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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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[_ Old Earth _] PROOF of a world wide flood CHALLENGE!
- Thread starter John
- Start date
Barbarian
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- Jun 5, 2003
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Pretty silly, um? The mountains formed by uplift, moving sea bottom higher and higher. We can still see this happening in the Himalayas. A few centimeters a year, GPS units track the movement and uplift.
So no one who knows anything at all about geology is surprised to see oceanic rock at mountain tops.
Some challenge.
So no one who knows anything at all about geology is surprised to see oceanic rock at mountain tops.
Some challenge.
- Thread starter
- #5
The Barbarian said:
Its just like seeing the continental plates moving and assuming they all fit together which is hogwash IMHO. Wrong assumptions give way to wrong conclusions.
The mountains in the video could have very well lifted up during or even after the flood fast, just because you see them rise slow today does not mean they always were that slow.
Crying Rock
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- Oct 16, 2008
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I seriously don't know the answer to this question: Does Cretaceous strata exist worldwide? Are any of the deposits land deposits, or purely water deposits?
Rock
Rock
Barbarian
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The evidence shows that they do. Where do you think they don't?
Couldn't have happened during a worldwide flood, because the mountains are made of "flood deposits." So that's out.
Couldn't have happened afterward, because of observed folding. Rock can bend over time, but very, very slowly. If it happens to fast, the strata will shatter. And these aren't shattered. So that's out, too.
And since the Bible doesn't call for a worldwide flood, and since the evidence doesn't show that there was one, the conclusion is obvious.
There wasn't one.
Barbarian
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It exists except where erosion removed it. But it can be found all over the world. The key is the K-T barrier. There's a line containing a large amount of Iridium at that point. Above it, no large animals until large mammals began to appear. And no dinosaurs.
And yes, there are some cretaceous deposits which are marine.
- Thread starter
- #9
Nope it does not. Perhaps we need another thread on this. But for a quick note the Bible talks about the dividing of the lands shortly after the flood.
why could they mountains not have shot up during the flood when the the sediments were laid?
Or..they folded shortly after the flood waters retreated while the sediments were still soft.
The Bible does call for a world wide flood, would you like to learn?
sorry could not resist.
Caroline H
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- Jul 9, 2008
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The Barbarian said:
Have you read Genesis Chapter 7 lately?
I think John makes a good point here, that there are two worldviews at odd with each other and there is no way to resolve them.
Barbarian
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Barbarian observes:
And since the Bible doesn't call for a worldwide flood, and since the evidence doesn't show that there was one, the conclusion is obvious.
Yep. The error is in assuming that the Hebrew word "eretz" translates to "the whole world." And it doesn't. For example, "eretz Israel" means" the land of Israel."
Without scriptural support, and with all the evidence showing there couldn't be a worldwide flood, the game is pretty much over.
And since the Bible doesn't call for a worldwide flood, and since the evidence doesn't show that there was one, the conclusion is obvious.
Yep. The error is in assuming that the Hebrew word "eretz" translates to "the whole world." And it doesn't. For example, "eretz Israel" means" the land of Israel."
Without scriptural support, and with all the evidence showing there couldn't be a worldwide flood, the game is pretty much over.
Barbarian
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- Jun 5, 2003
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Why don't people just walk to safety instead of die in floods? I'd think that is obvious. The flood was a rather unique case, where the Mediterranian broke into the present Black Sea basin, and rapidly flooded a huge area. The waters seem to have advanced a mile a day, which would have been a serious problem for anyone without a boat.
Well, it wasn't the world, but the land and people in the Middle East.
So far, He hasn't done it like that again. No floods on that scale.
- Thread starter
- #14
It took Noah how many YEARS to build the ark...surely plenty of time to walk out of the way..unless the flood was global.
Are you insisting that at that time the only people in the world were huddled around that small area in the middle east? If the world was not flooded many MANY people would have escaped judgment with out even knowing they did.
We know how large a global flood would be..lol But if your view be true we have no clue how small the local flood would be. There has been many large floods recently.
To add the rainbow which was to symbolize Gods promise is pointless with a local flood.
Caroline H
Member
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Caromurp observes:
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered (ESV)
Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered (ESV)
- Thread starter
- #17
2 Pet. 3:3-8 tells us that people who scoff at the Bible are "willingly ignorant" of the Creation and the Flood. In order to understand science and the Bible, we must not be ignorant of those two great events in Earth’s history.
* Over 250 Flood legends from all parts of the world have been found. Most have similarities to the Genesis story.
* Noah’s ark was built only to float, not to sail anywhere. Many ark scholars believe that the ark was a "barge" shape, not a pointed "boat" shape. This would greatly increase the cargo capacity. Scoffers have pointed out that the largest sailing ships were less than 300 feet because of the problem of twisting and flexing the boat. These ships had giant masts, and sails to catch the wind. Noah's ark needed neither of those and therefore had far less torsion related stress.
* Even using the small 18-inch cubit (my height is 6-ft. 1-in. and I have a 21-in. cubit) the ark was large enough to hold all the required animals, people, and food with room to spare.
* The length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1 is what shipbuilders today often use. This is the best ratio for stability in stormy weather. (God thinks of everything!)
* The ark may have had a "moon-pool" in the center. The larger ships would have a hole in the center of the bottom of the boat with walls extending up into the ship. There are several reasons for this feature:
* It allowed water to go up into the hole as the ship crested waves. This would be needed to relieve strain on longer ships.
* The rising and lowering water acted as a piston to pump fresh air in and out of the ship. This would prevent the buildup of dangerous gasses from all the animals on board.
* The hole was a great place to dump garbage into the ocean without going outside.
* The ark may have had large drogue (anchor) stones suspended over the sides to keep it more stable in rough weather. Many of these stones have been found in the region where the ark landed.
* Noah lived 950 years! Many Bible scholars believe the pre-Flood people were much larger than modern man. Skeletons over 11 feet tall have been found! If Noah were taller, his cubit (elbow to fingertip) would have been much larger also. This would make the ark larger by the same ratio. See Seminar tape #2 for more info on this.
* God told Noah to bring two of each kind (seven of some), not of each species or variety. Noah had only two of the dog kind, which would include the wolves, coyotes, foxes, mutts, etc. The "kind" grouping is probably closer to our modern family division in taxonomy, and would greatly reduce the number of animals on the ark. Animals have diversified into many varieties in the last 4400 years since the Flood. This diversification is not anything similar to great claims that the evolutionists teach. (They teach, "Kelp can turn into Kent," given enough time!)
* Noah did not have to get the animals. God brought them to him (Gen. 6:20, "shall come to thee").
* Only land-dwelling, air-breathing animals had to be included on the ark (Gen. 7:15, "in which is the breath of life," 7:22). Noah did not need to bring all the thousands of insects varieties.
* Many animals sleep, hibernate, or become very inactive during bad weather.
* All animals (and people) were vegetarians before and during the Flood according to Gen. 1:20-30 with Gen. 9:3.
* The pre-Flood people were probably much smarter and more advanced than people today. The longer life spans, Adam’s direct contact with God, and the fact that they could glean the wisdom of many generations that were still alive would greatly expand their knowledge base.
* The Bible says that the highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits of water. This is half the height of the ark. The ark was safe from scraping bottom at all times.
* The large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood when "the mountains arose and the valleys sank down" (Ps. 104:5-9, Gen. 8:3-8).
* There is enough water in the oceans right now to cover the earth 8,000 feet deep if the surface of the earth were smooth.
* Many claim to have seen the ark in recent times in the area in which the Bible says it landed. There are two primary schools of thought about the actual site of the ark (see my Creation Seminar Part 3 video for more on this). Much energy and time has been expended to prove both views. Some believe the ark is on Mt. Ararat, covered by snow (CBS showed a one-hour special in 1993 about this site). The other group believes the ark is seventeen miles south of Mt. Ararat in a valley called "the valley of eight" (8 souls on the ark). The Bible says the ark landed in the "mountains" of Ararat, not necessarily on the mountain itself.
* The continents were not separated until 100-300 years after the Flood (Gen. 10:25). The people and animals had time to migrate anywhere on earth by then. See Seminar Part 6 for more information.
* The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (from 26,000-29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean-dwelling animals.
* Sedimentary rock is found all over the world. Sedimentary rock is formed in water.
* Petrified clams in the closed position (found all over the world) testify to their rapid burial while they were still alive, even on top of Mount Everest.
* Bent rock layers, fossil graveyards, and poly-strata fossils are best explained by a Flood.
* People choose to not believe in the Flood because it speaks of the judgment of God on sin (2 Pet. 3:3-8).
http://www.drdino.com/read-article.php?id=76&c=12
Food for thought.
* Over 250 Flood legends from all parts of the world have been found. Most have similarities to the Genesis story.
* Noah’s ark was built only to float, not to sail anywhere. Many ark scholars believe that the ark was a "barge" shape, not a pointed "boat" shape. This would greatly increase the cargo capacity. Scoffers have pointed out that the largest sailing ships were less than 300 feet because of the problem of twisting and flexing the boat. These ships had giant masts, and sails to catch the wind. Noah's ark needed neither of those and therefore had far less torsion related stress.
* Even using the small 18-inch cubit (my height is 6-ft. 1-in. and I have a 21-in. cubit) the ark was large enough to hold all the required animals, people, and food with room to spare.
* The length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1 is what shipbuilders today often use. This is the best ratio for stability in stormy weather. (God thinks of everything!)
* The ark may have had a "moon-pool" in the center. The larger ships would have a hole in the center of the bottom of the boat with walls extending up into the ship. There are several reasons for this feature:
* It allowed water to go up into the hole as the ship crested waves. This would be needed to relieve strain on longer ships.
* The rising and lowering water acted as a piston to pump fresh air in and out of the ship. This would prevent the buildup of dangerous gasses from all the animals on board.
* The hole was a great place to dump garbage into the ocean without going outside.
* The ark may have had large drogue (anchor) stones suspended over the sides to keep it more stable in rough weather. Many of these stones have been found in the region where the ark landed.
* Noah lived 950 years! Many Bible scholars believe the pre-Flood people were much larger than modern man. Skeletons over 11 feet tall have been found! If Noah were taller, his cubit (elbow to fingertip) would have been much larger also. This would make the ark larger by the same ratio. See Seminar tape #2 for more info on this.
* God told Noah to bring two of each kind (seven of some), not of each species or variety. Noah had only two of the dog kind, which would include the wolves, coyotes, foxes, mutts, etc. The "kind" grouping is probably closer to our modern family division in taxonomy, and would greatly reduce the number of animals on the ark. Animals have diversified into many varieties in the last 4400 years since the Flood. This diversification is not anything similar to great claims that the evolutionists teach. (They teach, "Kelp can turn into Kent," given enough time!)
* Noah did not have to get the animals. God brought them to him (Gen. 6:20, "shall come to thee").
* Only land-dwelling, air-breathing animals had to be included on the ark (Gen. 7:15, "in which is the breath of life," 7:22). Noah did not need to bring all the thousands of insects varieties.
* Many animals sleep, hibernate, or become very inactive during bad weather.
* All animals (and people) were vegetarians before and during the Flood according to Gen. 1:20-30 with Gen. 9:3.
* The pre-Flood people were probably much smarter and more advanced than people today. The longer life spans, Adam’s direct contact with God, and the fact that they could glean the wisdom of many generations that were still alive would greatly expand their knowledge base.
* The Bible says that the highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits of water. This is half the height of the ark. The ark was safe from scraping bottom at all times.
* The large mountains, as we have them today, did not exist until after the Flood when "the mountains arose and the valleys sank down" (Ps. 104:5-9, Gen. 8:3-8).
* There is enough water in the oceans right now to cover the earth 8,000 feet deep if the surface of the earth were smooth.
* Many claim to have seen the ark in recent times in the area in which the Bible says it landed. There are two primary schools of thought about the actual site of the ark (see my Creation Seminar Part 3 video for more on this). Much energy and time has been expended to prove both views. Some believe the ark is on Mt. Ararat, covered by snow (CBS showed a one-hour special in 1993 about this site). The other group believes the ark is seventeen miles south of Mt. Ararat in a valley called "the valley of eight" (8 souls on the ark). The Bible says the ark landed in the "mountains" of Ararat, not necessarily on the mountain itself.
* The continents were not separated until 100-300 years after the Flood (Gen. 10:25). The people and animals had time to migrate anywhere on earth by then. See Seminar Part 6 for more information.
* The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (from 26,000-29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean-dwelling animals.
* Sedimentary rock is found all over the world. Sedimentary rock is formed in water.
* Petrified clams in the closed position (found all over the world) testify to their rapid burial while they were still alive, even on top of Mount Everest.
* Bent rock layers, fossil graveyards, and poly-strata fossils are best explained by a Flood.
* People choose to not believe in the Flood because it speaks of the judgment of God on sin (2 Pet. 3:3-8).
http://www.drdino.com/read-article.php?id=76&c=12
Food for thought.
Caroline H
Member
- Jul 9, 2008
- 5,830
- 7
The Barbarian said:
Where in that verse does the word "Eretz" appear? And yes, heaven here is fiturative...it referrs to the sky or the atmosphere of the earth, meaning that every high mountain under the whole atmosphere was covered.
I don't want to derail this topic.
John, I found this one quite interesting...
Many people will say that it is because the mountain chain used to be flat ocean floor, but once again it is going to be a difference in oppinion.
Caroline H
Member
- Jul 9, 2008
- 5,830
- 7
I would say there's no disputing that, but I wouldn't put it past them. I think it's incredible that we have all this evidence and sometimes it just makes me smile, you know?