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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Bible Study Predestination and Election in the Bible
- Thread starter Nathan
- Start date
Nathan
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- Sep 1, 2010
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I assure you reba, He does have control.
Of course you know this. Let me ask you a serious question. I would like to know your honest thoughts - its not a trickery question or anything.
It really seems like you love God.
Do you love God because He makes you, or do you love Him because you want to?
I only ask because I have worked around kids in the past. There is a distinct difference between my kids and others. I know that my kids love me because they want to, where I know the other kids respect me because they have to(if they like it or not
)I'm not expecting you to respond to it. Just a thought question.
- Jul 13, 2012
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That is why He gives us the choice to pray... Father not my will, but your be done.
When we submit ourselves to Him, to choose to give Him control, and to crucify ourselves to this world, then He can lead us and guide us into all truth.
It's the beautiful harmony of divine co-operation.
His Spirit operates in us to both desire and do His good pleasure, it us up to us to yield and flow with His Spirit, so that we can be led by the Spirit.
He leads, and allows us to choose to follow.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14-14
This divine co-operation is seen in the phrase... but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body
We must choose to live according to the Spirit, rather than living according to the sinful desires of the flesh.
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.
He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
Psalm 23:1-4
For His rod and staff to comfort me, I need to remain close to Him, within the reach of His rod and staff.
When He stops to rest, I know it's time for me to rest, because He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He knows what best.
Sometimes we have to learn this lesson the hard way.
Sometimes it's through the experience of becoming lost, through wandering off and not staying close, that we learn obedience... by the things we suffer.
And yes, He even allows this, but makes all things work together for my good...
... though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. Hebrews 5:8
JLB
I shall not want.
He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
Psalm 23:1-4
For His rod and staff to comfort me, I need to remain close to Him, within the reach of His rod and staff.
When He stops to rest, I know it's time for me to rest, because He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He knows what best.
Sometimes we have to learn this lesson the hard way.
Sometimes it's through the experience of becoming lost, through wandering off and not staying close, that we learn obedience... by the things we suffer.
And yes, He even allows this, but makes all things work together for my good...
... though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. Hebrews 5:8
JLB
Nathan
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Maybe we can look at the passages that encourage the weak believers to know they are in the faith, and not outside thinking they are in. I know that this happens a lot to new believers and believers with a propensity to depression. I hear a lot of people call in to radio shows and this is always a question that comes up, "I think I am saved, but I often have doubts".
1 John 2:1-6
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
I believe that 90% of those talk show callers come from this perspective. As the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, they start doubting their salvation. So John writes a comforting message. Letting them know that its not good to sin, but when they do they would know they have an Advocate. Letting them know that the desire to keep His commandments, and doing so, is a clear indication of God in us.
Now, why wouldn't John have just told them that they should understand that God made the decision for them so they do not have to worry?
1 John 2:24-29
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.
I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
What beginning is John speaking of? The beginning of their faith.
But look what he says about that - "Let that abide(KJV)" - menō - it is a verb, an action John tells the reader to take - to do. To remain in, to not depart from. First, why would John tell them to do something if God is doing it for them. Second, why would he use words that tell them not to depart if it were not possible - if God would not let them? John repeats this 5 times in the above versus. Seems to be a significant thing.
1 John 2:1-6
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
I believe that 90% of those talk show callers come from this perspective. As the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, they start doubting their salvation. So John writes a comforting message. Letting them know that its not good to sin, but when they do they would know they have an Advocate. Letting them know that the desire to keep His commandments, and doing so, is a clear indication of God in us.
Now, why wouldn't John have just told them that they should understand that God made the decision for them so they do not have to worry?
1 John 2:24-29
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.
I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
What beginning is John speaking of? The beginning of their faith.
But look what he says about that - "Let that abide(KJV)" - menō - it is a verb, an action John tells the reader to take - to do. To remain in, to not depart from. First, why would John tell them to do something if God is doing it for them. Second, why would he use words that tell them not to depart if it were not possible - if God would not let them? John repeats this 5 times in the above versus. Seems to be a significant thing.
Nathan
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Ok
We love (Him)- agapaō
because - hoti
He first - prōtos
loved - agapaō
us - (this is a word added by translators)
The answer is right there. What love do we show Him? agapaō love. What love does He show us? agapaō love.
Why is this significant? No one makes God love us. So, if we reciprocate that 'kind' of love to Him, then that would mean no one is making us agapaō Him. We do so from our own will, just like He does, but only because He first showed it to us. Dead things cannot love. Before He showed us love, it was impossible to love Him.
There are 4 different words used for love. This one, the highest and purest form of love, its love that cannot be forced or controlled.
atpollard
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- Nov 30, 2016
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Not starting an argument, but what does "God wills" mean? How can the God who speaks something and it springs into existence, wish/desire an event that does not come to pass? Does that not begin to step on the toes of 'omnipotent'?
Like I said, I am not attempting to convince you or start an argument. I just wondered how YOU reconcile that or what you mean by the "will" of God.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
- Dec 26, 2015
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Atpollard,
I'm leaving the house.
Logging out.
I like discussing. I don't argue - no fear.
Just quick... the will of God.
What God would will
What God would want
WOULD because He doesn't force us.
More later...
dirtfarmer
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hello JLB, dirtfarmer here
I have studied 23rd Psalm. The best reading or understanding of the 23rd Psalm is written by Phillip Keller, " A shepherds look at Psalm 23". It will change your outlook of the 23 Psalm from being about death and dying to living a life under our shepherd Jesus Christ.
I read this as some how when it comes to love agapoa love man is equal to God..
- Jul 13, 2012
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So true.
I believe a young Christ needs milk, and to be encouraged in the love of God, to know and be assured that God greatly loves them.
A child will surely stumble and fall many times, and should be encouraged to get up and keep walking out their life of faith.
The Day will come when they must be taught that to live a sinful life will have consequences, but that God does not reject them, but instead wants them to stay close to Him, and learn from Him about the power of His grace, to empower us to overcome the devil, and sin.
One of the most important things that a young believer can be taught is about defilement that comes from ungodly relationships, that young people tend to cling to.
Running around with unbelieving friends, doing the wrong thing, in the wrong place at the wrong time.
20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:20-23
A person can become defiled from those who harbor these ungodly things within their heart.
Sadly their are many adults who don't understand this.
JLB
Nathan
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Double "like"
Here is something interesting. I ran around with the wrong crowd when I was young. My wife did also.
My daughter came to faith at an early age. She is now almost 16. Believe it or not she understands this principal. We did not have to teach her. Sure, we let her know, but she does not run with the wrong crowd because she see's it for what it is. Powerful example of a young person who listens to the Spirit. Don't get me wrong......she is still a teenager......
dirtfarmer
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- Aug 10, 2016
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hello atpollard, dirtfarmer here
According to Romans 12:2 are there 3 expression of God's will or is there 3 types of God's will?
" And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
Nathan
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You,,,
I thought so, but wanted to make sure.
Well, this is interesting. I guess all I can say is I absolutely, 100%, do not believe man is equal to God in anything. I've been trying to squelch that idea on another thread going in this forum......
The passage you quoted, 1 John 4:19, strictly states that it is a love like his. The same type of love. Not a good feeling, not a brotherly love.
It also states that the only way we can show this specific type of love, is because He loved us first. He places this love in us. In fact, He makes it available to all.
John 3:16 - is agapaō love. He loved the whole world with this. So, if it was simply an automatic function of a person to love back when He loves them, then the whole world would love Him back. But it doesn't.
Why? They would not believe it. Its a choice people make. Just as the opposite is true. Its a choice we make toward God to love Him with the same love He loves us with. We give Him back that which He gives us first. The world chooses not to, because they will not receive it.
So, all I was saying that no one makes God love us. And no one makes us love Him. We do it from our own choice. We see this because of the type of love it is. agapaō is love that cannot be forced. So if God made us love him, then it could not be said that we agapaō Him.
dirtfarmer
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- Aug 10, 2016
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[QUOTE="Nathan, post: 1308676, member: 909"
hello Nathan, dirfarmer here
There are 3 types of people:
1. those that learn by experience
2. those that learn by example
3. those that never learn.
Most young people learn from their parents at a young age. There are 2 types of parents:
1. Those that are an example before their children.
2. Those that say "do as I tell you, not as I do".
When children begin to mature it is like eaglets. They learn to soar by being pushed out of the nest, but "mommy eagle" is around to swoop under them if they come to close to hitting the ground.
dirtfarmer
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