Poll re. good tattoo artist career for a Christian woman - Part 2

[farouk]

what will happen with the ideas of Christian tats sooner or later is likely to go south too with some.
t

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Well, it's an individual thing of course. I guess it can be said re. Christian tattoo designs that just because one person messes up it doesn't mean that everyone else has done, or will do, that has faith based designs.

For example, do you think your SIL feels her faith based tattoos are successful designs?

Blessings.

 

[Ryan]

there is no evidence that he did or didn't wear them. I believe that he didn't.

http://secondexodus.mobi/tzitzit/

Rabbi Yeshua Wore the Tzitzit

We know that Rabbi Yeshua wore the tzitzit (tassels or fringes). The tzitzit were to be worn at all times, “to look upon and remember all the commandments of the Lord, to do them” Num 15:39. Rabbi Yeshua probably wore his tzitzit as part of a talit katan, the small talit worn every day under the outer clothing and often called simply the tzitzit. The tassels may hang below the shirt so they are visible to passersby. Rabbi Yeshua certainly wore the talit gadol, great prayer shawl, at Temple prayer.

The tzitzit are God’s sign among the people Israel. The Septuagint used the Greek word kraspeda for tzitzit. God commanded Moses, “Speak to the people of Israel, and bid them to make tassels [kraspeda] on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put upon the tassel [kraspeda] of each corner a cord of blue” Num 15:38. St. Matthew used the same Greek word when describing the Pharisees. “They make their phylacteries broad and their fringes [kraspeda] long” Mt 23:5.

St. Matthew tells us, “And behold, a woman who had suffered from a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him and touched the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; for she said to herself, ‘If I only touch his garment, I shall be made well’” Mt 9:20-21. St. Luke used the same word. “And a woman who had had a flow of blood for twelve years and had spent all her living upon physicians and could not be healed by any one, came up behind him, and touched the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; and immediately her flow of blood ceased” Lk 8:43-44.

So we know that the woman touched Rabbi Yeshua’s tzitzit. She knew that, “wherever he came, in villages, cities, or country, they laid the sick in the market places, and besought him that they might touch even the fringe [kraspedou] of his garment; and as many as touched it were made well” Mk 6:56.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

Interesting ideas maybe but not directly to do with tattoos at all; a bit off topic, I guess.

Blessings.

Just proposing different opportunities to witness that line up with scriptures, versus a questionable way that God once said not to do.

 

[farouk]

Old and New pit a theological divide with those two words that are not even in the bible. The Gospel's on is merely true, not new and in agreement with all previous scriptures. Like I said, if we talk about it now, it would just take away from the purpose of why you created this thread.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

I don't see the church in the Old Testament. (Maybe this is why I would be called a dispensationalist.)

I don't see, for example, the Leviticus passage about 'cutting ... for the dead', which also says about not trimming beards (keep one, keep the other, too) as being directly about the church.

Romans 14 as a treatise on Christian liberty (as long as it doesn't involve something heretical or immoral) would make me think that some Christians might feel free to be motivated to communicate their faith through a faith based tattoo design, for example; it doesn't specifically mention tattoos, of course.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

@ ryan I edited that , I meant the frontlets. either way. there are other things that he said didn't matter. after the cross.see that post again I was editing that while you were posting.

remember with the frontlets its the entire torah was on it. that command is in the bible too. remember that the entire torah had 613 commands.should we then not do that too. I can do that and I don't mind it but it well I now teach kids. if I took a gentile kid who doesn't know anything about the bible he wouldn't be able to grasp that. remember in Hebrew culture a boy and a girl are immersed in the torah. but a boy gets more of the torah in the rabbinal teaching methods.we cant do that today.i just had this discussion with the youth group leader today. we decided that we cant go there too deep.
should I teach the boys under 5 about why Sodom was sinning and what the sin was? yes I could with teens and go there but we have to give out milk first. the jewish culture starts since birth. its until 12 when they openly"confess" that they have understood the torah with the bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs. 12 years and a lot studying. we don't have that type of parenting here in America to do that in general. I know of one exception and even then he doesn't have his boys at the level where I could go ask about the depths of the torah.

 

[jasoncran]

what will happen with the ideas of Christian tats sooner or later is likely to go south too with some.
t

@jasoncran :

Well, it's an individual thing of course. I guess it can be said re. Christian tattoo designs that just because one person messes up it doesn't mean that everyone else has done, or will do, that has faith based designs.

For example, do you think your SIL feels her faith based tattoos are successful designs?

Blessings.

my bias to be honest is a low opinion about the ccm. it sounds a lot like the world to me. I know a pastor who wont listen to it. he isn't legalistic but he makes his case. remember not all that sing are really believers!its silly but we have'christian dating' and now we "Christian rock" and now we have "Christian tattoos' im waiting for Christian sex. oh yeah have that but I wont go there. I have heard of that stupidity.

 

[farouk]

my bias to be honest is a low opinion about the ccm. it sounds a lot like the world to me. I know a pastor who wont listen to it. he isn't legalistic but he makes his case. remember not all that sing are really believers!its silly but we have'christian dating' and now we "Christian rock" and now we have "Christian tattoos' im waiting for Christian sex. oh yeah have that but I wont go there. I have heard of that stupidity.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Yes, I know that there is a lot of unhelpful and stupid stuff out there but really it's kind of apples and oranges: personally I wouldn't discount the effectiveness of particular faith based tattoo designs simply because other ppl do unprofitable and stupid stuff.

For example, you might find that your SIL might well think her faith based tattoos are pretty effective.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

I haven't asked her but again the few times I have talked to her I haven't heard her say I use this to reach the lost.

 

[Ryan]

Old and New pit a theological divide with those two words that are not even in the bible. The Gospel's on is merely true, not new and in agreement with all previous scriptures. Like I said, if we talk about it now, it would just take away from the purpose of why you created this thread.

[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION]:

I don't see the church in the Old Testament. (Maybe this is why I would be called a dispensationalist.)

I don't see, for example, the Leviticus passage about 'cutting ... for the dead', which also says about not trimming beards (keep one, keep the other, too) as being directly about the church.

You don't see the church in the Old Testament because nobody has showed you the word "ekklesia" was already used in the Septuagint well before Christ. Which "ekklesia" and the Hebrew word "qahal" are used interchangeably. Even in the "New" Testament, in Acts 7:38 very plainly states there was an "ekklesia" or "qahal" or "church" in the wilderness at Mt. Sinai.

The same church has always been there, it's just getting past certain things that prevents one from seeing it.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4

10 For <SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all <SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>under the cloud and all <SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>passed through the sea; <SUP class=versenum>2 </SUP>and all were <SUP class=crossreference value='(D)'></SUP>baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; <SUP class=versenum>3 </SUP>and all <SUP class=crossreference value='(E)'></SUP>ate the same spiritual food; <SUP class=versenum>4 </SUP>and all <SUP class=crossreference value='(F)'></SUP>drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

 

[farouk]

I haven't asked her but again the few times I have talked to her I haven't heard her say I use this to reach the lost.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Well, okay, but then other Christians with tattooed arms, might well do so, right? and find it effective.

Like a Bible ref. or word such as 'forgiven', on a wrist.

Or even the much used Christian fish sign: <><

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Old and New pit a theological divide with those two words that are not even in the bible. The Gospel's on is merely true, not new and in agreement with all previous scriptures. Like I said, if we talk about it now, it would just take away from the purpose of why you created this thread.

@Ryan :

I don't see the church in the Old Testament. (Maybe this is why I would be called a dispensationalist.)

I don't see, for example, the Leviticus passage about 'cutting ... for the dead', which also says about not trimming beards (keep one, keep the other, too) as being directly about the church.

You don't see the church in the Old Testament because nobody has showed you the word "ekklesia" was already used in the Septuagint well before Christ. Which "ekklesia" and the Hebrew word "qahal" are used interchangeably. Even in the "New" Testament, in Acts 7:38 very plainly states there was an "ekklesia" or "qahal" or "church" in the wilderness at Mt. Sinai.

The same church has always been there, it's just getting past certain things that prevents one from seeing it.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4

10 For <SUP class=crossreference value='(A)'></SUP>I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all <SUP class=crossreference value='(B)'></SUP>under the cloud and all <SUP class=crossreference value='(C)'></SUP>passed through the sea; <SUP class=versenum>2 </SUP>and all were <SUP class=crossreference value='(D)'></SUP>baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; <SUP class=versenum>3 </SUP>and all <SUP class=crossreference value='(E)'></SUP>ate the same spiritual food; <SUP class=versenum>4 </SUP>and all <SUP class=crossreference value='(F)'></SUP>drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

@Ryan : Christ had not built His church yet, then. 'On this rock I will build my church' (Matthew 16.18). The Cross and the Resurrection had not occurred in the Old Testament. Jews and Christians are not the same.

So I think we do genuinely have dispensational differences.

And maybe it spills over into how we view something such as witness tattoos, also.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION] your missing the point.

so why shouldn't a Christian get this?

 

[jasoncran]

I haven't asked her but again the few times I have talked to her I haven't heard her say I use this to reach the lost.

@jasoncran :

Well, okay, but then other Christians with tattooed arms, might well do so, right? and find it effective.

Like a Bible ref. or word such as 'forgiven', on a wrist.

Or even the much used Christian fish sign: <><

Blessings.

why then do you think that a Christian wont get a tattoo that has nothing to do with Christ? see my pic of the star of david with the Hebrew words on it.

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION] your missing the point.

so why shouldn't a Christian get this?

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Well, I'm not sure of your point.

Some tattoo designs are widely acknowledged to be effective, anyway. Especially if directing people to verses of Scripture and leading to conversations.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION]. isreal function much a like a church. the torah was to teach the Hebrews how to please god. a set of instruction so that we could know how to love and please god.

 

[farouk]

why then do you think that a Christian wont get a tattoo that has nothing to do with Christ? see my pic of the star of david with the Hebrew words on it.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Well, I'm not sure this is exactly true.

Of course, some tattoos have unsuitable designs for Christians, I agree.

But some Christians might well get tattoo designs that aren't specifically Christian in nature. For instance I mentioned the practice of moms and grammas in getting their kids' and grandkids' initials tattooed, e.g., on their wrists. Some Christians would argue that they are a liberty to do so, as per Romans 14.

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION], that tat is from the kabbalah. while I wouldn't do that but let say I put the symbols alephbeit on my back. is that a sin to you? it simply means great house, but again I would do it for personal reasons and Christ wouldn't have much to do with that directly. I can say that it does and point to the cross but again most wouldn't get that at first.a jew would think im jewish a messianic jew might say why are you doing that? a Christian who is ignorant of Hebrew wouldn't know.either way how is that gonna glorify Christ? I can but its MORE about me as a Christian jew then something about HIM.

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION]. isreal function much a like a church. the torah was to teach the Hebrews how to please god. a set of instruction so that we could know how to love and please god.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Similarities, maybe, but not the same.

The Old Testament is about Israel and the coming Messiah.

But the church in the New Testament is about people from a Jewish and Gentile background being one body in Christ, under grace, without the trappings and ceremonial regulations in the Old Testament.

So this is how some New Testament believers, reading Romans 14 about being fully persuaded in one's own mind and esteeming or not esteeming things to be alike, may well choose to use ink as an evangelism tool.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION], that tat is from the kabbalah. while I wouldn't do that but let say I put the symbols alephbeit on my back. is that a sin to you? it simply means great house, but again I would do it for personal reasons and Christ wouldn't have much to do with that directly. I can say that it does and point to the cross but again most wouldn't get that at first.a jew would think im jewish a messianic jew might say why are you doing that? a Christian who is ignorant of Hebrew wouldn't know.either way how is that gonna glorify Christ? I can but its MORE about me as a Christian jew then something about HIM.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

This is why for example a tattoo design that had directly and discernibly more New Testament content would probably make a more effective evangelism tool. (Two cents'.)

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION]. isreal function much a like a church. the torah was to teach the Hebrews how to please god. a set of instruction so that we could know how to love and please god.

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]:

Similarities, maybe, but not the same.

The Old Testament is about Israel and the coming Messiah.

But the church in the New Testament is about people from a Jewish and Gentile background being one body in Christ, under grace, without the trappings and ceremonial regulations in the Old Testament.

So this is how some New Testament believers, reading Romans 14 about being fully persuaded in one's own mind and esteeming or not esteeming things to be alike, may well choose to use ink as an evangelism tool.

Blessings.

off topic, but when paul said the all scriptures things , it DIDNT have the nt then. but only the tanach. that book is the only way we have the idea of the sins being bad. the nt has epistles and other things that are prophetic along with the gospel. but the tanach with the torah was the means to tell the story of how sin came to be, the torah was the means that god dealt with isreal and where they went wrong and why jesus had to come(genesis 3). which btw is part of the torah.

here and I taught this to the kids

genesis 6:8

But noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD

that is the only time grace is used in that context. the jews today do mention that and I have borrowed their view of it to a degree.

 

[jasoncran]

well farouk with the evils of tats being a stronger pull then say the evils of secular music or other things in that grey area. im going to disagree. a simple shirt that can be made to your liking with the same thing is just as EFFECTIVE.i can put my own things on my shirts at a local shop here. I can put bible verses on it or what not. my body doesn't have to be a template for art. yes I could also argue about that I could put sinful things on my shirts but with shirts I can simply throw then out. its a bit harder to undue at a tattoo as even when gone they still have that shape to them and can be seen. I have a Christian friend who is very christlike and is having her tattoo removed.its faded but its still there. she has had all but one color removed. its painful as they "burn" it out.