Bible Study Predestination and Election in the Bible

[Nathan]

Just like "go to bed" is a commandment with a promise their hind ends won't be red.

 

[Nathan]

How could I be responsible if God doesn't allow me to choose Him or not?

If you notice, every scripture regarding believing is in the present tense.
1 John 5:13
John, once again, says to you WHO BELIEVE.
Not, did once believe, had believed, did believe---it's always BELIEVE, now, at the present moment.

And those are commands to those who have not believed yet.

You don't tell your kids that are already in bed to go to bed.

 

[GodsGrace]

And those are commands to those who have not believed yet.

You don't tell your kids that are already in bed to go to bed.

Yes.
1 John 5:13 is different in meaning from 1 John 5:1

 

[Nathan]

Yes.
1 John 5:13 is different in meaning from 1 John 5:1

That was affirmation from John to keep on believing.

Like you would tell your kids, stay in bed. Lol

 

[Christ_empowered]

the explanation i've read+heard is that all are commanded to believe upon Christ and live accordingly, but only The Elect are provided with what they need to heed the call of The Gospel.

God expects everybody to believe upon Christ and follow His laws, but only The Elect will be provided with the supernatural means by which to do so. Something like that...

 

[Nathan]

the explanation i've read+heard is that all are commanded to believe upon Christ and live accordingly, but only The Elect are provided with what they need to heed the call of The Gospel.

God expects everybody to believe upon Christ and follow His laws, but only The Elect will be provided with the supernatural means by which to do so. Something like that...

Yes.

 

[GodsGrace]

the explanation i've read+heard is that all are commanded to believe upon Christ and live accordingly, but only The Elect are provided with what they need to heed the call of The Gospel.

God expects everybody to believe upon Christ and follow His laws, but only The Elect will be provided with the supernatural means by which to do so. Something like that...

CE
Calm down and reread what you just wrote.
It doesn't make sense!!
But I love you anyway...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes.

WHO ARE THE ELECT??

 

[Nathan]

That is the second part of the predestination. Or first, depending on how you view it.

 

[Nathan]

WHO ARE THE ELECT??

The ones who believe.

No one can come to Christ unless God calls them.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd say though, I know you meant "safe" as saved, but that's it.

Belief is not a suggestion. It's a commandment with promise. Eternal life.

No. I meant "safe".
God keeps us safe when we are saved!!
Safe from satan
Safe from the world system
Safe from lots of things...

 

[GodsGrace]

The ones who believe.

No one can come to Christ unless God calls them.

I have to leave for a little while, but...

Are you a Calvinist in hiding??
Does God not call everyone?
For God so loved THE WORLD.
God desires that ALL MEN be saved.
And more...
Please explain...

 

[Nathan]

I have to leave for a little while, but...

Are you a Calvinist in hiding??
Does God not call everyone?
For God so loved THE WORLD.
God desires that ALL MEN be saved.
And more...
Please explain...

Lol. I do too. Date with my wife.

I'll be back on later and will start to explain myself. It will probably spill over into tomorrow to completely do it though. Lol.

No! I'm not a Calvinist by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Christ_empowered]

OK...if I remember correctly, we're all born headed for Hell. Total depravity means that, thanks to Adam+Eve, we don't have anything in us that can effectively reach up and out to God.

Many are called, few are chosen. The Good News is all around a lot of people, but only the elect will respond, and then only because of "irresistible grace." One's election is Unconditional--it has nothing to do with merit (or lack thereof...), and everything to do with God's good pleasure.

The Elect are those for whom Christ's Crucifixion applies ("Limited Atonement"). Once one of the elect hears The Good News and responds, "Perseverance of the Saints" applies, which means he will keep the faith until death.

((Who said PCUSA confirmation class was a waste of time?!?!))

 

[GodsGrace]

OK...if I remember correctly, we're all born headed for Hell. Total depravity means that, thanks to Adam+Eve, we don't have anything in us that can effectively reach up and out to God.

Many are called, few are chosen. The Good News is all around a lot of people, but only the elect will respond, and then only because of "irresistible grace." One's election is Unconditional--it has nothing to do with merit (or lack thereof...), and everything to do with God's good pleasure.

The Elect are those for whom Christ's Crucifixion applies ("Limited Atonement"). Once one of the elect hears The Good News and responds, "Perseverance of the Saints" applies, which means he will keep the faith until death.

((Who said PCUSA confirmation class was a waste of time?!?!))

CE

You're a real calvinist.
What didn't make sense in your previous post is when you said that God wants everyone to be saved, but He only allows some to have the ability to do so.

Why would God want everyone to be saved, and then not give everyone the same opportunity to become saved?

 

[Christ_empowered]

LOL. I don't consider myself a Calvinist at this point. I honestly...don't know. My own experience of "getting saved" felt an awful lot like "Irresistible Grace," but I mean...that's a sample of --1-- person, so that's nothing to base a whole outlook on.

Yeah, my initial post wasn't so great. I just remember reading some RC Sproul or somebody in which he wrote that everybody is called to believe upon Christ...but only the elect are provided with what they need, thru the atonement of Christ and the work of The Holy Spirit, to genuinely repent and be saved. Something like that...

 

[JLB]

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:6-11

• For there is no partiality with God.

Jews and Greeks [Gentiles] covers the whole human race.


The same requirements for all.



JLB

 

[Nathan]

LOL. I don't consider myself a Calvinist at this point. I honestly...don't know. My own experience of "getting saved" felt an awful lot like "Irresistible Grace," but I mean...that's a sample of --1-- person, so that's nothing to base a whole outlook on.

Yeah, my initial post wasn't so great. I just remember reading some RC Sproul or somebody in which he wrote that everybody is called to believe upon Christ...but only the elect are provided with what they need, thru the atonement of Christ and the work of The Holy Spirit, to genuinely repent and be saved. Something like that...

Mr. Sproul does have a Calvinist view. I'm not sure of his entire view, but the day or next one after hearing MacArthur I heard him teaching on it too. That's what sparked this thread. I found MacArthurs quote first so that's what I used.

 

[Nathan]

It would be too difficult to try and break things down on my phone tonight, so I'll do it in the morning.

But the thing to consider is election is equivalent to God choosing. The Bible is clear God chooses us first. He has to draw us to Him because we are spiritually dead, and our heart/mind is not toward God at all - while being an unbeliever. It's hard to understand sometimes because now we who are believers can't imagine not being drawn to God.

But the Bible is quite clear on it. The doctrine of election is essentially the doctrine of grace. If we were able to come to God on our own then we would have something to boast about.

God does desire all mankind to come to Him. But He does it in an individual basis. Think of it this way. Jesus "elected"(choose) the twelve disciples. This doesn't mean that they were/are His only disciples. They in turn, through the Spirit, preached the gospel and the chain goes on and on. So now, we are His disciples even though we were not called at the same time the first twelve were.

Anyways, election is not really hard to understand if you understand Gods purpose. There is actually more information about it, I think, than predestination. Essentially, election is Gods sovereign way of calling people to Himself so He receives all the glory.

Best way to study it is to start breaking out all the passages that mention it. Tricky part is that sometimes the same word for election is translated chosen.

 

[atpollard]

Why would I be commanded something if God has already determined my eternal state?

See? It doesn't make sense.

If He's commanding me, it's for my own good. It means I'm to obey that command IF I want eternal life. This means it's up to me and God has not predetermined the eternal state of my soul and spirit.

Jonah.
You can go to Nineveh the easy way, or the hard way, but you ARE going to Nineveh.
So was God wrong to bother to give Jonah a command to go to Nineveh and allow him a chance to obey?
Should God have just started with Jonah being snatched up by a giant bird and dropped at the gate of Nineveh?