Some Won't Get Saved

[JLB]

that passage is unknown to you?

It's unknown because it doesnt exist, which is why you gave no scripture.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

It seems Chocolate Roadrunner is to the desperate point of simply cutting and pasting from Hyper-Calvinist websites. That "14 ways to lose your salvation" is simply ridiculous - I don't play such games. Time for IGNORE button.

Thank God.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

It's unknown because it doesnt exist, which is why you gave no scripture.

I believe you. All these years and you still don't know it exists.
And then you presume to accuse me of not bringing to your attention what is in scripture you do not know.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

If a person couldn't lose salvation then there's no point in God giving us the Bible. Simply save the elect and that's it.

How would the chosen of God otherwise know they're the Elect of God?
And why would God refer to his elect in his own word?

 

[Edward]

We still have to obey after we get saved. Being born again is not the ending but the beginning. Then we are are to seek God. Seek His face. Seek Him through His Word. Seek His presence...abide in Him. The Holy Spirit can not do the continued work inside of you unless you are in His presence.

It is free gift. And it ALL God's doing and not ours, however, we must cooperate and put ourselves into His presence...Here I am Lord...and abide in that place. Some posts seem asif to make it sound that we don't have to obey because that would make a labour or a works based salvation blah blah blah. Which is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Look, We were given a new spirit. Spiritual is not carnal and is not usually observed. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. But remember that at least for now, we still have our walk to walk out. This flesh body that we are essentially on house arrest inside of is the walk, It is the works of the flesh.

There's nothing spiritual about our flesh and our carnal mind, but it's where we make our decisions at. But you can't make into an invalidation of salvation to do the works of obeying God and His Commandments. That's just our behavior. Our works. But that in no way means you can continue in sin, lying, adultery, drunkenness, drug addiction and all that. We're told to seek Him and seek Him until we find Him. And we are NOT to lean upon our own understanding but to be led by the spirit. Understand?

Our body is our walk and our works. Our spirit is our reality and truths and sustenance and life.
As soon as Jesus was Baptized, the first thing that happened was he was led into the desert to be tempted 40 days.
So here you are, saved, baptized on house arrest in this flesh body and have a new spirit within you. Welcome home, time to be tested every day. So will you walk in the path that God has for you? Or will you make your own decisions and there by turn your back to God?

 

[JLB]

I believe you. All these years and you still don't know it exists.
And then you presume to accuse me of not bringing to your attention what is in scripture you do not know.

And still no scripture to back your claim.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

And still no scripture to back your claim.

It's in God's word , the new testament. And you don't know it's there. It is the most basic truism in the Gospel letters of Paul.

 

[Episcopius]

Some posts seem as if to make it sound that we don't have to obey because that would make a labour or a works based salvation blah blah blah. Which is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Some Hyper-Calvinists have commented on the verse "Behold, I stand at the door and knock" and insist that we ourselves do not open the door, but that Jesus just knocks and comes in. Opening the door to His knock would be a "work" on our behalf.

 

[for_his_glory]

I avoid GotQuestions at all costs. I've found so much error on that site. The idea that God has chosen people to be saved before the foundation of the world is a Reformation doctrine. It is not supported by Scripture. The passages that are typically sited to support the doctrine, when understood in context, actually don't. God has chosen Israel.

I don't use Got Questions very often as it is very Reformed

I avoid GotQuestions at all costs. I've found so much error on that site. The idea that God has chosen people to be saved before the foundation of the world is a Reformation doctrine. It is not supported by Scripture. The passages that are typically sited to support the doctrine, when understood in context, actually don't. God has chosen Israel.

Thank you Butch for pointing that out. I know Got Questions is very Reformed and steeped in Calvinistic doctrines that come against the doctrines of Christ and
in my post #43 I should have added my understanding of this statement below.

The doctrine of election according to scripture is that God chooses, determines, elects and predestines who will be saved. The fact that believers are elect is undisputable.

I liked the scriptures that were given, but the Reformed has taken them out of context to prove their point that all are already predestined and saved before hearing the Gospel preached to them. I was more interested in the scriptures and forgot to add my understanding to the above statement so to clarify and dispute the doctrines of Calvinism this is my understanding of that statement and I should have posted it with the rest of that post. My bad!!!

God does choose and determines those who are His own as only he alone knows our heart in who is good or evil. God has predestined the plan of His salvation through Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world in who will be saved by His free gift of grace through faith to all who will believe.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

The chosen of God are those who he saves.
As God tells us, we are saved by grace through faith that are from him, grace and faith. They're not of ourselves.

Yes, the chosen of God are those who He will save by His free gift of grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8. And, where does our faith come from, the doctrines of the 5000 different religions in the world church, or by the word of God as in the doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught. The Spirit of God does not teach in all religions that claim to be Christian as many have a form of godliness, but deny it's power, 2 Timothy 3:5-7

Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

Btw, you are aware that Gotquestions.org are 4 point Calvinists?

What is Arminianism, and is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org

What is Arminianism, and is it biblical? How is Calvinism different from Arminianism?

www.gotquestions.org

"Four-point Calvinism (the official position of Got Questions Ministries) finds the other four points of Arminianism to be unbiblical, to varying degrees. Romans 3:10-18 strongly argues for total depravity....."

We will not discuss "Four-point Calvinism" per the false doctrines of Calvinism that come against the true doctrines of Christ. You may express your point of views and understanding, but you/all will need to use scripture in order for fair discussions.

 

[Edward]

Some Hyper-Calvinists have commented on the verse "Behold, I stand at the door and knock" and insist that we ourselves do not open the door, but that Jesus just knocks and comes in. Opening the door to His knock would be a "work" on our behalf.

Well I'm not saying that Jesus doesn't knock, just that we do.

Matthew 7:7-8
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.../

So clearly there is a cooperation going on. Whether Jesus knocks and if any man hear His knock and open, then He will come in and sup with him, or, whoever knocks it will be opened to Him...are both cooperation behaviors, or works if you will.
...and it has to happen. We either cooperate and obey and are Blessed & Rewarded for it, or we do no works by not knocking, and block our blessings in our life. This is not confusing. Pretty basic.

 

[Episcopius]

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

Indeed.

There seems to be a movement going around among the Calvinistas that people somehow get zapped and saved first - then subsequently believe.

Totally backwards.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ephesians 1:11 in Him, in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of the One working all things according to the counsel of His will.

Please notice this says we are predestined according to His purpose. God can also use the evil of this world in order to show who is the "Great I AM" in all His sovereignty. Everything has a purpose whether it is good or evil on this earth as God will use what He wants according to His will to draw others unto Him.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word translated "evil" is from a Hebrew word kelalah that means adversary, affliction, calamity, distress and misery. This is what God has created and puts on those who He has cursed for their rebellion against Him so they know "I AM" in all sovereignty, Deuteronomy 27:11-26.

Exodus Chapter 7-11 is one of the greatest witness of the "Great I AM" and what God brought forth in His affliction, calamity, distress and misery on Pharaoh and the Egyptians.

God gave Pharaoh and the Egyptians a chance to repent and turn back to Him, but they rejected God.

 

[Episcopius]

So clearly there is a cooperation going on.

Exactly. A SYNERGY.

How Synergy got to be demonized by Calvinists is sort of beyond comprehension.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

Got Questions are 4 point Calvinists.

God tells us he wrote the names of his Elect in his Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation,creation,of this world.

“The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Proverbs 16:4

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

Please notice this says we are predestined according to His purpose. God can also use the evil of this world in order to show who is the "Great I AM" in all His sovereignty. Everything has a purpose whether it is good or evil on this earth as God will use what He wants according to His will to draw others unto Him.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word translated "evil" is from a Hebrew word kelalah that means adversary, affliction, calamity, distress and misery. This is what God has created and puts on those who He has cursed for their rebellion against Him so they know "I AM" in all sovereignty, Deuteronomy 27:11-26.

Exodus Chapter 7-11 is one of the greatest witness of the "Great I AM" and what God brought forth in His affliction, calamity, distress and misery on Pharaoh and the Egyptians.

God gave Pharaoh and the Egyptians a chance to repent and turn back to Him, but they rejected God.

Where did God do that for the Egyptians? Book,chapter, verse(d) please.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

We will not discuss "Four-point Calvinism" per the false doctrines of Calvinism that come against the true doctrines of Christ. You may express your point of views and understanding, but you/all will need to use scripture in order for fair discussions.

I made that point about Gotquestions.org being 4 point Calvinists, as they state on their site, as an FYI because of GQ.org being used by some to sustain their side in this debate.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

We still have to obey after we get saved. Being born again is not the ending but the beginning. Then we are are to seek God. Seek His face. Seek Him through His Word. Seek His presence...abide in Him. The Holy Spirit can not do the continued work inside of you unless you are in His presence.

It is free gift. And it ALL God's doing and not ours, however, we must cooperate and put ourselves into His presence...Here I am Lord...and abide in that place. Some posts seem asif to make it sound that we don't have to obey because that would make a labour or a works based salvation blah blah blah. Which is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Look, We were given a new spirit. Spiritual is not carnal and is not usually observed. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. But remember that at least for now, we still have our walk to walk out. This flesh body that we are essentially on house arrest inside of is the walk, It is the works of the flesh.

There's nothing spiritual about our flesh and our carnal mind, but it's where we make our decisions at. But you can't make into an invalidation of salvation to do the works of obeying God and His Commandments. That's just our behavior. Our works. But that in no way means you can continue in sin, lying, adultery, drunkenness, drug addiction and all that. We're told to seek Him and seek Him until we find Him. And we are NOT to lean upon our own understanding but to be led by the spirit. Understand?

Our body is our walk and our works. Our spirit is our reality and truths and sustenance and life.
As soon as Jesus was Baptized, the first thing that happened was he was led into the desert to be tempted 40 days.
So here you are, saved, baptized on house arrest in this flesh body and have a new spirit within you. Welcome home, time to be tested every day. So will you walk in the path that God has for you? Or will you make your own decisions and there by turn your back to God?

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

 

[Chocolate Roadrunner]

Exactly. A SYNERGY.

How Synergy got to be demonized by Calvinists is sort of beyond comprehension.

Not incomprehensible at all. The demonization arrived in this world when pride filled people in the flesh began to teach God needs human help to honor his predestined plan of salvation for his elect.
He elected, predetermined their salvation,died to deal the irrevocable promise, but can't accomplish his will without their help.
Synergistic Soteriology = those ones help God to save them and keep his word.