 

[Ryan]

If someone wants their faith to stand out, why not wear some tzitzits? Numbers 15:38; Deuteronomy 22:12. It's God sanctioned and not permanent. I am only saying that as I am seriously considering it, and have thought about it for quite a while now. Tattoo's are part of the world, tzitzits are part of God's world. Romans 12:2

Sorry Farouk, my opinion, and most importantly God's opinion hasn't changed either.

 

[farouk]

If someone wants their faith to stand out, why not wear some tzitzits? Numbers 15:38; Deuteronomy 22:12. It's God sanctioned and not permanent. I am only saying that as I am seriously considering it, and have thought about it for quite a while now. Tattoo's are part of the world, tzitzits are part of God's world. Romans 12:2

Sorry Farouk, my opinion, and most importantly God's opinion hasn't changed either.

Ryan:

Okay, but how do you know that God won't bless a Bible verse, for example, on a wrist, to someone?

Or stated differently, does God bless the display of His Word only in ways that you (or someone else) as a person approves of?

Would you for example argue that the New Testament believer is still under the law?

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

@jasoncran :

I can see why you avoid some - even a lot - of stuff. I'm not taking about naked ladies, though.

A gramma with a Bible ref. and her grandkids' dates of birth on her wrist, and a naked lady, are really apples and oranges, I reckon.

Blessings.

farouk, do you have tats?

I have seen "Christians" have other tats that aren't just scriptures.they are images. some of them not offensive.most tats don't bother me as I was in the world. what most Christians would find offensive I wouldn't as I was desensitized to but I respect the forum and the church views and so I don't post images of such or when I get too far I remind myself that I cant post that. it often happens when I talk about gay rights and the history of that sin.some Christians may have images of a devil on them..or a place or thing that looks really bothersome to a Christian that isn't used to it. it could be the simple things that aren't really bad. ie a simple angel with a wing on him or her and so forth. I don't feel like going to look up images of tats to make a point.
@Ryan . the tzizits thing. well that is ok but I will address that here. while I know that you are a believer. as a jewish believer. the world would associate the frontlets not with Christ but jews. that is why I mentioned the menorah and also I should thrown in the mezuzah as well. if I posted the full rights of jewish burials and its link to sheol in that sheol thread the Christians wouldn't get it (here) in general. I haven't done the full deal on the kaddish. but that is a rabbit trail.the cross and its association with Christ is so easily taken for the bible and our beliefs that is why I don't place the menorah outside or have it lit outside.

 

[farouk]

@jasoncran :

Some interesting points. Re. the 'desensitized' thing that you write of, do you think that it instead can be looked at positively? and embraced for good?

For example, rather than someone harboring an assumption that a tattoo with a Bible reference must be something negative, even though it's good in content, maybe, instead, for Christians to become positively sensitized and think it can be a good thing with value in personal witness, can be regarded as a good thing?

(Two further cents'. PS: a design I got on my arm wasn't well thought out and it faded; but I admit that people can certainly do better than me!)

Blessings.

 

[Ryan]

If someone wants their faith to stand out, why not wear some tzitzits? Numbers 15:38; Deuteronomy 22:12. It's God sanctioned and not permanent. I am only saying that as I am seriously considering it, and have thought about it for quite a while now. Tattoo's are part of the world, tzitzits are part of God's world. Romans 12:2

Sorry Farouk, my opinion, and most importantly God's opinion hasn't changed either.

Ryan:

Okay, but how do you know that God won't bless a Bible verse, for example, on a wrist, to someone?

Or stated differently, does God bless the display of His Word only in ways that you (or someone else) as a person approves of?

Would you for example argue that the New Testament believer is still under the law?

Blessings.

Genesis 50:20; Habakkuk 1:5-11; Romans 8:28 are testimonies that God can use anybody, anything, whether good or bad to accomplish his will. Can tattoo's be used, absolutely without a doubt in my mind can good come out of what God has told us not to do. But does that mean we should?

When you can see the New Testament as not being "new" instead it being "true"...well that's a convo for a different time.

 

[jasoncran]

ok. dude I can talk about sin and get too deep into that all the while saying its wrong.that is what I mean.

remember my star of david analogy. ok let me tell a story about when I tell people I do channukah. the first reaction is" are you a jew? what is wrong with Christmas and so forth" while I can easily correct them on that and tell them why I do it. but to the lost who don't know me or don't know anything about jesus , they may be jewish and wont come to me or if they do they assume I am one of them. or if they are lost and don't know about Christ and they wont come to me cause they think im a jew. that is my point.

with ryan I could easily go into the feasts and go into that depth and so forth but I am not going to reach the lost that way. can I? yes. but we should point them in the quickest way to the cross. messianic judiasm can do that but its not as well cause of the gentile nature of the church going to be the quickest way and most visible way. a messianic temple looks more jewish to me then a Christian church. does god use them? yes. but the image of the cross is immediate and it tells the lost hey I know Christ whether the beholder of it is a Christian or not.

 

[Ryan]

@Ryan . the tzizits thing. well that is ok but I will address that here. while I know that you are a believer. as a jewish believer. the world would associate the frontlets not with Christ but jews.

All the more reason to. Christ wore them, if he was our example, why shouldn't I? Giving me lot's to ponder and think about.

 

[farouk]

ok. dude I can talk about sin and get too deep into that all the while saying its wrong.that is what I mean.

remember my star of david analogy. ok let me tell a story about when I tell people I do channukah. the first reaction is" are you a jew? what is wrong with Christmas and so forth" while I can easily correct them on that and tell them why I do it. but to the lost who don't know me or don't know anything about jesus , they may be jewish and wont come to me or if they do they assume I am one of them. or if they are lost and don't know about Christ and they wont come to me cause they think im a jew. that is my point.

with ryan I could easily go into the feasts and go into that depth and so forth but I am not going to reach the lost that way. can I? yes. but we should point them in the quickest way to the cross. messianic judiasm can do that but its not as well cause of the gentile nature of the church going to be the quickest way and most visible way. a messianic temple looks more jewish to me then a Christian church. does god use them? yes. but the image of the cross is immediate and it tells the lost hey I know Christ whether the beholder of it is a Christian or not.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Yes, well, as opposed to something relating to a former dispensation or identity, a design that is directly New Testament in character can directly point to the Lord and His work at the Cross.

This would be my comment, I guess.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

@Ryan . the tzizits thing. well that is ok but I will address that here. while I know that you are a believer. as a jewish believer. the world would associate the frontlets not with Christ but jews.

All the more reason to. Christ wore them, if he was our example, why shouldn't I? Giving me lot's to ponder and think about.

there is no evidence that he did or didn't wear them. I believe that he didn't. the frontlets were used only the diaspora. not when the temple was around. he was a walking torah. remember that. he didn't have to wear that. people im sure felt his holiness.the purpose of the frontless were to do what? remind the wearer of the torah and that it pointed to what? the torah dwelling inside during the messianic era. of which we are in!

the frontlets were meant to be used for all times but that isn't what was done.now then im not saying he didn't have the tzizits.

 

[farouk]

If someone wants their faith to stand out, why not wear some tzitzits? Numbers 15:38; Deuteronomy 22:12. It's God sanctioned and not permanent. I am only saying that as I am seriously considering it, and have thought about it for quite a while now. Tattoo's are part of the world, tzitzits are part of God's world. Romans 12:2

Sorry Farouk, my opinion, and most importantly God's opinion hasn't changed either.

Ryan:

Okay, but how do you know that God won't bless a Bible verse, for example, on a wrist, to someone?

Or stated differently, does God bless the display of His Word only in ways that you (or someone else) as a person approves of?

Would you for example argue that the New Testament believer is still under the law?

Blessings.

Genesis 50:20; Habakkuk 1:5-11; Romans 8:28 are testimonies that God can use anybody, anything, whether good or bad to accomplish his will. Can tattoo's be used, absolutely without a doubt in my mind can good come out of what God has told us not to do. But does that mean we should?

When you can see the New Testament as not being "new" instead it being "true"...well that's a convo for a different time.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

I understand and basically agree with most of your first paragraph.

Not sure if I understand what you said in your second paragraph, though.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

ok. dude I can talk about sin and get too deep into that all the while saying its wrong.that is what I mean.

remember my star of david analogy. ok let me tell a story about when I tell people I do channukah. the first reaction is" are you a jew? what is wrong with Christmas and so forth" while I can easily correct them on that and tell them why I do it. but to the lost who don't know me or don't know anything about jesus , they may be jewish and wont come to me or if they do they assume I am one of them. or if they are lost and don't know about Christ and they wont come to me cause they think im a jew. that is my point.

with ryan I could easily go into the feasts and go into that depth and so forth but I am not going to reach the lost that way. can I? yes. but we should point them in the quickest way to the cross. messianic judiasm can do that but its not as well cause of the gentile nature of the church going to be the quickest way and most visible way. a messianic temple looks more jewish to me then a Christian church. does god use them? yes. but the image of the cross is immediate and it tells the lost hey I know Christ whether the beholder of it is a Christian or not.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Yes, well, as opposed to something relating to a former dispensation or identity, a design that is directly New Testament in character can directly point to the Lord and His work at the Cross.

This would be my comment, I guess.

Blessings.

while its true you could but most Christians don't. I mean when I first listened to Christian music there was few crossovers. while im not saying that switchfoot, skillet and so forth is bad for doing that but all too often the well meaning Christian often go south. remember that with ratings comes money and well sadly music that is used to glorify god shouldn't be able the dove awards but about god GETTING the glory. listen to some of that stuff and see. most of the musicians are on labels that are what? secular owned and what do they want? more sales? that is the problem im alluding too.

what will happen with the ideas of Christian tats sooner or later is likely to go south too with some.
t

 

[Ryan]

there is no evidence that he did or didn't wear them. I believe that he didn't.

http://secondexodus.mobi/tzitzit/

Rabbi Yeshua Wore the Tzitzit

We know that Rabbi Yeshua wore the tzitzit (tassels or fringes). The tzitzit were to be worn at all times, “to look upon and remember all the commandments of the Lord, to do them” Num 15:39. Rabbi Yeshua probably wore his tzitzit as part of a talit katan, the small talit worn every day under the outer clothing and often called simply the tzitzit. The tassels may hang below the shirt so they are visible to passersby. Rabbi Yeshua certainly wore the talit gadol, great prayer shawl, at Temple prayer.

The tzitzit are God’s sign among the people Israel. The Septuagint used the Greek word kraspeda for tzitzit. God commanded Moses, “Speak to the people of Israel, and bid them to make tassels [kraspeda] on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put upon the tassel [kraspeda] of each corner a cord of blue” Num 15:38. St. Matthew used the same Greek word when describing the Pharisees. “They make their phylacteries broad and their fringes [kraspeda] long” Mt 23:5.

St. Matthew tells us, “And behold, a woman who had suffered from a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him and touched the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; for she said to herself, ‘If I only touch his garment, I shall be made well’” Mt 9:20-21. St. Luke used the same word. “And a woman who had had a flow of blood for twelve years and had spent all her living upon physicians and could not be healed by any one, came up behind him, and touched the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; and immediately her flow of blood ceased” Lk 8:43-44.

So we know that the woman touched Rabbi Yeshua’s tzitzit. She knew that, “wherever he came, in villages, cities, or country, they laid the sick in the market places, and besought him that they might touch even the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; and as many as touched it were made well” Mk 6:56.

 

[farouk]

there is no evidence that he did or didn't wear them. I believe that he didn't.

http://secondexodus.mobi/tzitzit/

Rabbi Yeshua Wore the Tzitzit

We know that Rabbi Yeshua wore the tzitzit (tassels or fringes). The tzitzit were to be worn at all times, “to look upon and remember all the commandments of the Lord, to do them” Num 15:39. Rabbi Yeshua probably wore his tzitzit as part of a talit katan, the small talit worn every day under the outer clothing and often called simply the tzitzit. The tassels may hang below the shirt so they are visible to passersby. Rabbi Yeshua certainly wore the talit gadol, great prayer shawl, at Temple prayer.

The tzitzit are God’s sign among the people Israel. The Septuagint used the Greek word kraspeda for tzitzit. God commanded Moses, “Speak to the people of Israel, and bid them to make tassels [kraspeda] on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put upon the tassel [kraspeda] of each corner a cord of blue” Num 15:38. St. Matthew used the same Greek word when describing the Pharisees. “They make their phylacteries broad and their fringes [kraspeda] long” Mt 23:5.

St. Matthew tells us, “And behold, a woman who had suffered from a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him and touched the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; for she said to herself, ‘If I only touch his garment, I shall be made well’” Mt 9:20-21. St. Luke used the same word. “And a woman who had had a flow of blood for twelve years and had spent all her living upon physicians and could not be healed by any one, came up behind him, and touched the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; and immediately her flow of blood ceased” Lk 8:43-44.

So we know that the woman touched Rabbi Yeshua’s tzitzit. She knew that, “wherever he came, in villages, cities, or country, they laid the sick in the market places, and besought him that they might touch even the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; and as many as touched it were made well” Mk 6:56.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

Interesting ideas maybe but not directly to do with tattoos at all; a bit off topic, I guess.

Blessings.

 

[Ryan]

If someone wants their faith to stand out, why not wear some tzitzits? Numbers 15:38; Deuteronomy 22:12. It's God sanctioned and not permanent. I am only saying that as I am seriously considering it, and have thought about it for quite a while now. Tattoo's are part of the world, tzitzits are part of God's world. Romans 12:2

Sorry Farouk, my opinion, and most importantly God's opinion hasn't changed either.

Ryan:

Okay, but how do you know that God won't bless a Bible verse, for example, on a wrist, to someone?

Or stated differently, does God bless the display of His Word only in ways that you (or someone else) as a person approves of?

Would you for example argue that the New Testament believer is still under the law?

Blessings.

Genesis 50:20; Habakkuk 1:5-11; Romans 8:28 are testimonies that God can use anybody, anything, whether good or bad to accomplish his will. Can tattoo's be used, absolutely without a doubt in my mind can good come out of what God has told us not to do. But does that mean we should?

When you can see the New Testament as not being "new" instead it being "true"...well that's a convo for a different time.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:
Not sure if I understand what you said in your second paragraph, though.

Blessings.

Old and New pit a theological divide with those two words that are not even in the bible. The Gospel's on is merely true, not new and in agreement with all previous scriptures. Like I said, if we talk about it now, it would just take away from the purpose of why you created this thread.