Speaking in tongues and the Holy Spirit

[RandyK]

Maybe I wasn't very good at bringing together what I was trying to say correctly, but I Am in perfect agreement.

Great stuff. Sure would have a lot of fun fellowshipping with you. Very great and respectful conversation. Compared to other forums.

Actually, I haven't done so well in this conversation. I can't seem to remain in sync with the Lord's kindness often enough. Please forgive me when I get off track. I'm trying!

Yes, nothing better than fellowship with those of like spirit. Thank you--that means a lot!

 

[RandyK]

Your response might have seemed a bit sharp, but I don't believe it was meant to be rude. Often, our strong passion for absolute truth can lead to responses that come across as blunt. I've been taking steps to pause and reflect on God's love and His guidance before replying. This helps me approach discussions with a more thoughtful and gracious perspective.

I've probably spent 25 years on these kinds of forums, beginning on an unmoderated forum that was part Christian and part Jewish. Then I got into Christian forums exclusively, although my wish is to reach those who have a less than full experience with something better.

Along the way I've faced all kinds of rudeness and slanders, which I've learned to deal with, except that I pick up bad habits myself. Trying to shed this obvious lack of love has not come easy for me, particularly on bad days. Today was a little rough.

But I don't wish to separate myself from those who are at times rude, because these are the ones who I wish to reach. Furthermore, I would have to separate from myself, as well! ;)

 

[RandyK]

In a hypothetical yet conceivable situation, imagine an international megachurch with a congregation representing over 50 countries. During an altar call, hundreds of individuals are praying aloud in tongues, each speaking in their personal prayer language rather than delivering a message intended for public interpretation. Remarkably, bystanders in the congregation, who come from diverse linguistic backgrounds, hear these prayers in their own native languages. Group Tongues. During the endtime revival this could become a natural reality.

The specific gift of tongues, as described in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, operates differently from the personal experience of speaking in tongues that occurs when believers receive the Holy Spirit. While speaking in tongues is a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, 10:46, 19:6), the public exercise of tongues as a spiritual gift used in quiet worship settings is distinct and not given to every believer ("Do all speak in Tongues?") (1 Corinthians 14:5, 13). This public manifestation requires interpretation otherwise "let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." (1 Corinthians 14:28) and serves the purpose of edifying the church collectively.

From a scriptural standpoint, it is true that the distribution of spiritual gifts is according to God's will. 1 Corinthians 12:11 states, "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." This underscores the sovereignty of God in bestowing gifts upon believers according to His purpose and plan.

However, it's also important to recognize that the Pentecostal emphasis on seeking and desiring spiritual gifts, including tongues, is rooted in Paul's exhortation in 1 Corinthians 14:1, where he encourages believers to "follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy." The pursuit of spiritual gifts is presented as a positive and encouraged practice, intended to build up the body of Christ and to draw believers closer to God.

It's not merely a matter of rejecting or accepting a gift; it's also about aligning one's heart with God's will, being open to His workings, and earnestly desiring to be used by Him in whatever capacity He chooses. The Biblical perspective emphasizes that while God is the giver of gifts, the believer's openness and desire to be filled with the Spirit play a role in experiencing the fullness of what God has to offer.

In light of this, the Pentecostal theology doesn't contradict Scripture but rather emphasizes a dynamic relationship with the Holy Spirit, where believers are encouraged to seek, ask, and be receptive to the gifts God is willing to bestow. It's a balance between recognizing God's sovereign choice and the believer's response to His call.

Let me clarify this: While interpretation of tongues is indeed a higher gift within the framework of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 14:5), it is important to recognize that the gift of tongues itself serves as the foundation for interpretation. If believers ceased seeking the gift of tongues, there would be no content to interpret, which would limit the function of the gift of interpretation. Both gifts are interdependent, with tongues providing the substance that interpretation elucidates for the edification of the church. Therefore, both gifts play crucial roles in the operation of the Spirit within the body of Christ.

If a true seeker of God wants everything God has available to them, would they not be encouraged through the Word to seek these gifts?

Fair enough. The most "excellent way" in discussing these gifts is the way of "love"--1 Cor 13. If we keep God's love central, then we will pursue all He wants us to have, and use these gifts to serve others.

I've been in Pentecostal churches or groups since 1971. I don't share the exact same theology, and the leadership knows I have to follow my conscience, wrong or right. I've always been welcomed.

I've always enjoyed the mutual emphasis on the Holy Spirit and on the manifestation of supernatural gifts. Most of all I just love God's presence, as we all do I'm sure.

Thanks for an interesting discussionl--better than most I've had on the subject.

 

[My Rock]

Fair enough. The most "excellent way" in discussing these gifts is the way of "love"--1 Cor 13. If we keep God's love central, then we will pursue all He wants us to have, and use these gifts to serve others.

I've been in Pentecostal churches or groups since 1971. I don't share the exact same theology, and the leadership knows I have to follow my conscience, wrong or right. I've always been welcomed.

I've always enjoyed the mutual emphasis on the Holy Spirit and on the manifestation of supernatural gifts. Most of all I just love God's presence, as we all do I'm sure.

Thanks for an interesting discussionl--better than most I've had on the subject.

Very kind words.

 

[electedbyHim]

If you need to skip to 5:39

If you need to skip to 8:15

Watch this especially listening from 3:39

What language is that?

Are there any unbelieving Jews in the crowd?

1 Corinthinans 14:22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign not to unbelievers but to those who believe

1 Corinthians 14:34 The women are to keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

I try hard not to be negative about those who think they have the sign gifts.

I have lived amongst these people for many years and went to several different denominational churches that had the supposed dign gifts. It always is a "look at me" atitude with the people. I even peceive that in the above videos.

I have to admit I jumped around in the videos, it was very uncomfortable watching. When I was attending the different churches that did these things, I never wanted to be part of it. It always left a very negative "feeling" with me. Unclean if you will.

I have said this to others and I was told, I am not spiritual, do not have the holy spirit to perceive these things or just plain out not saved.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[hawkman]

The specific gift of tongues, as described in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, operates differently from the personal experience of speaking in tongues that occurs when believers receive the Holy Spirit. While speaking in tongues is a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, 10:46, 19:6), the public exercise of tongues as a spiritual gift used in quiet worship settings is distinct and not given to every believer ("Do all speak in Tongues?") (1 Corinthians 14:5, 13). This public manifestation requires interpretation otherwise "let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." (1 Corinthians 14:28) and serves the purpose of edifying the church collectively.

When you pray in tongues is it by the utterance of the Holy Spirit ?

When a message in tongues is given out for a congregation is it by the utterance of the Holy Spirit ?

 

[Tenchi]

While it's true that speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift, it is not necessarily vital and life-giving because God doesn't decide to use it in everyone. For example, there is no record of Jesus having the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and Jesus already confirmed that he got his life from the Father (John 5:26) so Jesus didn't have life until it was given to him by the Father, not life from speaking in tongues.

Except in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, the matter of tongues-speaking gets no mention beyond the book of Acts. And even in Acts, this "gift" is not uniformly evident among believers at their conversion, as in Acts 2. There is, for example, no mention of tongues-speaking in the account of the Ethiopian eunuch's conversion in Acts 8:26-40, or in the instance of the Philippian jailer who, along with his whole house, is converted (Acts 16:31-34), or even in the conversion of the three thousand in Acts 2:37-42. So, then, tongues-speaking as a uniform sign of genuine conversion is not biblical, which is why it is never prescribed as such in Scripture. Description does not, after all, equal prescription.

Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment he was baptized by John the Baptist (Mark 9:1-12) to his final moments on the cross of Calvary. Though he was, never once does he speak in tongues. So, you are correct that Jesus demonstrates that such a "gift" is far from vital to walking well with God.

The misunderstanding that the spiritual gifts are to be eagerly sought out, rather than an entitlement, seems to account for their apparent absence in most churches and, as a result, have led many to become spiritual cessationists.

Well, in light of what I pointed out above concerning tongues-speaking, and in light of the fact that the Holy Spirit assigns gifts as he wills, the absence of tongues-speaking appears to have little to do with the spiritually-healthy functioning of a community of believers, or individual believers. Instead, the NT describes the work of the Spirit within Christians commonly as follows:

The Spirit convicts (John 16:8; Revelation 2-3).
The Spirit illuminates (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16).
The Spirit strengthens (Romans 8:13; Philippians 2:13; 4:13, Ephesians 3:16; 6:10, etc.)
The Spirit comforts (2 Corinthians 1:3-4).
The Spirit transforms (Galatians 5:22-23; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Romans 8:29).

In these things, the Spirit "bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God" (Romans 8:16). He also imparts to the truly born-again person a love of the brethren (1 John 3:14), a hunger for the word of God (Jeremiah 15:16), and a desire for holiness (Ephesians 5:9; James 3:17-18).

I have found over fifty years as a child of God that those who are most keen to experience the more "showy" "gifts of the Spirit" - tongues, healings, being "slain in the Spirit," "toking the Spirit," etc - are the least spiritual, having little to no experience of the life and work of the Spirit described from the NT above. This is because the more sensual (i.e. fleshly) a person's pursuit of an experience of God is, the less spiritual it is (Galatians 5:17; Romans 8:5-8; Galatians 6:7-8; Romans 7:18, etc.).

 

[My Rock]

When you pray in tongues is it by the utterance of the Holy Spirit ?

When a message in tongues is given out for a congregation is it by the utterance of the Holy Spirit ?

Yes to both. What exactly is the point you are making?

 

[hawkman]

Yes to both. What exactly is the point you are making?

The Gift of speaking in tongues no matter the audience is the same Gift . If you pray in tongues or if it a message in tongues to a congregation , it is the same Gift called speaking in tongues . The Holy Spirit will take the utterance of the believer and speak words from the Holy Spirit , the Holy Spirit knows the situation and if there is an audience or not and will speak accordingly .

The specific gift of tongues, as described in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, operates differently from the personal experience of speaking in tongues that occurs when believers receive the Holy Spirit.

The only difference is who the audience is that hears the utterance in tongues . Speaking in Tongues is one gift of the Holy Spirit . For the believer there is no difference when the Holy Spirit takes the utterance only the audience changes .

Do you understand what I am saying ?

 

[Rookie]

I have a question and I hope and pray somebody can answer it.

One, why is it that 70% of Christians can supposedly speak in tongues, but less than 2% of Christians use all the other gifts combined? It's like everyone uses the gift that can't be verified if it's real or not, but since all the other gifts like healings or prophecy can be verified, no one does those. And the very few that do take on the endeavor of other gifts almost always have some fraud related to them with healings, or the prophets are always vague.

Secondly, assuming that everyone who seems to speak in tongues can actually speak in tongues, why do they never, I MEAN NEVER, have an interpreter. Which Paul commands without exception. I even asked certain tongue speakers about this and they'll admit that they have to have an interpreter, but then they just waltz about their day and continue to speak without an interpreter.

I'm not even going to mention those who I know who can supposedly speak in tongues, but as soon as church is over they speak in a whole different set of unholy tongues (foul language), or are in unrepentant lifestyles of sin.

So how does that reconcile?

 

[My Rock]

Except in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, the matter of tongues-speaking gets no mention beyond the book of Acts.

By the time the other epistles were written, the practice and understanding of spiritual gifts, including tongues, were already well-established within the early Christian communities. The foundational events recorded in the book of Acts, such as the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2) and the subsequent occurrences of speaking in tongues as a sign of receiving the Spirit (Acts 10:46; 19:6), laid a clear precedent for this gift's role in the church. These events, coupled with Paul's detailed instructions in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, provided the believers with a robust theological and practical framework for understanding and practicing tongues. Given this established understanding, the authors of the later epistles seen no need to reiterate what had already been firmly grounded in the church's life and practice. Instead, they focused on addressing other pressing theological issues and practical concerns relevant to the recipients of their letters. The silence on tongues in these later writings does not imply a diminishing importance but rather reflects that tongues were already integrated into the spiritual life of the church, with their proper use and significance being well understood. The New Testament, therefore, does not need to repeatedly mention tongues, as the early church had already received sufficient instruction and experience in this gift, allowing the epistle writers to address other aspects of Christian doctrine and living. And here are some instances of Tongues mentioned outside of Acts and Corinthians:

Early Church Figures and Historical References:

Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD), "Wherefore also those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils... Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole... It is not possible to name the number of the gifts which the Church, [scattered] throughout the whole world, has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ..."
Against Heresies, Book 2, Chapter 32, Section 4.

Novatian (c. 200–258 AD), "This is He who places prophets in the Church, instructs teachers, directs tongues, gives powers and healings, does wonderful works, offers discrimination of spirits, affords powers of government, suggests counsels, and orders and arranges whatever other gifts there are of charismata..."
Treatise Concerning the Trinity, Chapter 29.

Chrysostom (c. 347–407 AD), While noting the decline of tongues, Chrysostom acknowledged its importance in the early church: "This whole place is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such as then used to occur but now no longer take place."
Homilies on 1 Corinthians, Homily 29.

Early Modern Christian Figures and Movements:

John Wesley (1703–1791), "They were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Nor is the work of God to be confined to the apostles alone; but in every place where the Lord shall raise up true witnesses of His Spirit, the gifts will be imparted, to the praise and glory of God."
The Journal of the Rev. John Wesley, 1739.

Edward Irving (1792–1834), "If it is asked why the gifts of the Spirit have so long ceased in the Church, I ask in return, How is it that the spirit of prayer has so long ceased? How is it that the spirit of union and brotherly love has so long ceased? These things go together: prayer, love, the presence of God, the gifts of the Spirit."
The Collected Writings of Edward Irving.

The Catholic Apostolic Church sought the restoration of charismatic gifts, including tongues. Members of this movement often prayed for and expected the manifestation of tongues as part of their worship experience.

The Holiness Movement (19th century), Preceding Pentecostalism, the Holiness Movement included groups and individuals seeking a deeper experience with God, with reports of people experiencing speaking in tongues as part of their pursuit of sanctification and spiritual empowerment.

The Quakers (17th century and beyond), Early Quakers, known for their emphasis on direct, personal experience with the Holy Spirit, had accounts of ecstatic speech and other charismatic phenomena, which some have interpreted as similar to the Pentecostal experience of tongues.

Modern Pentecostal and Charismatic Figures and Movements:

Charles Fox Parham (1873–1929), "The Lord will give the outpouring of His Spirit as a special sign of His coming, and I believe speaking in tongues will be the first sign when the Holy Ghost is received."
The Life of Charles F. Parham: Founder of the Apostolic Faith Movement, by Sarah E. Parham.

William J. Seymour (1870–1922), "When the Holy Ghost fell on me, I began to speak in tongues. I received a greater blessing than I ever received in my life."
The Life and Ministry of William J. Seymour, by Larry Martin.

David K. Bernard (Superintendent of the UPCI), "The Bible shows that the initial, outward, physical sign of receiving the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues."
The New Birth, by David K. Bernard, p. 161.

The Assemblies of God, "The baptism in the Holy Spirit is accompanied by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance."
Assemblies of God Statement of Fundamental Truths.

Smith Wigglesworth (1859–1947), "When you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, you will speak in tongues, and that will be the evidence of the baptism."
Smith Wigglesworth on Spiritual Gifts, by Smith Wigglesworth.

Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment he was baptized by John the Baptist

The statement "Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment he was baptized by John the Baptist" is incorrect because Scripture indicates that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was filled with the Spirit long before His baptism. In Luke 1:35, the angel Gabriel tells Mary, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." This passage demonstrates that Jesus's very conception was a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit, implying His life was marked by the presence of the Spirit from the beginning. Furthermore, Luke 2:40 states, "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." This verse indicates that even as a child, Jesus was already strong in spirit and full of wisdom, suggesting the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in His life. The baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:16-17 does mark a significant event, where the Holy Spirit descended upon Him "like a dove" and a voice from heaven declared Him as God's beloved Son. However, this event is more about the public affirmation of His ministry and divine identity rather than the initial filling of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the idea that Jesus was only filled with the Holy Spirit at His baptism contradicts the broader biblical testimony of His life and divine nature.

Though he was, never once does he speak in tongues. So, you are correct that Jesus demonstrates that such a "gift" is far from vital to walking well with God.

Jesus, as the source of all spiritual gifts and the one who baptizes believers with the Holy Spirit (John 1:33), does not need to receive from Himself what He already inherently possesses. it would be nonsensical for Jesus to bestow upon Himself a gift like tongues, as He is the ultimate source of all spiritual power and gifts, operating in complete harmony with the will of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

the gift of tongues, along with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, was a promise to be fulfilled after His earthly ministry. John 7:39, it is explained that "the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." This indicates that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which includes the manifestation of tongues, was reserved for a specific time—after Jesus's ascension. Therefore, while Jesus did not speak in tongues during His earthly ministry, it is because the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the associated gifts were divinely appointed to be given after His work on earth was completed.

 

[hawkman]

One, why is it that 70% of Christians can supposedly speak in tongues, but less than 2% of Christians use all the other gifts combined?

Interesting numbers you have there , where did they come from ? Link ?

 

[My Rock]

The Gift of speaking in tongues no matter the audience is the same Gift . If you pray in tongues or if it a message in tongues to a congregation , it is the same Gift called speaking in tongues . The Holy Spirit will take the utterance of the believer and speak words from the Holy Spirit , the Holy Spirit knows the situation and if there is an audience or not and will speak accordingly .


The only difference is who the audience is that hears the utterance in tongues . Speaking in Tongues is one gift of the Holy Spirit . For the believer there is no difference when the Holy Spirit takes the utterance only the audience changes .

Do you understand what I am saying ?

Yes I do. "Speaking in tongues" encompasses various expressions of the same spiritual gift, manifested in different contexts and settings. Whether one is singing in tongues, giving a message in tongues during a church service, interceding in tongues for others, or using tongues as a personal prayer language, these are not separate gifts but rather different ways in which the single gift of tongues is utilized. The Bible affirms this diversity of expression within the same gift, as Paul discusses in 1 Corinthians 12-14. He emphasizes that while there are different operations of the Spirit, it is the same Spirit working through all. The various uses of tongues serve different purposes, whether it be edification of the church when interpreted, personal communion with God in prayer, or deep spiritual intercession. This versatility within the gift of tongues showcases the Holy Spirit's dynamic work in the believer’s life, allowing for both public ministry and private devotion, all flowing from the same source. Thus, these different expressions of tongues are not separate gifts but different applications of the one gift given by the Holy Spirit. In other words, when I sing in tongues, it may be a different language than when I pray silently in tongues. I know someone who has both the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation. When they pray in tongues privately, it is often in a different language than when they give a message in tongues intended to be interpreted. What is beautiful about the gift, I think, is that while some may find it insignificant, I find it very awe-inspiring. In Spanish, many words require you to trill your r's, which I am incapable of doing. I tried doing it a lot in Spanish and never succeeded. But when God takes over, on the few occasions when I spoke in a language that requires trilling r's, I was able to do it perfectly.

 

[Rookie]

Interesting numbers you have there , where did they come from ? Link ?

Before I tell you where I got them, can you provide an answer?

 

[My Rock]

One, why is it that 70% of Christians can supposedly speak in tongues, but less than 2% of Christians use all the other gifts combined? It's like everyone uses the gift that can't be verified if it's real or not, but since all the other gifts like healings or prophecy can be verified, no one does those. And the very few that do take on the endeavor of other gifts almost always have some fraud related to them with healings, or the prophets are always vague.

The disparity between the prevalence of speaking in tongues and the use of other spiritual gifts, such as healings or prophecy, can be understood through the lens of Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis. In the early church, the gift of tongues was a sign of the Holy Spirit’s presence and was often manifested in ways that were immediately observable, as seen in Acts 2. However, spiritual gifts, including healings and prophecy, require a deeper level of discernment and alignment with God's will, which can make them more challenging to verify. The practice of these gifts also demands a greater degree of spiritual maturity and integrity. The misuse or fraudulent activity associated with some healings or prophetic ministries reflects a broader issue of accountability and authenticity within the church, which must be continually nurtured through adherence to biblical principles and the pursuit of genuine spiritual growth. The apparent disparity does not negate the legitimacy of these gifts but highlights the need for a balanced and accountable practice of all spiritual gifts, aligning with the scriptural teaching on their purpose and use.

Secondly, assuming that everyone who seems to speak in tongues can actually speak in tongues, why do they never, I MEAN NEVER, have an interpreter. Which Paul commands without exception. I even asked certain tongue speakers about this and they'll admit that they have to have an interpreter, but then they just waltz about their day and continue to speak without an interpreter.

The issue of tongues being spoken without interpretation, despite Paul's clear instructions in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28, reflects a significant aspect of how spiritual gifts should be managed within the church. According to Paul, speaking in tongues during quiet times of congregational worship (excludes: song service, altar call and prayer meetings) should always be accompanied by interpretation to edify the church (1 Corinthians 14:5). The absence of an interpreter undermines the purpose of tongues as a gift meant for building up the body of Christ. This issue indicates a possible lack of understanding or disregard for the proper order and purpose of spiritual gifts as outlined in Scripture. In the Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis Perspective, this highlights the importance of aligning our practice with biblical teachings and ensuring that all manifestations of the Spirit contribute to the church's edification and unity. Failure to adhere to these guidelines can lead to misuse and confusion, which the apostle Paul addresses with strong pastoral guidance.

I'm not even going to mention those who I know who can supposedly speak in tongues, but as soon as church is over they speak in a whole different set of unholy tongues (foul language), or are in unrepentant lifestyles of sin.

The discrepancy between speaking in tongues and the presence of unrepentant sin or foul language in the lives of some believers challenges the authenticity and integrity of their spiritual experiences. According to Scripture, the evidence of the Holy Spirit’s work in a believer’s life should manifest not only through spiritual gifts but also through the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). If someone demonstrates a consistent pattern of unrepentant sin or foul language, it suggests a disconnect between their spiritual claims and their actual spiritual condition. This highlights the need for a holistic approach to spiritual maturity, where the gifts of the Spirit are evidenced by a transformed character and a life aligned with God’s Word. The Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis Perspective underscores that spiritual gifts, including tongues, must be accompanied by a genuine relationship with God and a lifestyle that reflects His holiness and righteousness. Thus, reconciling these issues requires a return to a biblically grounded practice of spiritual gifts, ensuring they are exercised in harmony with a life of repentance and spiritual integrity.

 

[Rookie]

The disparity between the prevalence of speaking in tongues and the use of other spiritual gifts, such as healings or prophecy, can be understood through the lens of Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis. In the early church, the gift of tongues was a sign of the Holy Spirit’s presence and was often manifested in ways that were immediately observable, as seen in Acts 2. However, spiritual gifts, including healings and prophecy, require a deeper level of discernment and alignment with God's will, which can make them more challenging to verify. The practice of these gifts also demands a greater degree of spiritual maturity and integrity. The misuse or fraudulent activity associated with some healings or prophetic ministries reflects a broader issue of accountability and authenticity within the church, which must be continually nurtured through adherence to biblical principles and the pursuit of genuine spiritual growth. The apparent disparity does not negate the legitimacy of these gifts but highlights the need for a balanced and accountable practice of all spiritual gifts, aligning with the scriptural teaching on their purpose and use.

The issue of tongues being spoken without interpretation, despite Paul's clear instructions in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28, reflects a significant aspect of how spiritual gifts should be managed within the church. According to Paul, speaking in tongues during quiet times of congregational worship (excludes: song service, altar call and prayer meetings) should always be accompanied by interpretation to edify the church (1 Corinthians 14:5). The absence of an interpreter undermines the purpose of tongues as a gift meant for building up the body of Christ. This issue indicates a possible lack of understanding or disregard for the proper order and purpose of spiritual gifts as outlined in Scripture. In the Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis Perspective, this highlights the importance of aligning our practice with biblical teachings and ensuring that all manifestations of the Spirit contribute to the church's edification and unity. Failure to adhere to these guidelines can lead to misuse and confusion, which the apostle Paul addresses with strong pastoral guidance.

The discrepancy between speaking in tongues and the presence of unrepentant sin or foul language in the lives of some believers challenges the authenticity and integrity of their spiritual experiences. According to Scripture, the evidence of the Holy Spirit’s work in a believer’s life should manifest not only through spiritual gifts but also through the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). If someone demonstrates a consistent pattern of unrepentant sin or foul language, it suggests a disconnect between their spiritual claims and their actual spiritual condition. This highlights the need for a holistic approach to spiritual maturity, where the gifts of the Spirit are evidenced by a transformed character and a life aligned with God’s Word. The Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis Perspective underscores that spiritual gifts, including tongues, must be accompanied by a genuine relationship with God and a lifestyle that reflects His holiness and righteousness. Thus, reconciling these issues requires a return to a biblically grounded practice of spiritual gifts, ensuring they are exercised in harmony with a life of repentance and spiritual integrity.

Why do I feel like this came from ChatGPT or Meta AI?

And is the Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis based on Scripture because it more seems like eisegesis.

 

[Tenchi]

By the time the other epistles were written, the practice and understanding of spiritual gifts, including tongues, were already well-established within the early Christian communities. The foundational events recorded in the book of Acts, such as the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2) and the subsequent occurrences of speaking in tongues as a sign of receiving the Spirit (Acts 10:46; 19:6), laid a clear precedent for this gift's role in the church.

No. Description doesn't equal prescription. This is doubly the case since tongues-speaking did not accompany every recorded instance of conversion to the faith in Acts. And triply so, in light of the fact that nowhere in the NT is tongues-speaking ever taught as a necessary, to-be-expected sign of spiritual regeneration.

These events, coupled with Paul's detailed instructions in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, provided the believers with a robust theological and practical framework for understanding and practicing tongues.

No, far from it. For the reasons I've already pointed out.

Given this established understanding, the authors of the later epistles seen no need to reiterate what had already been firmly grounded in the church's life and practice.

This is sheer quess-work. It is far more likely, it seems to me, in the near-complete absence of any discussion about tongues-speaking in the various letters of the NT (when many other issues were repeatedy addressed), that tongues-speaking just wasn't central to the life and work of the Early Church. This evident even in Acts, as I pointed out, the three thousand saved at the end of Acts 2 having no tongue-speaking accompanying their conversion.

The silence on tongues in these later writings does not imply a diminishing importance but rather reflects that tongues were already integrated into the spiritual life of the church, with their proper use and significance being well understood.

No, in light of the great deal of repeated correction and instruction contained in the various NT epistles about almost every facet of Church life, the single instance where tongues-speaking gets any attention suggest, not a generally settled understanding of the matter, but its marginal place in Christian living.

Early Church Figures and Historical References:

Irenaeus (c. 130–202 AD), "Wherefore also those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils... Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole... It is not possible to name the number of the gifts which the Church, [scattered] throughout the whole world, has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ..."
Against Heresies, Book 2, Chapter 32, Section 4.

Novatian (c. 200–258 AD), "This is He who places prophets in the Church, instructs teachers, directs tongues, gives powers and healings, does wonderful works, offers discrimination of spirits, affords powers of government, suggests counsels, and orders and arranges whatever other gifts there are of charismata..."
Treatise Concerning the Trinity, Chapter 29.

Chrysostom (c. 347–407 AD), While noting the decline of tongues, Chrysostom acknowledged its importance in the early church: "This whole place is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such as then used to occur but now no longer take place."
Homilies on 1 Corinthians, Homily 29.

Early Modern Christian Figures and Movements:

John Wesley (1703–1791), "They were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Nor is the work of God to be confined to the apostles alone; but in every place where the Lord shall raise up true witnesses of His Spirit, the gifts will be imparted, to the praise and glory of God."
The Journal of the Rev. John Wesley, 1739.

Edward Irving (1792–1834), "If it is asked why the gifts of the Spirit have so long ceased in the Church, I ask in return, How is it that the spirit of prayer has so long ceased? How is it that the spirit of union and brotherly love has so long ceased? These things go together: prayer, love, the presence of God, the gifts of the Spirit."
The Collected Writings of Edward Irving.

The Catholic Apostolic Church sought the restoration of charismatic gifts, including tongues. Members of this movement often prayed for and expected the manifestation of tongues as part of their worship experience.

The Holiness Movement (19th century), Preceding Pentecostalism, the Holiness Movement included groups and individuals seeking a deeper experience with God, with reports of people experiencing speaking in tongues as part of their pursuit of sanctification and spiritual empowerment.

The Quakers (17th century and beyond), Early Quakers, known for their emphasis on direct, personal experience with the Holy Spirit, had accounts of ecstatic speech and other charismatic phenomena, which some have interpreted as similar to the Pentecostal experience of tongues.

Modern Pentecostal and Charismatic Figures and Movements:

Charles Fox Parham (1873–1929), "The Lord will give the outpouring of His Spirit as a special sign of His coming, and I believe speaking in tongues will be the first sign when the Holy Ghost is received."
The Life of Charles F. Parham: Founder of the Apostolic Faith Movement, by Sarah E. Parham.

William J. Seymour (1870–1922), "When the Holy Ghost fell on me, I began to speak in tongues. I received a greater blessing than I ever received in my life."
The Life and Ministry of William J. Seymour, by Larry Martin.

David K. Bernard (Superintendent of the UPCI), "The Bible shows that the initial, outward, physical sign of receiving the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues."
The New Birth, by David K. Bernard, p. 161.

The Assemblies of God, "The baptism in the Holy Spirit is accompanied by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance."
Assemblies of God Statement of Fundamental Truths.

Smith Wigglesworth (1859–1947), "When you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, you will speak in tongues, and that will be the evidence of the baptism."
Smith Wigglesworth on Spiritual Gifts, by Smith Wigglesworth.

None of this has any relevancy to what the Bible says. I don't take my cue concerning spiritual living from any other source but divinely-inspired Scripture. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

The statement "Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment he was baptized by John the Baptist" is incorrect because Scripture indicates that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was filled with the Spirit long before His baptism. In Luke 1:35, the angel Gabriel tells Mary, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." This passage demonstrates that Jesus's very conception was a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit, implying His life was marked by the presence of the Spirit from the beginning.

Jesus's conception being way of the Spirit does not mean he was therefore necessarily indwelt constantly by the Holy Spirit all of his life. This is a glaring non sequitur. All that Christ's divine conception permits us to say is that he was so-conceived.

Furthermore, Luke 2:40 states, "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." This verse indicates that even as a child, Jesus was already strong in spirit and full of wisdom, suggesting the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in His life.

Again, not necessarily. There have been others about whom, in Scripture, similar things have been said who did not have a supernatural conception. Job, for instance:

Job 1:1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.

Or Cornelius:

Acts 10:1-2
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

The baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:16-17 does mark a significant event, where the Holy Spirit descended upon Him "like a dove" and a voice from heaven declared Him as God's beloved Son. However, this event is more about the public affirmation of His ministry and divine identity rather than the initial filling of the Holy Spirit.

Well, I disagree. And nothing you've put forward defeats my understanding of the event.

Therefore, the idea that Jesus was only filled with the Holy Spirit at His baptism contradicts the broader biblical testimony of His life and divine nature.

Not at all. See above.

Jesus, as the source of all spiritual gifts and the one who baptizes believers with the Holy Spirit (John 1:33), does not need to receive from Himself what He already inherently possesses. it would be nonsensical for Jesus to bestow upon Himself a gift like tongues, as He is the ultimate source of all spiritual power and gifts, operating in complete harmony with the will of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

The point wasn't about whether or not Jesus is the Ultimate Source of spiritual gifts but what it means that he never did any tongues-speaking though he was filled with the Holy Spirit. If tongues-speaking was a vital feature of Christian living, it stands to reason this would be exemplified in the life of our Great Example, Jesus Christ.

the gift of tongues, along with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, was a promise to be fulfilled after His earthly ministry. John 7:39, it is explained that "the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." This indicates that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which includes the manifestation of tongues, was reserved for a specific time—after Jesus's ascension. Therefore, while Jesus did not speak in tongues during His earthly ministry, it is because the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the associated gifts were divinely appointed to be given after His work on earth was completed.

This is all a rather convenient ad hoc extrapolation, not the plain statement - or description - of the NT.

 

[hawkman]

Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment he was baptized by John the Baptist (Mark 9:1-12) to his final moments on the cross of Calvary. Though he was, never once does he speak in tongues. So, you are correct that Jesus demonstrates that such a "gift" is far from vital to walking well with God.

What need would Jesus have to speak in tongues ? ! ? ! NONE ! The "demonstration" you speak of is just the opposite !

Jesus spoke the words of God by the Spirit without limit !



34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.



The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are vital to our walk with God, and speaking in tongues is one of those gifts .

 

[My Rock]

Why do I feel like this came from ChatGPT or Meta AI?

That's odd to say, NO!

And is the Oneness Practical Symbolic Exegesis based on Scripture because it more seems like eisegesis

I know its a play on words but that is how I approach the Bible is from all angles. Practically, Symbolically, and Exegesis of topics in question and even word study when necessary.