Shouldn’t we embrace Arminianism?

[GodsGrace]

i was in carm i also joined different one once it lasted like dust in the wind. i spoke my peace left

Good for you.
I was banned.
It wasn't carm.

 

[jerry63935]

I was banned.

i been there done that lol

 

[GodsGrace]

Where is "over there"?

Hmmm. Can't really remember.
I think the owner's name is William.
Not sure. I was only there about a week.
They were very aggressive and not very nice.

 

[jerry63935]

They were very aggressive and not very nice.

they can be you challenge them very close and fire comes . i did a email correspondence with man from first forum.he had parkinson's .he pushed me hard in replies . i had dig deep to counter. he soon gave up trying to convert me over . actually it was respectful

 

[GodsGrace]

they can be you challenge them very close and fire comes . i did a email correspondence with man from first forum.he had parkinson's .he pushed me hard in replies . i had dig deep to counter. he soon gave up trying to convert me over . actually it was respectful

Maybe this is why it gets so nasty, like you said....
they try to convert persons.

I'm not here to convert anyone...only the Holy Spirit can do that.
I'm here to discuss because I enjoy theology.
Exchange some ideas....try to understand the other person.
Of course we each think we're right! That's a given.
No need to get all bent out of shape...we all love Jesus.

 

[jerry63935]

Maybe this is why it gets so nasty, like you said....
they try to convert persons.

I'm not here to convert anyone...only the Holy Spirit can do that.
I'm here to discuss because I enjoy theology.
Exchange some ideas....try to understand the other person.
Of course we each think we're right! That's a given.
No need to get all bent out of shape...we all love Jesus.

Bingo if some not all dont agree ..its time to convert so they do . see personally i do believe in eternal security .but not like the southern baptist do . no body else believes like i do. i like being a loner

 

[GodsGrace]

Bingo if some not all dont agree ..its time to convert so they do . see personally i do believe in eternal security .but not like the southern baptist do . no body else believes like i do. i like being a loner

Well loner....
Maybe someday you could tell me what you believe....
but it'll have to be under the following forum and you have to ask permission to JLB.
The thread should be posted under: SOTERIOLOGY



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1. Soteriology
2. Biblical Words and Terms
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[jerry63935]

SOTERIOLOGY

all ready there

 

[jerry63935]

Maybe someday you could tell me what you believe.

its not that far off lol

 

[GodsGrace]

all ready there

Oh.
Tag me in.
@ plus my name: wondering

 

[Avigdor]

Hmmm. Can't really remember.
I think the owner's name is William.
Not sure. I was only there about a week.
They were very aggressive and not very nice.

Was it a thread in a forum or a seperate forum? I'm interested in what they were saying, especially if it was upsetting. But, not that important I guess. Thanks for responding.

 

[Avigdor]

Right about what?
How about some syntax?
Thanks.

Sorry about that. Thought I had a quote in there. You said Calvinists thought God was a monster. Seemed like a pretty strong accusation. I don't think they would worship and adore a God they thought was a monster.

 

[Avigdor]

Hi Avigdor,,,welcome to the forum. It's nice to have you here.

We all agree that man's entire being became fallen, contaminated.
Including his will?
Let's think for a moment.
Adam and Eve started out with libertarian Free Will.
Calvinism certainly claims that man lost his free will.
Calvinism claims that God predetermines man's EVERY DECISION 24/7.
If you don't believe this is correct,,,then, honestly, you need to study Calvinism some more.

Now, you may say I'm trying to state what you believe....but this excuse can no longer be accepted by me or others that are not reformed in belief.
Please check up on this. If you can't, I'll be happy to post paragraphs from Calvin's Institutes, but I don't understand why I have to prove what YOU believe.

By the time of Cain and Abel, man had lost free will according to you and so COULD NOT or WOULD NOT choose God.

Please explain why Abel chose God and pleased God if he was UNABLE to choose God..., as you state. Is the O.T. incorrect?

How are we enslaved to sin?
Because we PRESENT OURSELVES to the one we will be enslaved to.
Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Please note that Paul states that we present OURSELVES to the one we wish to obey.



The above statement has a conflict.
First you state that God does NOT choose randomly for NO reason.
This means that God has a reason to choose us.
This means that His choice is conditional.

At the end you state that our election is NOT conditioned on anything about us.
This means God chooses UNCONDITIONALLY.

This is the OPPOSITE of your first statement.
Which is it?

I'll reply when you clarify your statement.
(I believe God chooses us conditionally).




The N.T. states that Jesus died for everyone that wishes to make efficacious use of His sacrifice.
1 John 2:2
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Of couse this doctrine becomes null if one believes salvation is available to all men, as most Christians do believe.

It also implies that Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient to save all mankind...
thus minimizing it.



I'm having a problem discussing with you because I'm not sure you understand Calvinism.
What do you mean there is no forcing?
What is compatible free will?




The above would require the absence of libertarian free will.
Jesus will not lose any of those the Father gave Him if they remain in Him and keep abiding in Him.

I, myself, can choose to walk away from God.
Jesus said that if we do not abide in Him,,,we will be thrown away like a dead branch.

John 15:5-6
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

[/QUOTE]
This comentary on my comments is so long, or it would be way to involved (not to mention useless and unnecessary) to try to clarify myself, but I am positive that I understand correctly what Calvinisim teaches and you obviously do not. Nothing wrong with that, just stating a fact.
So I will just say a couple of things. Not to change your mind, it is yours, and I have no desire to tamper with it or manipulate it. I only want to show you where you are misunderstanding me and Calvinism. Adam and Eve had absolute free will. They made a very bad choice that now infects all of mankind, both all in everyone, and all our being, including our will. The will does not do anything on its own. We will to do one thing over another according to internal or external pressures. If it's raining, for example, we may decide not to take a walk when really we would like to take a walk. I'm sure you know this but we often overlook things when bias puts pressure on our will.

The will that God gave to us as part of our creation still exists, Calvinisim nowhere says it was taken away. They merely say it fell like all the rest of our parts. The Bible says all of mans ways are continually wicked. We are bent that way now. The will was free in Adam and Eve, now it is enslaved and needs to be regenerated, reborn. Something only God can do. We cannot give birth to ourselves. That is the Calvinist view.
I said regarding unconditional election that the conditions for God choosing us are in Him. Not in us. And that is what the TULIP means by it. It is not conditional upon anything we have done or said, not conditional on our goodness or badness, our race or nationality or religion. Not our hair color or where we live or how rich or poor we are. Not based on what we will or will not do. He, God, has a reason and we can't lnow what it is but it is none of the things, with etc. added, listed above.
Have you ever gently coaxed a puppy or kitten to come to you, and because of your gentleness it came, and you took it in your arms and loved it, fed it, gave it a warm place to sleep beside you, cared for it gently and sweetly? Would you call that forcing?

 

[Michellay]

Michelina,

My answer to your OP is that I consider the Bible teaches Reformed/Classical Arminianism as articulated in The Works of James Arminius. I'm a 'leaky' Reformed Arminian as I don't accept infant baptism.

Oz

Gotcha. I did some more research on it. Thank you.

 

[Michellay]

Michelina,

You have run into a person who uses emotional bluff to try to intimidate you. The person did that with lingo such as 'false teacher', 'false gospel', you're 'showing the fruit of a child of Satan'.

Run away as quickly as possible from that intimidation. It will not edify and will cause you to ruminate on what the person said.

The person on YouTube has violated the fundamentals of Phil 4:8 (NIV): 'Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable – if anything is excellent or praiseworthy – think about such things'.

Blessings from Down Under,
Oz

You’re right. I seem to get tested by these types of people quite often. Thank you for your encouraging response.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,,,,
Just an aside....
Infants were baptized in the early Christian church but not for salvation purposes.
It was to allow them to have blessings from God and to be a part of the community.

It was not until Augustine of Hippo in the 5th century that infants were baptized for salvation purposes because of his teachings, which the church at that time accepted.

Unfortunately.

And which the reformation changed back to its original intent (for those churches that are Protestant that DO baptize infants).

wondering,

I find infants were baptised according to the writings of the early church fathers. However, I find no support for such a position in the NT.

Oz

 

[Barnaby]

Hi Michelina,

Haven't time to read all the comments here, but like the Apostle Paul I would say:

"For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."
1 Corinthians 2:2 (NIV)

Blessings to You.....Barnaby

 

[JLB]

If you believe what Jesus did for us, and who He is, in agreement with what the Bible says about Him, then you are saved. You won't go to hell. And I don't know of any Christian theology that teaches differently. Could you maybe give me specifics? The way I see it, we are all destined to hell until we believe in the Jesus of the Bible.

Amen.

Jesus saves.


Once we are in Christ, Jesus admonishes is to remain in Him.


“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:5-6


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[JLB]

Hmmm. Can't really remember.
I think the owner's name is William.
Not sure. I was only there about a week.
They were very aggressive and not very nice.

Rebecca is Reba.

She banned me for double spacing.




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Was it a thread in a forum or a seperate forum? I'm interested in what they were saying, especially if it was upsetting. But, not that important I guess. Thanks for responding.

It was a different site...a totally different forum.
The owner is Reformed and most of the members are reformed.
I joined because I like to understand how others could believe this belief system but there was no hope of that there.

So, I like to discuss that here.
I've also discovered that there are different types of calvinists...which doesn't make discussion any easier. I suppose it's like some Christians believe in eternal security and some do not...except it's more complicated for calvinism.

And some get upset that we call it calvinism...that's how it's become to be known. No use fighting about it. I get called an Arminian --- I don't even know what he taught...so I don't waste too many words trying to convince others I'm NOT an Arminian since I don't even know what that is.

They were saying all the usual things....
God sends some to hell to show His glory....
Total Depravity was big.
Compatibilist free will was big.