Should women teach in the church?

[jaybo]

God is the head of the man, man is the head of the woman, just as God is the head of Christ. (1 Cor 11:13)
There is indeed a rank.

In your opinion only. Your thinking is contrary what what the Bible says. For the umpteenth time, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." You are just trying to prove that you are superior to a woman, but that is clearly your fleshly ego leading you. Do you actually believe that women are second-class people that should be dominated by men?

Try washing a woman's feet!

 

[jaybo]

God is the head of the man, man is the head of the woman, just as God is the head of Christ. (1 Cor 11:13)
There is indeed a rank.

BTW, if you're going to quote Scripture, do so accurately...

1 Corinthians 11:13, "Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?"

 

[jaybo]

Acts 16:7, "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was."

Clearly Junia was a female apostle who was a) in Christ before Paul and b) was imprisoned.

So much for women being in authority in the body of Christ!

 

[jaybo]

And don't forget Phoebe! "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae." Romans 16:1

 

[jaybo]

How many female apostles are in the Bible?

These four women apostles were Mariamne, Irene, Nino, and Thecla. Relying upon the shorter recensions of texts about women in the early Jesus movements has distorted our modern imagination of the past with respect to the gendered role of women in those movements.

Source: Google

 

[jaybo]

Lutheran churches in Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Germany have had female bishops for decades. The first Anglican female bishop, Barbara Harris, was consecrated in the United States in 1989. For the past nine years the leader of US Anglicans has been a woman, Katharine Jefferts Schori.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So you know authenteo in 1 Time 2:12 (REB) is not the same word for authority used elsewhere in the NT.

Yes, I know that. Anybody with a Strong's Concordance can know that. It is authority that has not been rightfully assumed. And as Paul explains right in the passage in plain words, not rightfully assumed by women for the reason that Adam was formed first, and Eve was the one deceived, not Adam. Frankly, we're sick of the progressive, liberal church ignoring and twisting plain scripture to suit it's 'woke' agenda. But that's a sign of the time we live in just before Christ's return.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

By reason of creation?

Good grief, man! Just read the passage!

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11A womanb must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man;c she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Seize authority"? That clearly shows where your mind is.

Any honest, open person can look up the meaning of 'authority' in the passage and see it means to usurp authority.

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
αὐθεντέω authentéō, ow-then-teh'-o; from a compound of G846 and an obsolete ἕντης héntēs (a worker); to act of oneself, i.e. (figuratively) dominate:—usurp authority over.

G831 - authenteō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G831 - αὐθεντέω authentéō, ow-then-teh'-o; from a compound of and an obsolete ἕντης héntēs (a worker); to act of oneself, i.e. (figuratively) dominate:—usurp authority over.

www.blueletterbible.org

A usurping of authority over men that Paul says women are not permitted to do (it's a verb) because Adam was formed first, and Eve was the one deceived, not Adam.

Why is this so hard for you people, lol?

 

[JLB]

so is there ever a truce on this ? it has got to the point of i am right your wrong

Yes. I see common ground.

I believe also it depends on the woman.

If she is mature and led by the Spirit, and has a good reputation as an honorable woman.

Is the woman an older woman.
Is she married
Is she a bishop’s wife and pastor’s wife.
Does she have a good reputation.

IOW, what is her place? Does she know her place?

Priscilla seemed to be a woman that Paul thought highly of.


But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things— that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed. Titus 2:1-5


We love our women. They are awesome.

However, women have their place… it is the way of order.

Unfortunately our society, our culture here in America has perverted these things and has brought confusion in the family and the Church.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Why is this so hard for you people, lol?

This may be the million dollar question.

I may not agree 100% with what you are saying, but maybe 95%.

However the way we will find common ground in any doctrine is to not ignore what the scriptures say, and to look at all the counsel of God concerning these things.

We know that Paul did not allow women to take a place of authority that was not hers to take. We can’t ignore that or explain it away.

Again, the first thing I would look at is who the woman is.

Is she the Queen of a nation? A mayor a Judge?

Does she honor her husband?

If I was a Pastor and Amy Coney Barrett attended my Church and came to me to ask my permission to give a “word” to the congregation about the dangers of abortion, I would most likely allow her.

That’s just me though.

Many different scenarios and women out there.

What doesn’t change though is women are not to usurp authority over a man.






JLB

 

[JLB]

In your opinion only. Your thinking is contrary what what the Bible says. For the umpteenth time, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." You are just trying to prove that you are superior to a woman, but that is clearly your fleshly ego leading you. Do you actually believe that women are second-class people that should be dominated by men?

Try washing a woman's feet!

Brother, I don’t think he feels women are second class people.

Clearly the scriptures say, man is the head of the woman.

We as men are to love and serve our wIves.

However, the man is the head of the woman.

If we don’t walk in our God given authority to take our rightly place as the head of the woman and the household, we are putting a target on her back for Satan to turn her into a Jezebel.

Just that simple.




JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Unfortunately our society, our culture here in America has perverted these things and has brought confusion in the family and the Church.

you keep posting this /but have yet to back up by scripture. is there anything that can dismiss what paul wrote on qualifications ? i have asked this several times of you. yet no reply . i am not badgering you . just simply asking for scripture i will list this again .. which is all i have to go by. i am going to make bold the words HE and him and man

1 Timothy 3

King James Version

​

3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.


once again the woman have place in the church. they are one of the most valuable assets there is in the church. some jobs men simply do not do very good at. none of this in which the man is the leader by example .
i have seen all kinds of off the wall remarks in all these post.

one other example i would like to share

Acts 6:1-3

King James Version

​

6 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

first off the 12 apostles was men second we see what i have made in bold


your a student of the Bible like me. i dont know but you may have been in it longer than me.

i ask you to counter as to show me different in interpretation using scripture solo scripture only.

yes i know there was mentioned women deaconess and prophetess. but very few.


we all can give our opinion but unless we back it up with scripture. that is all it is

mind if a woman thinks she is to preach. that is her if she is in error she will be the one stand in judgment.
in essence i let God sort it out. . but the scriptures i provided is what i base my belief on solo scripture.

if you can provide scripture showing me wrong. then i will post i agree women can be leaders / and yes a preacher is a leader some just are not pastors

 

[Hopeful]

The topic of discussion is not about sinners.
I'm referring to born again Christians like the Apostle John needing to be forgiven of sin.

Well you mentioned returning to sin, so...
If they have been reborn of God's seed, they cannot commit more sin. (1 John 3:9-10)

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

If one has not been reborn, (and that can be seen if there is more sin), they have an Advocate who will free them from the flesh.
Those whose flesh, with the affections and lusts, has been crucified, (Gal 5:24), don't serve the flesh anymore.

Do you believe the Apostle John was a sinner?

He was before his conversion, but not afterwards.
More sin would have shown he was not converted.
More sin would have shown he had yet to repent of sin, which was Peter's first step to conversion. (Acts 2:38)

 

[JLB]

Well you mentioned returning to sin, so...

I mentioned what Jesus Himself mentioned.

Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

• go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

I don’t see anywhere in this text, where a brother in Christ, a believer, a member of the church of the Lord Jesus Christ, is considered as someone who was “never saved” if he sins against another brother.

• And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

The last option, however, for the brother who sins against another brother, is to inform the church (elders; leadership) to try and convince the brother to repent and be forgiven, if he refuses then he is to be considered as a heathen (unbeliever) and a tax collector.


No where in the New Testament is the idea of a brother in Christ who does sin against another brother, that he was never saved to begin with.


JLB

 

[JLB]

He was before his conversion, but not afterwards.
More sin would have shown he was not converted.
More sin would have shown he had yet to repent of sin, which was Peter's first step to conversion. (Acts 2:38)

We are not discussing people before there conversion.

John who was an elderly man, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, when he wrote 1 John.

John included himself in the narrative he was writing about which was sin, by the pronouns of we, our, us in the following passage.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:8-2:2

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The first thing we see, is if we as a born again Christian, a child of God, say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. And the truth is not in us, which is the opposite of what you teach.
(John includes himself; “we”)

• If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John continues his exhortation which includes himself, by saying if we, as born again Christian’s confess our sins, He will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Do you believe unbelievers, who do not believe in Jesus, (Muslims for example) can ask God to forgive them and cleanse them of their sins, and be forgiven and cleansed, while remaining an unbeliever in Christ?

• And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Jesus is the propitiation for our sins (believers) and also for those who have yet to believe in the Son, and the price He paid for our sins.





JLB

 

[JLB]

is there anything that can dismiss what paul wrote on qualifications ? i have asked this several times of you.

I have plainly stated what I believe on this matter.

We don’t dismiss what Paul wrote on qualifications.

We however may not understand what Paul is referring, depending on the passage and context.

Women are not to teach or have authority over a man.

Maybe I don’t understand your question. What is the post where you asked me your question?

 

[JLB]

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.


once again the woman have place in the church. they are one of the most valuable assets there is in the church. some jobs men simply do not do very good at. none of this in which the man is the leader by example .
i have seen all kinds of off the wall remarks in all these post.

once again the woman have place in the church.

Amen. In the home as well. Wouldn’t you agree?

they are one of the most valuable assets there is in the church. some jobs men simply do not do very good at.

Amen. However, because a man may not be good a something, doesn’t mean the woman assume authority over the man.

none of this in which the man is the leader by example .
i have seen all kinds of off the wall remarks in all these post.

I don’t quite understand this statement.

 

[JLB]

6 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

first off the 12 apostles was men second we see what i have made in bold


your a student of the Bible like me. i dont know but you may have been in it longer than me.

i ask you to counter as to show me different in interpretation using scripture solo scripture only.

yes i know there was mentioned women deaconess and prophetess. but very few.

I can also say of that time and context there were little or no Gentiles in the church.


Does that mean Gentiles have no place in Church leadership?




JLB

 

[JLB]

mind if a woman thinks she is to preach. that is her if she is in error she will be the one stand in judgment.

I agree.

There were/are many great women evangelist’s and eternity will reveal who they were and are.

My opinion and your opinion have no bearing on the matter.


JLB