Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[RND]

Gentiles were not given "ten principles". They were given the Law of Love with the Decalogue as a backdrop, a continuity to our shared past.

Hmm, so does that mean God is a respecter of persons? He gave the Hebrews one law but the gentiles another? Is that to suggest that God was OK with gentiles breaking the provisions of the Decalogue?

Weren't the Hebrews instructed in the law of Moshe to love love with all their heart, mind and soul? Weren't the Hebrews instructed in the law of Moshe to love their brother and the stranger as they would love themselves?

 

[francisdesales]

Without means "outside of." Those that were born "outside" of the law of Moses are saved "outside" of the law of Moses. When those that do the things of the law, even though they were born outside of it, they provide evidence that the law is written on their hearts.

No one is saved BY the Law of Moses, doesn't Paul make that clear enough in Galatians and Romans??? The point I am making is whether someone is BOUND by the Law of Moses, not whether it can save me or Jews...

The "works of the law" were unnecessary for salvation., i.e. the sacrificing of animals, etc.

Jews and those who desire to bind themselves to the Law of Moses are bound by it, not that it can save in of itself. It is faith in God that saves - and obeying the Law of Moses is an expression of faith (for Jews and "Judaizers"). It is the faith in God that saves.

When we review Romans 2 we should take into consideration just exactly how Paul frames the conversation:

Paul is saying, quite succinctly, that one can boast in the law of Moses and still be a lawbreaker.

Paul is saying that such persons are hypocrites... He is comparing the proud Jews and their law, which they weren't following, to the Gentiles who had no law (written) and yet were SPIRITUAL Jews, which made them RIGHTEOUS.

He goes on to point out that a man who is circumcised violates the law then his circumcision is actually counted as uncircumcision! As if he was never part of the house of Israel. So therefore if a man that has been circumcised in the heart steals or otherwise breaks the law then his circumcision is counted as uncircumcision.

In other words, when one binds themselves to a Law, the Mosaic Law, they are bound to follow ALL of it. EVERY BIT OF IT. No pork eating, no working on Saturdays, and stoning any women who commit adultery or blaspheme the name of the Lord...

Thus, those who bind themselves to the Mosaic Law are considered spiritually uncircumcised, even if they go to church on Saturday, if they do not follow ALL of the MOSAIC LAW.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Gentiles were not given "ten principles". They were given the Law of Love with the Decalogue as a backdrop, a continuity to our shared past.

Hmm, so does that mean God is a respecter of persons? He gave the Hebrews one law but the gentiles another? Is that to suggest that God was OK with gentiles breaking the provisions of the Decalogue?

God decided to set apart a particular people from whom the Messiah would be born. A people that others would see were holy by their being given the Written Law and the Prophets. Paul also speaks of this "advantage" in Romans, if you care to consult the Scriptures...

God judges the Gentiles differently, by a different law. But as Romans says, that doesn't mean God is a "respecter" of persons... Everyone is judged based on what God has given them. To those who have been given, more shall be required from them.

Weren't the Hebrews instructed in the law of Moshe to love love with all their heart, mind and soul? Weren't the Hebrews instructed in the law of Moshe to love their brother and the stranger as they would love themselves?

Yes, they were, but they were also instructed to not eat pork and stone adulterous women via the Mosaic Law. The principles of the Ten Commandments are not exactly unique or new. People before Moses knew it was wrong to murder.

Regards

 

[shad]

No one is saved BY the Law of Moses, doesn't Paul make that clear enough in Galatians and Romans??? The point I am making is whether someone is BOUND by the Law of Moses, not whether it can save me or Jews...

Ten Commandments are not Moses laws. It is God's laws. And Jesus says "If you love me, keep my commandments."
.

 

[RND]

No one is saved BY the Law of Moses,

That's right, no one was or has ever been saved by the law of Moses. That might explain why we don't sacrifice animals anymore! The last sacrifice has been made.

Jews and those who desire to bind themselves to the Law of Moses are bound by it, not that it can save in of itself. It is faith in God that saves - and obeying the Law of Moses is an expression of faith (for Jews and "Judaizers"). It is the faith in God that saves.

That's right, that has always been the case. Abraham was saved in the same fashion.

Paul is saying that such persons are hypocrites... He is comparing the proud Jews and their law, which they weren't following, to the Gentiles who had no law (written) and yet were SPIRITUAL Jews, which made them RIGHTEOUS.

And yet we see the gentiles were evidence of the law written on their hearts.

In other words, when one binds themselves to a Law, the Mosaic Law, they are bound to follow ALL of it. EVERY BIT OF IT.

The Ten Commandments were never part of the Mosaic law.

No pork eating, no working on Saturdays, and stoning any women who commit adultery or blaspheme the name of the Lord...

That's not what Jesus instructed.

Thus, those who bind themselves to the Mosaic Law are considered spiritually uncircumcised, even if they go to church on Saturday, if they do not follow ALL of the MOSAIC LAW.

No, you are missing the point of what Paul is saying. He states quite plainly that if boast in the law and yet steals then their circumcision in the heart is counted as nothing.

If we followed your point to it's logical conclusion the state then should stone Tiger Woods for his alleged adultery because they keep part of the Ten Commandments. The state has laws against stealing, lying, coveting, murder so it keeps "part of the law." Is the state not bound to keep the "whole" law then?

 

[RND]

God decided to set apart a particular people from whom the Messiah would be born. A people that others would see were holy by their being given the Written Law and the Prophets. Paul also speaks of this "advantage" in Romans, if you care to consult the Scriptures...

God also set the Israelites apart so as to teach the other nations what a truly awesome God they truly had.

God judges the Gentiles differently, by a different law.

Really? He does? That would make God a respecter of persons.

But as Romans says, that doesn't mean God is a "respecter" of persons... Everyone is judged based on what God has given them. To those who have been given, more shall be required from them.

So then God doesn't have different standards but judges based on what people knew of those standards.

Yes, they were, but they were also instructed to not eat pork and stone adulterous women via the Mosaic Law.

Right, not the Ten Commandments. BTW, you should really check out Numbers - it was so easy to say a woman was an adulteress as you might think.

The principles of the Ten Commandments are not exactly unique or new. People before Moses knew it was wrong to murder.

You must be referring to the Hammurabi code. In the Hammurabi code justice was based on one's status in life. The higher wrung on the ladder you were the less likely one would receive the same justice of someone lower. The Ten Commandments and Mosaic law made no such distinction.

 

[francisdesales]

That's right, no one was or as ever been saved by the law of Moses. That might explain why we don't sacrifice animals anymore! The last sacrifice has been made.

These were merely a shadow of the good things to come, signs pointing to the reality, Jesus Christ. No use in looking for a sign "20 miles to Phoenix" when you are already in Phoenix...

That's right, that has always been the case. Abraham was saved in the same fashion.

Yes, by faith expressed by his actions, not by obedience to the Law.

And yet we see the gentiles were evidence of the law written on their hearts.

That law was clearly not the Mosaic law, but God's Law of Love (which is partially written in the Decalogue).

The Ten Commandments were never part of the Mosaic law.

???? I never heard such a statement... Of course there were, they were given by God to the people through Moses, just as the rest of the Mosaic laws of cult. You are again attempting to separate parts of the Mosaic Law, NOW by making an unscriptural statement that the Decalogue was not part of the Mosaic Law. Have you forgotten what happened at the foot of Mt. Sinai and the giving of the Law by Moses and the promise to obey it???

If we followed your point to it's logical conclusion the state then should stone Tiger Woods for his alleged adultery because they keep part of the Ten Commandments. The state has laws against stealing, lying, coveting, murder so it keeps "part of the law." Is the state not bound to keep the "whole" law then?

First, Tiger Woods is not a female. Secondly, we are not a Jewish theocracy. And finally, as a secular country with a Christian background, we are not bound by the Jewish Mosaic Law. We claim to live by the principles of the Decalogue, but when we look more closely, we don't follow them all to a "T", because Christianity is not based UPON the Decalogue, but on Jesus Christ's interpretations of the Law and His New Covenant. We are not bound to the Old Covenant, and this has been repeated over and over again.

Regards

 

[RND]

These were merely a shadow of the good things to come, signs pointing to the reality, Jesus Christ. No use in looking for a sign "20 miles to Phoenix" when you are already in Phoenix...

So then you'd agree that the Ten Commandments weren't a type or a shadow pointing to Christ, right? If not, how did the 6th commandment (or the others) point to Jesus' ministry?

Yes, by faith expressed by his actions, not by obedience to the Law.

Right. That's how all are saved. Faith in the promises of God. Now, does that promise do away with the Ten Commandments?

But certainly you'd agree that God promises long life to those that obey Him and His law - did God remove this promise?

Pro 13:14 The law of the wise [is] a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

That law was clearly not the Mosaic law, but God's Law of Love (which is partially written in the Decalogue).

Doesn't all the law and prophets hang on those two principals?

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

???? I never heard such a statement... Of course there were, they were given by God to the people through Moses, just as the rest of the Mosaic laws of cult.

Oh, you've heard that many times I'm sure. If there weren't separate why was one set kept "inside" the Ark whereas the other was kept on the "outside" of the Ark?

You are again attempting to separate parts of the Mosaic Law, NOW by making an unscriptural statement that the Decalogue was not part of the Mosaic Law.

I didn't separate the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic law, God Himself did.

Have you forgotten what happened at the foot of Mt. Sinai and the giving of the Law by Moses and the promise to obey it???

No, I haven't forgotten that. Have you forgotten that God Himself wrote His covenant on stone and that Moses wrote in the book?

First, Tiger Woods is not a female.

The law made no distinction as to whether a man or woman should be stoned.

Secondly, we are not a Jewish theocracy.

Where is the distinction made that nations are not required to observe God's Ten Commandments?

And finally, as a secular country with a Christian background, we are not bound by the Jewish Mosaic Law.

Then why do we uphold certain parts of the Ten Commandments? Or maybe the country isn't actually observing them.

We claim to live by the principles of the Decalogue, but when we look more closely, we don't follow them all to a "T", because Christianity is not based UPON the Decalogue, but on Jesus Christ's interpretations of the Law and His New Covenant.

How did Jesus "intrepret" the Ten Commandments when it is Jesus that wrote them? But back to your point. So because the country doesn't prosecute adulterers then by extension in your mind adultery is OK?

We are not bound to the Old Covenant, and this has been repeated over and over again.

That's right, we are bound by the laws that God Himself has written in every heart. That's why people know instinctively that stealing, murder, lying, adultery, worshiping false gods, etc., are wrong and not of God - these things go against the principals of His government.

 

[Brother Lionel]

So Francis,
How can stealing, adultery, murder, and all of the other violations of the commandments still be considered sinful but at the same time, Christians are not expected to keep the ten commandments???

From a common sense perspective, doesnt that sound contradictory??

 

[JudaicChristian]

Moses laws are not the commandments of God. The disciples preached the keeping of Gods commandments.

 

[glorydaz]

The Old Covenant was the stone law...including the 10 commandments.

Jesus brought a new and better covenant.
The commandments we're to follow are the precepts or teachings of Jesus.
:amen

 

[RND]

The commandments we're to follow are the precepts or teachings of Jesus.
:amen

glorydaz, would you agree that the standards Jesus introduced in the Sermon on the Mount were considerably higher than the standards established by the Ten Commandments?

Here is a great book that I think you might find of interest:

 

[RND]

Speaking of the law, Jesus said, "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." He here used the word "fulfill" in the same sense as when He declared to John the Baptist His purpose to "fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15); that is, to fill up the measure of the law's requirement, to give an example of perfect conformity to the will of God.

His mission was to "magnify the law, and make it honorable." Isaiah 42:21. He was to show the spiritual nature of the law, to present its far-reaching principles, and to make plain its eternal obligation.

The divine beauty of the character of Christ, of whom the noblest and most gentle among men are but a faint reflection; of whom Solomon by the Spirit of inspiration wrote, He is "the chiefest among ten thousand, . . . yea, He is altogether lovely" (Song of Solomon 5:10-16); of whom David, seeing Him in prophetic vision, said, "Thou art fairer than the children of men" (Psalm 45:2); Jesus, the express image of the Father's person, the effulgence of His glory; the self-denying Redeemer, throughout His pilgrimage of love on earth, was a living representation of the character of the law of God. In His life it is made manifest that heaven-born love, Christlike principles, underlie the laws of eternal rectitude.

"Till heaven and earth pass," said Jesus, "one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." By His own obedience to the law, Christ testified to its immutable character and proved that through His grace it could be perfectly obeyed by every son and daughter of Adam. On the mount He declared that not the smallest iota should pass from the law till all things should be accomplished--all things that concern the human race, all that relates to the plan of redemption. He does not teach that the law is ever to be abrogated, but He fixes the eye upon the utmost verge of man's horizon and assures us that until this point is reached the law will retain its authority so that none may suppose it was His mission to abolish the precepts of the law. So long as heaven and earth continue, the holy principles of God's law will remain. His righteousness, "like the great mountains" (Psalm 36:6), will continue, a source of blessing, sending forth streams to refresh the earth. - Ellen White, Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings, page 48-50

 

[RND]

Because the law of the Lord is perfect, and therefore changeless, it is impossible for sinful men, in themselves, to meet the standard of its requirement. This was why Jesus came as our Redeemer. It was His mission, by making men partakers of the divine nature, to bring them into harmony with the principles of the law of heaven. When we forsake our sins and receive Christ as our Saviour, the law is exalted. The apostle Paul asks, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31.

The new-covenant promise is, "I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." Hebrews 10:16. While the system of types which pointed to Christ as the Lamb of God that should take away the sin of the world was to pass away at His death, the principles of righteousness embodied in the Decalogue are as immutable as the eternal throne. Not one command has been annulled, not a jot or tittle has been changed. Those principles that were made known to man in Paradise as the great law of life will exist unchanged in Paradise restored. When Eden shall bloom on earth again, God's law of love will be obeyed by all beneath the sun.

"Forever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven." "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness." "Concerning Thy testimonies, I have known of old that Thou hast founded them forever." Psalms 119:89; 111:7, 8; 119:152.

"Whosoever . . . shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19.

That is, he shall have no place therein. For he who willfully breaks one commandment, does not, in spirit and truth, keep any of them. "Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10.

It is not the greatness of the act of disobedience that constitutes sin, but the fact of variance from God's expressed will in the least particular; for this shows that there is yet communion between the soul and sin. The heart is divided in its service. There is a virtual denial of God, a rebellion against the laws of His government. - Ellen White, Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings, page 50-51

 

[glorydaz]

The commandments we're to follow are the precepts or teachings of Jesus.
:amen

glorydaz, would you agree that the standards Jesus introduced in the Sermon on the Mount were considerably higher than the standards established by the Ten Commandments?

Looks like a good book. :yes

Yes, the standards are much higher. Now, if we look at a woman with lust we've committed adultery already with her in our heart. If someone takes our coat, we not only have to forgive him but we have to give him the shirt off our back. (modern language version). Now, Jesus looks at our hearts...not just our actions. It's a good thing He left us the Comforter to help us out, isn't it?

 

[glorydaz]

Because the law of the Lord is perfect, and therefore changeless, it is impossible for sinful men, in themselves, to meet the standard of its requirement.

Exactly.. that was a great post.
The Lord is showing us that we can not, in our own strength, please God.
He made it impossible for us to keep the commandments He set forth.
The Jews thought the Ten were hard to keep...try these on for size. :yes
We will always fail unless we allow Him to go before us.
Every thought, not just every action, must be under subjection.
We can't do it....so we need the help of the Holy Spirit and the mind of Christ.

Love is the answer....it covers a multitude of sins.

 

[RND]

Because the law of the Lord is perfect, and therefore changeless, it is impossible for sinful men, in themselves, to meet the standard of its requirement.

Exactly.. that was a great post.
The Lord is showing us that we can not, in our own strength, please God.
He made it impossible for us to keep the commandments He set forth.

He made it impossible for us to keep these commandments without Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit!

The Jews thought the Ten were hard to keep...try these on for size. :yes
We will always fail unless we allow Him to go before us.
Every thought, not just every action, must be under subjection.
We can't do it....so we need the help of the Holy Spirit and the mind of Christ.

Love is the answer....it covers a multitude of sins.

Indeed. We establish the law by faith.

 

[follower of Christ]

I guess the subject title said it all. Its a simple question that I feel needs to be addressed within the Christian community. If you believe that we do, why? If you believe that we dont, why?

Is the Law of Moses still in effect today?
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
To show that the law of Moses and the old covenant were made void and obsolete at the Cross with Jesus' death to ratify this new testament.

Supporting Evidence
Firstly understand that Jesus was a Jew born under law. The law would be in effect until His death ratified His new testament and made the old 'obsolete' (not destroyed, simply unneeded, made void).
While Christ yet lived the law was to be kept because it had not yet be set aside.

For this is the covenant which I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind, and I shall inscribe them upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And by no means will they teach each one his fellow citizen, and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I shall by no means remember anymore."
By the saying "new ," He has made the first obsolete. And the one becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish.
(Heb 8:10-13 EMTV)


obsolete
G3822
???????
palaio?
pal-ah-yo'-o
From G3820; to make (passively become) worn out, or declare obsolete: - decay, make (wax) old.


G3822
???????
palaio?
Thayer Definition:
1) to make ancient or old
1a) to become old, to be worn out
1b) of things worn out by time and use
2) to declare a thing to be old and so about to be abrogated

In order for this to happen, however, Jesus had to die. His 'testament', sort of like a Last Will and Testament, could not go into effect until His death.

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
(Heb 9:15-18 KJV)

So His testament begins at His death, which effectively 'nullified' the old testament, for all intents and purposes.
But again, while He lived the law was still intact and to be obeyed and followed.

The law had a purpose. That purpose was fulfilled in Christ...

Why then the law?
It was added on account of transgressions, until the Seed should come to whom it had been promised; and it was commanded through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now the mediator is not for one person, but God is one.
Therefore, is the law against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
But the scripture has confined all under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, having been hemmed in for the faith which was to be revealed.
Therefore the law has become our custodian, leading us to Christ, so that we might be justified by faith.
But after faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian.
(Gal 3:19-25 EMTV)

Its not that Christ destroyed the law, He simply was the fulfillment of the purpose of the law.

Hebrews says this;

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(Heb 7:12 KJV)

based on the whole NT, my view is that Jesus is saying that until its purpose was fufilled, the law was to remain intact and be followed.
The evidence shows that its purpose was fulfilled at the cross with the ratification of His new covenant.

 

[RND]

As we read this history (The Book of Numbers - Chapter 25), it seems almost incredible that a man could be so blinded by the bewitching power of woman as to indulge such stubborn and Heaven-daring rebellion, in face of the most terrible visitations of divine wrath. But human nature is the same in every age. The temptations of Satan are no less strong today than in the days of ancient Israel.

Satan has ever achieved his greatest successes through the neglect of God's people to maintain their separation from the world,--its customs, its practices, and principles. There are but two great parties among men,--the servants of Christ, and the servants of Satan. Their leaders are opposites in every particular. Our Lord Jesus Christ, who came to conquer the prince of darkness, says, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." Here Christ makes a marked distinction between his followers and the world. Those who are of the world are in direct opposition to those who love God and keep his commandments. The heart must be kept with all diligence, that the human be not exalted above the divine. If those who profess to love and serve God, follow blind impulse, rather than reason and conscience, they will fall by the artifice of Satan. The affections should be guarded and controlled, lest they be placed upon unworthy objects, that are forbidden in the word of God. - Ellen G White. Sign of the Times, December 30, 1880

 

[Brother Lionel]

So, follower of Christ, are you saying that Jesus abolished the Ten Commandments?