Should the churches have some say in divorce

[Willie T]

Humm... a band called David?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Humm... a band called David?

Well, hog snot, I never knew:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Band_Called_David

 

[Kathi]

Like any sin, if an unBiblical divorce represents a willful contempt and thumbing of the nose at the forgiveness of God they have received in Christ then they will indeed go to hell. If the unBiblical divorce is because of lack of knowledge or because of weakness there is lots of room for God's forgiveness for the person who seeks it. And that is what I think we need to see in the church: Not an acceptance of divorce no questions asked, but an honest acceptance of what the Bible says about it and moving the person who has sinned in this regard toward an acknowledging and renouncing of that sin and into the forgiveness of Christ. That's what grace is all about.



Might need to? If they want to be obedient to Christ they have to remain single if no grounds for Biblical divorce exist. It's a toughee but it's the truth. The church needs to help people with this, not make it go away.

They will go to hell?That depends.We are all sinners.You and I .We sin every day.We repent of those sins.Who is to say that someone is going to hell unless they are an unbelievers.I am OSAS and I know that you are not a believer in OSAS.If a person is divorcing a spouse for petty reasons that is wrong.But if you are talking about abuse that is in a different ballpark.I have known couple where infidelity is involved and they have stayed together.Yes,the Bible does say that they need to remain single if they do not have a Biblical divorce.Some stay single even if they did have a Biblical divorce.

 

[Kathi]

What is more important here is that you need to know the person you are marrying very,very well.Do not marry unevenly yoked.Marrying for a lifetime is a very,very long time to share your life with that person.Take is very seriously.

 

[Deborah13]

These are tough questions. I think that the church already has this power.
The RCC's, hold over someone who divorces without their permission is that they are excommunicate by the church. This instills great fear because the way they get their sins forgiven is by confessing to the priest, not the Lord. So take that element away and guess what they are doomed to hell forever, they cannot receive forgiveness, that is what they believe.

In the Protestant faith the same thing can happen. Get kick out of the church. However, there is not the same element of fear of church power. We receive forgiveness directly through Christ, not a pastor. And one can always attend a different church.

I don't know and have never read that the Jewish church has ever excommunicated a man for giving his wife a 'get', a divorce decree. idk I do know that if he does that then she is free to remarry. I have read the wording in a modern day 'get', it reads like the principles that are in the OT divorce decree. I also know that the Rabbi's decide what settlement and support the man will provide to his wife and children. In the cases where a man leaves his wife but refuses to give her a 'get' the Rabbi's will step in and try to force him to do that because it is unfair to the wife to not give her, her freedom.

So I don't see how the church could have anymore power than it already does. In the theocracy that God Himself set up the church did not hand out divorce decrees and divorce was not given by any court or priest. At least I don't see it in the law of Moses or the NT.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Are you sure its just the threat of excommunication that keeps the Catholic couples together? I don't think its just the stigma and all attached to divorce. I think there's something about the Catholic community that helps keep marriages intact.

 

[Malachi]

Divorce is something which happens after the fact (and is generally ugly and damaging to the children). Therefore the focus should really be on helping Christians understand what God expects from a Christian marriage BEFORE people get married.

Which means that those who are supposedly shepherds in the churches should be truly "shepherding" and not simply doing a job. Divorce among Christians is a disgrace, but the blame must fall on the pastors and elders. If they are true to their calling (not a career or a job) then every Christian young person would know how to go into marriage with their eyes open and their hearts fixed on doing the will of God. They would understand clearly that Christian marriage is between regenerated individuals who are making a commitment for life (until death do us part) and there is absolutely no excuse for divorce other than what the Lord has allowed. Divorce would be moot.

 

[Deborah13]

Are you sure its just the threat of excommunication that keeps the Catholic couples together? I don't think its just the stigma and all attached to divorce. I think there's something about the Catholic community that helps keep marriages intact.

That is not what I said. I didn't say that is what causes their marriages to succeed I'm sure that community and family is a part of that. What I did say is that IF they wanted to get a divorce they are afraid to because it is the priest who absolves them of their sin.
I'm not guessing about this. I knew a family of six adult children and their mother. When her abusive husband of 15 yrs. took a hammer to her head cracking her skull she finally ask the RCC to grant her a divorce. They finally did. The sisters, mom, and I were visiting and the subject came up because her daughter-in-law had just divorced her abusive son. I asked the mom why she had sought the permission of the RCC when she had been beaten enough and almost killed. She told me that if she didn't she would be excommunicated and no longer be able to have the priest absolve her of her sins.

 

[Deborah13]

Divorce is something which happens after the fact (and is generally ugly and damaging to the children). Therefore the focus should really be on helping Christians understand what God expects from a Christian marriage BEFORE people get married.

Which means that those who are supposedly shepherds in the churches should be truly "shepherding" and not simply doing a job. Divorce among Christians is a disgrace, but the blame must fall on the pastors and elders. If they are true to their calling (not a career or a job) then every Christian young person would know how to go into marriage with their eyes open and their hearts fixed on doing the will of God. They would understand clearly that Christian marriage is between regenerated individuals who are making a commitment for life (until death do us part) and there is absolutely no excuse for divorce other than what the Lord has allowed. Divorce would be moot.

I agree with you. However,
Many people do not know the Lord until after they are already married or divorced and remarried. That is why Paul addresses marriages where only one spouse is a Christian.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I think the high divorce rate amongst Born Again Christians is further evidence that people are being converted en masse, but not receiving discipling. I don't know how that's supposed to happen, though.

 

[Kathi]

I agree with you. However,
Many people do not know the Lord until after they are already married or divorced and remarried. That is why Paul addresses marriages where only one spouse is a Christian.

That is true.The wife becomes a Christian into the marriage.The husband remains an atheist.I know two examples of that.Steven Baldwin's wife became a born again Christian.Steven Baldwin in a famous actor. Steven Baldwin became a Christian after watching his wife for quite sometime as she had changed in her new roll as a Christian.Lee Strobel is the author of "A Case for Christ".He was an atheist.His wife became a Christian.He said that he was so angry that he almost divorced her.Now he has his own ministry.

 

[Deborah13]

I think the high divorce rate amongst Born Again Christians is further evidence that people are being converted en masse, but not receiving discipling. I don't know how that's supposed to happen, though.

We also have to remember that because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean that they are born again.
I have not seen the figures for born again Christians just people who say they are a Christian and attend church.
I have seen 50% in the church among all who say they are Christians. Is it that high for born again Christians?

 

[Kathi]

We also have to remember that because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean that they are born again.
I have seen the figures for born again Christians just people who say they are a Christian and attend church.
I have seen 50% in the church among all who say they are Christians. Is it that high for born again Christians?

There are billions of people who are a Christian in name only.

 

[Christ_empowered]

wheat and tares...story as old as Christianity itself. Still, I read somewhere...maybe Barna group...conservative Born Agains don't have a lower divorce rate than the general population. Of course, divorce is affected also by social class, educational attainment, age at first marriage, whether its a 1st marriage or not, so on and so forth. There's lots of factors that go into increasing or decreasing the divorce rate, and I don't know how much being Born Again can negate or at least mitigate some of those.

 

[Deborah13]

Divorce is something which happens after the fact (and is generally ugly and damaging to the children). Therefore the focus should really be on helping Christians understand what God expects from a Christian marriage BEFORE people get married.

Which means that those who are supposedly shepherds in the churches should be truly "shepherding" and not simply doing a job. Divorce among Christians is a disgrace, but the blame must fall on the pastors and elders. If they are true to their calling (not a career or a job) then every Christian young person would know how to go into marriage with their eyes open and their hearts fixed on doing the will of God. They would understand clearly that Christian marriage is between regenerated individuals who are making a commitment for life (until death do us part) and there is absolutely no excuse for divorce other than what the Lord has allowed. Divorce would be moot.

You have caused me to think about something else the church should be involved in. Teens, long before they decide to marry should be taught how to spot people who appear to be something they are not. People who masquerade.
Abusive relationships have come up several times in this thread. Women are not the only ones who fall prey to these masqueraders.

 

[Kathi]

You have caused me to think about something else the church should be involved in. Teens, long before they decide to marry should be taught how to spot people who appear to be something they are not. People who masquerade.
Abusive relationships have come up several times in this thread. Women are not the only ones who fall prey to these masqueraders.

Oh yes Deborah.It is so easy for girls to go astray and get involved with the wrong man because of a dysfunctional relationship with a father.Some men know how to pick out these women.

 

[iLOVE]

What God says about divorce or any subject must over rule what you think, what your friends think, what your neighbor thinks, and how you feel that might be the reality at the moment. And the goal of government is to act on Gods behalf in promoting good and limiting evil. God is not against government. God established government, but He did not establish it to compete with Him.

 

[Kathi]

What God says about divorce must over rule what you think, what your friends think, what your neighbor thinks, and how you feel that might be the reality at the moment. And the goal of government is to act on Gods behalf in promoting good and limiting evil. God is not against government. God established government, but He did not establish it to compete with Him.

You have to give an unhappy marriage to the Lord if you are a Christian.I guess the unbelievers are on their own.

 

[Deborah13]

Oh yes Deborah.It is so easy for girls to go astray and get involved with the wrong man because of a dysfunctional relationship with a father.Some men know how to pick out these women.

I don't think it's just women who get sucked in. Women are more likely to be physically abused then men are, for obvious reasons. But men can easily be violently, verbally abused and used. They can also be so tormented that they can feel like they are the cause of the abuse and feel like they are loosing their mind, just like a woman can.
Edit:
Abusive sociopathic people are very good at recognizing a person they can manipulate.
People who develop scams are like this.

 

[Kathi]

I don't think it's just women who get sucked in. Women are more liking to be physically abused then men are. for obvious reasons. But men can easily be violently, verbally abused and used. They can also be so tormented that they can feel like they are the cause of the abuse and feel like they are loosing the mind, just like a woman can.

Oh no.My X just ended one of the biggest nighmare of a marriage that I have ever heard of.He was not the one who was abusive.I guess the grass is not that green on the other side.