Revelation Chapter 20

[lowrab777]

this topic is huge and definatly requires a personal study to be able fully understand what the apointed festivals really are symbolic of. It is a fact that the Jews perverted Gods intentions for the meaning of these feasts
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
But after they belong to God not he Jews and we will be keeping at least one of them after the millennium
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. :yes

 

[n2thelight]

Are we skipping over Revelation 20:4? and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Where is this place that we reign? Not believing in Revelation is saying that Jesus was unable to predict the future, must I tell people about Jesus predicting that Peter would deny him three times.

We will reign from Jerusalem,on the old earth as you call it.......There will not be a new earth perse,it will just be rejuvinated,in other words it will be put back the way it was before God destroyed it the first time(not Noah's flood)....God is a consuming fire,when it says the earth shall burn up,it simply means all unpure things will cease to exist.....

Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

At the close of chapter 20, the fire of hell that consume Satan and all his followers, will not exist. They will never again return in any form, and in their place will be a rejuvenated earth. Will this place be on some far off planet? No, but right here on earth. It will be perfect.

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"A thief in the night" is an figure of speech that means that Christ shall come at an unexpected time. In the English it sounds like a very scary time, but lets see what it says in the original text. The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.

 

[n2thelight]

Now you changed your mind and you think he is not coming like a thief in the night? It's obvious he will 1 Thessalonians 5:2 - What are you trying to get across man? I've already known this for some time now. Is that what you were trying to ask me, if I knew or not, if I knew the signs? Is the 'thief in the night' referring to rapture or the second coming of Christ? Because the rapture and the second coming are two different events. Jesus giving us warning in scripture is completely different than Jesus himself actually coming!

You must go down a few verses

I Thessalonians 5:4 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

 

[JLB]

Now you changed your mind and you think he is not coming like a thief in the night? It's obvious he will 1 Thessalonians 5:2 - What are you trying to get across man? I've already known this for some time now. Is that what you were trying to ask me, if I knew or not, if I knew the signs? Is the 'thief in the night' referring to rapture or the second coming of Christ? Because the rapture and the second coming are two different events. Jesus giving us warning in scripture is completely different than Jesus himself actually coming!

Urk,

I haven't changed my mind. If you go back and look you will see I quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:4.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

So the idea that The Rapture is "imminent" is FALSE".

Jesus will not come as a thief in the night for the Church, but for the world.

That's the point I wanted to make.

JLB

 

[John 8:32]

Does Revelation 5:10 confirm the old earth or the new renewed earth that is not defiled with sin. So what you're saying is that we reign on the old earth a thousand years with Christ in a sin nature/fallen world? because Satan still exists on the old earth during these thousand years, right? When does Christ renew the earth for good? I guess Satan being bound up with chains is a good thing, ha.

No, let's read...

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This event occurs as Christ returns. Now since Satan can no longer deceive the nations and Christ rules and the saints rule with Him, who are they ruling over? Those who survive the Tribulation. There are people alive on the earth during the Millenium.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Read Rev 20 and Rev 21 and you see that the New Heavens and the New Earth happen after the Millenium, after the Last Great Day (the GWTJ) and after Hell Fire burns the earth and cleanses and purifies it. Now after these events comes...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This is after...

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

This world continues until when?

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

All do not come to repentance today, but they will have a chance to at the Last Great Day...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Now for those who don't...

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Now how long is this Day of the Lord Peter is speaking of? He tells us in this passage...

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The fire that burns the elements with fervent heat occurs at the end of this day (Millenium) Then as 2Pe 3:13 says, comes the new heavens and the new earth as is stated in Rev 21. Paul referred to this...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All will be made alive, but not all at once. There is more than one resurrection, there are three as we see in the next verse...

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

How long does He reign?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The earth will not be an instant utopia, Ezek 38 attests to this.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Finally, after the Last Great Day (the GWTJ) and after Hell Fire burns the earth adn the Father brings New Jerusalem to the earth, there will be no more death. All the oxygen breathing life on earth will either have been made immortal or burned up...

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

At this time the Father Himself will come to the earth and make His home with His family...

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[lowrab777]

Rev 10:7 When the time approaches for the seventh angel to blow his trumpet, God's secret plan will be fulfilled, as he had announced to his servants, the prophets."
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[lowrab777]

Rev 10:7 When the time approaches for the seventh angel to blow his trumpet, God's secret plan will be fulfilled, as he had announced to his servants, the prophets."
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I believe these are the descriptions of the last feast of trumpets which the early new testament church still practiced according to the appointed times given to them by God in the O/T the next in line would be the day of atonement in which I would hope you dont have to endure here on earth. the idea of this being raptured into protection from great tribulation is clearly displayed in this narrative of the last trump sounding.
Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

As Christ and his army returns to make war with the earth, so much death and destruction that the blood runs as deep as the horses bridal. I sure hope I do not have to deal with that consiquence. And I thank God that Jesus desires to pull me out before that happens.

 

[Sinthesis]

Better to suffer great tribulation than damnation. Therefore our ultimate desire should not be to avoid great tribulation, but to be willing to suffer and in Grace overcome, so as to avoid damnation.

 

[Guest]

Urk,

I haven't changed my mind. If you go back and look you will see I quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:4.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

So the idea that The Rapture is "imminent" is FALSE".

Jesus will not come as a thief in the night for the Church, but for the world.

That's the point I wanted to make.

JLB

How is the rapture false? It's not false, it's clearly written in scripture. What do you think coming like a thief in the night means? It means unexpectedly. You know how a thief breaks into your car at 3:30 in the morning while everyone is asleep? Well, it's the same the thing, but when scripture says thief they aren't speaking about anything bad, no. Jesus will come like a thief for his church first, to protect them! If Jesus is letting the world know that he is coming to gather his church, wouldn't you think the devil would have a field day? Kill, kill, kill. Rather I think, Jesus will come like a thief at rapture and then he will show HIMSELF to the whole world at the second coming.

At least, this is what I think. These are only my opinions so it is ok to analyze. When studying scripture, we meditate on the words. Words have meaning. God is good and the devil is evil, knowing this helps me understand what thief means. Blessings.

 

[lowrab777]

1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

 

[lowrab777]

How is the rapture false? It's not false, it's clearly written in scripture. What do you think coming like a thief in the night means? It means unexpectedly. You know how a thief breaks into your car at 3:30 in the morning while everyone is asleep? Well, it's the same the thing, but when scripture says thief they aren't speaking about anything bad, no. Jesus will come like a thief for his church first, to protect them! If Jesus is letting the world know that he is coming to gather his church, wouldn't you think the devil would have a field day? Kill, kill, kill. Rather I think, Jesus will come like a thief at rapture and then he will show HIMSELF to the whole world at the second coming.

At least, this is what I think. These are only my opinions so it is ok to analyze. When studying scripture, we meditate on the words. Words have meaning. God is good and the devil is evil, knowing this helps me understand what thief means. Blessings.

I agree that the second coming will take alot of people like a thief but as for those who walk in the light I believe it will be a great surprize but no theft will be counted. Thats my personal opinion we all have them.

 

[Guest]

I agree that the second coming will take alot of people like a thief but as for those who walk in the light I believe it will be a great surprize but no theft will be counted. Thats my personal opinion we all have them.

Do you believe the rapture and the second coming are two different events? Also, when do you think Jesus will make the old earth into a new earth, during the thousand year reign with Christ or after the devil and Hades have been thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[jasoncran]

im sorry I don't see God removing a church simply to start another.

 

[Guest]

im sorry I don't see God removing a church simply to start another.

He's not removing us, he's protecting us from the 7 year tribulation, as I believe.

 

[gr8grace]

Urk,

I haven't changed my mind. If you go back and look you will see I quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:4.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

So the idea that The Rapture is "imminent" is FALSE".

Jesus will not come as a thief in the night for the Church, but for the world.

That's the point I wanted to make.

JLB

It is imminent. The thief in the night refers to Christians that are sleeping(reversionism) or to Christians that think that it is not imminent. If we are looking for signs and trying to figure out the day it happens, it will come upon us like a thief in the night.Because it is imminent.

There is no prophecy or signs before the rapture. We just have historical trends to watch. but the degree of the historical trends are not mentioned. We just have birthing pains and apostasy to be aware of.

Distortion of the imminence of the Rapture results in instability and foolish explanation or speculation about the time of the Rapture; hence, James gives us an admonition in JAM 5:7‑8, “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord [the Rapture]. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.â€

We are not to be patient for tribulation or signs, just for the Coming of the Lord.

Passages like 1 TH 5:6; TIT 2:13; REV 3:3, all warn the believer to be watching for the Lord Himself. Not for signs that would precede His coming.

 

[jasoncran]

then when they are to go and baptize in the trib? and also make disciples they are excempt? what about that part in Corinthians about the resurrection? oh yeah he isn't coming back?I see no, exemptions from the nt for any trib saint.

 

[jasoncran]

It is imminent. The thief in the night refers to Christians that are sleeping(reversionism) or to Christians that think that it is not imminent. If we are looking for signs and trying to figure out the day it happens, it will come upon us like a thief in the night.Because it is imminent.

There is no prophecy or signs before the rapture. We just have historical trends to watch. but the degree of the historical trends are not mentioned. We just have birthing pains and apostasy to be aware of.

Distortion of the imminence of the Rapture results in instability and foolish explanation or speculation about the time of the Rapture; hence, James gives us an admonition in JAM 5:7‑8, “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord [the Rapture]. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.”

We are not to be patient for tribulation or signs, just for the Coming of the Lord.

Passages like 1 TH 5:6; TIT 2:13; REV 3:3, all warn the believer to be watching for the Lord Himself. Not for signs that would precede His coming.

thanks. that is close to what I say. and we have had those since he ascended. apostosay, wars and so forth. ie like the days of noah.

 

[Guest]

then when they are to go and baptize in the trib? and also make disciples they are excempt? what about that part in Corinthians about the resurrection? oh yeah he isn't coming back?I see no, exemptions from the nt for any trib saint.

Good question, I see no reason not to believe that the rapture will be the last chance to be saved. By the time the tribulation starts the anti-christ will already have his grip on Israel. He will then begin his plan to deceive the world. Then you're gonna see some real prophecy in the second coming of Christ. Prophecy that will benefit his people. The righteous will be resurrected from the dead. It will be glorious! Be aware though, Satan will be tied up, but he will be released again at the end of the thousand years before the final judgement.

 

[jasoncran]

ok then why would he then still remove a church to start another one in the millennium?


genesis to the cross, the torah and its predecessor in effect(seven noahide laws ), then the cross and its cleansing(grace) until the rapture. then back to the torah for the jew and the noahide laws fore the gentiles?

or is the blood still in effect after this rapture?

 

[Guest]

ok then why would he then still remove a church to start another one in the millennium?

or is the blood still in effect after this rapture?

He's removing his church to protect them from the anti-christ and tribulation. Rather, at the millennium he will not only be reigning with his church from the rapture but also every born again Christian that has died in the past. At the millennium, he will finally collect his church as a whole!!! DEAD AND ALIVE! Every righteous saved person will finally reign with him at the thousand year millennium. Blood? What do you mean?