Should Christians Have Guns?

[Free]

Well, YOU asked for it!

No, I did not. You are in violation of the TOS with your ad hominem attacks. If that is your pic in your avatar, you are old enough to know better. As a Christian, you ought to know better.

If people can't debate as adults and as Christians, then they need to step out.

 

[Pizzaguy]

YOU asked reba to provide a verse to support her statement.

YOU ASKED FOR IT. PERIOD.

 

[Pizzaguy]

If people can't debate as adults and as Christians, then they need to step out.

If that does not apply to Drew, why does it apply to the rest of us?

 

[Free]

YOU asked reba to provide a verse to support her statement.

YOU ASKED FOR IT. PERIOD.

Firstly, you really need to stop misrepresenting what people are saying and/or start quoting better. My comment, "This is completely unnecessary," was clearly addressing her "namby pamby land" comment.

Secondly, no, that verse does not support Christians owning guns.

Thirdly, as to people stepping out, it applies to everyone. Drew has not attacked a single person and has civilly addressed the points people have made in defending his position, while being personally attacked I might add.

 

[reba]

Re: Should Christians Have Guns?

Originally Posted by Sam21
The bible never says that if a man breaks into your house with a gun that God will supernaturally protect you...sorry but that is not a biblical teaching.

That is not what I said and not what my point is. I trust God to keep people out in the first place.

Originally Posted by reba
i posted i was very please DH did not have to kill any one the nite they kicked in ourdoor . reading Pizza i did not catch he killed anyone.

I never said anyone killed anyone. Guns are for one purpose. Having one in one's house, on their person, or in their vehicle (if that's even allowed anywhere), shows that one is willing to take another's life if they have to.

Originally Posted by reba
God has instilled a will to live Common sense to protect ones family and self. Do you wear a jacket to protect you against the cold, Maybe walking stick for dogs, Seat belts?

Firstly, those are hardly sufficient comparisons to being willing to take the life of another human. Secondly, please don't argue to "common sense," unless you can first show that it is biblically okay for "common sense" to, at least temporarily, override the Christian ideal, the gospel message, the message of the Kingdom, or however you want to word it.

Originally Posted by reba
Show me a scripture that tells me not to protect my family and self from the rapist, robber, killer or other bad guy

.



Show me a scripture that does...


<DIR>This was post #64</DIR>
​

 

[reba]

I pray you and family are never in the place we were.... Shotgun, rape, murder, robbery, is what was going on were we lived Cops believed it was the same guys killed an man in his 70 and raped his wife. beat them up first.. The cops believe it was the same guys that invaded a good hand full of homes. Been years but i think they killed 4 - 5 folks...

Social changes take time the bad guys did not give the old man time... And really social changes to prevent crime? Abe licolin was from a broken home and very poor. Crime is a choice.

I am done here you choose to live in namby pamby land....

Here is my post # 67 this is when namby pamby land shows up.....

 

[reba]

Firstly, you really need to stop misrepresenting what people are saying and/or start quoting better. My comment, "This is completely unnecessary," was clearly addressing her "namby pamby land" comment.

Secondly, no, that verse does not support Christians owning guns.

Thirdly, as to people stepping out, it applies to everyone. Drew has not attacked a single person and has civilly addressed the points people have made in defending his position, while being personally attacked I might add.

Your post # 84

 

[reba]

You asked for a verse "that does" in post 64 mamby pamby land was 67 And read what you say in post #84 i think maybe apolgy is owed to the pizza guy

 

[demonXecutor]

Just because a Christian owns a gun, doesn't mean that he or she is ready or willing to take a life.
Why does a police officer have a gun? To protect himself and to protect the public.

Mat 26:52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. (NKJV)
KJV Joh 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Putting this scripture in "context" is:
#1 Christ Jesus said, Scripture had to be fulfilled concerning this situation.
#2 Christ Jesus said, If He wanted to, He could call 12 legions of angels to come to His rescue.
#3 Christ Jesus said, I am not a thief, so why are you coming after me with swords.

KJV Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
Mat 26:55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
Mat 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mat 26:55 Christ Jesus was saying you would be justified coming at me with swords if I was a thief.

Question: Why did Jesus allow Simon Peter to carry a sword? Was it not for protection?

So, if I'm a Christian who owns a gun, and a thief is breaking into my house with the intent of harming my family, not because I'm a Christian mind you, but because he holds no value for human life or his own, and I warn him that I have a gun, but he doesn't listen, I shoot him and kill him, then that means that I am ready and willing to take a life? Am I not protecting the life of others?

Murderers and the like carry guns to murder people, but God fearing, law abiding Christian citizens carry guns to protect themselves and others. So no, I don't find it disturbing at all that Christians have guns.

KJV Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for MY SAKE and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

KJV Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for MY NAME'S SAKE.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

When they come to kill Christians because they serve Christ Jesus, then they're supposed to lay down their life willingly as an example.

As for me, I don't own a gun, but I don't oppose other Christians who own guns. Who am I, as a Christian, to judge others in this matter, as if to say because they own a gun and I don't--makes them less of a Christian? I choose to judge myself.

I find it disturbing that Christians offend other Christians who have different levels of spiritual growth.

KJV Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

 

[old_tractor]

I would point out that jasoncran is correct in regards to the UK. Knives have simply replaced guns as the principle weapon in homicides. Since the effete British goverment has failed in its attempt to control crime by depriving their subjects (as opposed to citizens ) of firearms ownership they are now working on the problem by creating "anti-stab" knives:

First 'anti-stab' knife to go on sale in Britain - Times Online

I really don't know why they don't simply ban all knives. It would make as much sense.

As usual, there is always the person who desires to make a "loaded" comparison of crime rates in the US vs. effeminate Euro countries, Japan, etc. This is a deliberately false comparison of cherry-picked countries. They never cite, say...Switzerland. Switzerland has universal military service. After their active service, men remain in the ready reserve (something comparable to the national guard) until essentially old-age and take their military, fully automatic weapons and keep them at home (with an "emergency supply" of ammunition).

Thus, almost every adult male in Switzerland has a full-auto military weapon kept in his home or domicile. The homicide rate in Switzerland is comparable to that of other European countries that have "gun control".

The crazy Swiss gun nuts who by law mandate that adult citizens have "assault rifles" in their homes have a homicide rate (per 100,000 population) of 0.70 while...

Norway - 0.60
Germany - 0.86
Sweden - 0.90
Spain - 0.90
Netherlands - 0.92
Denmark - 1.01
Ireland - 1.12
United Kingdom - 1.28
Portugal - 1.20
Italy - 1.20
Ireland - 1.12
France - 1.40
Belgium - 1.49

And, there's that other sissy, effeminate land for comparison...

Canada - 1.81

Since, among european countries which are always used as a comparison with the US, firearm availability does not seem to correlate to high homicide rates, it is possible that cultural factors are more important than simple availability of firearms.

One could also cite regimes where there is no access to firearms such as:

Cuba - 5.50

The fact that the US homicide rate is 5.00 is perhaps indicative of cultural factors. Where the race of the perpetrator is known, african-americans represent 51% of perpetrators while only 12% of the total population (Dept Of Justice - FBI Uniform Crime Reports). Once african-americans are factored out, the crime rate of "europeans" in the US is comparable to "europeans" in europe.

Lastly, I have quite an arsenal myself and my guns have killed fewer people that Ted Kennedy's automobiles. ;)

 

[Cornelius]

Christ DID exhort his Disciples to buy an “assault weapon”. The Sword was the “assault weapon” of the day.

The only reason why Jesus told them to go ahead and buy a sword is so that the prophecy about Jesus could be fulfilled. He had to be reckoned among the transgressors. They became transgressors , the moment they has swords.

Luk 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this which is written must be fulfilled in me, And he was reckoned with transgressors: for that which concerneth me hath fulfilment.

They were transgressing this command : Mat 5:39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Admittedly this is a difficult thing to do. You have believe that God will protect you and your family. Faith is required and trust.

As a young Christian I was walking down the street at a late hour. Saw two men kicking a third man who was down already. The Holy Spirit said : "Go and stop them" . Well I thought I must hearing incorrectly because I am not a huge guy and not a fighter. But God kept on pushing me to go. So I did. I walked over to them, came up behind them and placed one hand on each of them as said : "What would God say about what you are doing now?" Both men fell to the ground and one called out :"Please help me I am lost" I was just as stunned as they were. The guy they were beating got up and ran away. Next the police arrived and God worked another miracle. They were not charged and both those guys followed me home. I got to tell them about Jesus and even though they did not "give their hearts to the Lord" in the traditional way that day, I know God had met with both of them.

We do not need guns or swords if we have the Holy Spirit in us .

 

[jasoncran]

The only reason why Jesus told them to go ahead and buy a sword is so that the prophecy about Jesus could be fulfilled. He had to be reckoned among the transgressors. They became transgressors , the moment they has swords.

Luk 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this which is written must be fulfilled in me, And he was reckoned with transgressors: for that which concerneth me hath fulfilment.

They were transgressing this command : Mat 5:39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Admittedly this is a difficult thing to do. You have believe that God will protect you and your family. Faith is required and trust.

As a young Christian I was walking down the street at a late hour. Saw two men kicking a third man who was down already. The Holy Spirit said : "Go and stop them" . Well I thought I must hearing incorrectly because I am not a huge guy and not a fighter. But God kept on pushing me to go. So I did. I walked over to them, came up behind them and placed one hand on each of them as said : "What would God say about what you are doing now?" Both men fell to the ground and one called out :"Please help me I am lost" I was just as stunned as they were. The guy they were beating got up and ran away. Next the police arrived and God worked another miracle. They were not charged and both those guys followed me home. I got to tell them about Jesus and even though they did not "give their hearts to the Lord" in the traditional way that day, I know God had met with both of them.

We do not need guns or swords if we have the Holy Spirit in us .

it doesnt always work that way.

and jesus tells someone buy something and not use it?

that makes no sense.

that would be like someone here who says prostitution is legal and moral as hoshea married one and God told him to marry a prostitute.

your argument would have a case if the bible said and they bought the swords and never was mentioned of jesus telling them to buy a sword.

 

[jasoncran]

japan, did somebody say japan is safe?

man i like the sword arts and its ironic i couldnt even buy a wakasashi or katana there.

Tightened weapons law enacted to ban double-edged knives › Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

and just so you know deavonrye is for socialised medicine, kinda makes that help the criminal arguement weak

i broke the law and i will get into why i did it later.

 

[bibleMAN]

Did Jesus say it's okay to kill people in self defense?

Is that what he meant by "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:39

That must have been a translation error. Perhaps what he REALLY meant was "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, pull out a revolver and shoot them in the guts."

 

[handy]

Not sure that we are meant to equate someone striking one on the cheek, an assault on one's pride, but not particularly dangerous, to being in a life or death situation.

 

[Pizzaguy]

POST DELETED BY PIZZA WHILE FREE AND I TALK IN PM's

 

[Drew]

Reality can be hard to take ... some of us are not up to it, Reba.

Enough with the slogans please- please deal with the actual fact that many other advanced nations are safer to live in than the US even though the general population do not have guns.

 

[Drew]

Drew attacks me in any post he addresses me. I am sure you can READ, but it is obvious that what the words actually say go beyond your intellectual capabilities.

I have posted nothing that could be reasonably taken to be an "attack". If you wish to define my calling you to support your assertions as an "attack", then so be it.

 

[Drew]

Well, YOU asked for it!
(And it is NOT out of context. Providing for your family includes food, shelter, and safety from known dangers or threats. Well, in MY bible it does, anyway.)

You are presuming that "protecting your family" is best done via the gun. Not only are there a myriad of other ways to "protect your family", like dealing with the social problems and institutional evils that lead to the violent threat that you so fear, the evidence suggests that having a gun in the home actually places the members of your family at increased risk.

 

[Drew]

If that does not apply to Drew, why does it apply to the rest of us?

How, and please be precise, are my posts not "adult" in nature?

I fully suspect that, just as in the OSAS thread where you would not answer a difficult question, you will not produce any evidence to support your insinuation here.