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The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

rogerg said:
uh-oh think you just entered into the "lie" zone with me. Their contention is that one has to be obedient TO BE saved. I disagreed because I believe Christ is the Savior. They seem to think that belief will send me to hell because it's a lie. If I understand your position correctly, guess you just became guilty of it too
Click to expand...
Who is "their"?
Who is "they"?

Are you separating yourself from other Christians?
And this after telling me you aren't calvinist in your belief system?
IF you're not....
Then please explain why you separate yourself from other Christians?
 
wondering said:
Where does verse 4 say God chose anyone?
It say God chose us IN CHRIST that we should be HOLY and WITHOUT BLAME.

This states not WHO was chosen....
but HOW the chosen would behave and be judged.
Click to expand...
I included this verse in my post

[Eph 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
 
wondering said:
Who is "their"?
Who is "they"?

Are you separating yourself from other Christians?
And this after telling me you aren't calvinist in your belief system?
IF you're not....
Then please explain why you separate yourself from other Christians?
Click to expand...
Huh? Don't know what you mean - JLB (I think, or maybe Jaybo) said I was propagating a lie. That what you mean? I was joking with Fastfredy, that by his reply, it sounded like he agrees with me regarding salvation (but could be wrong) but if so, then he had entered into the same lie zone I had been put into
 
rogerg said:
yes sorry 2 Timothy 3:16 -17. My mistake
Click to expand...
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

The above is all true.


I also like 2 Timothy 3:15
15and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Once again, as throughout the N.T., we see the order of salvation (ordo salutis)...

Our wisdom .... our ABILITY TO THINK because we are not DEAD.....
leads to salvation .... Apparently we have had the correct thoughts and thinking process...
THROUGH FAITH which is IN JESUS.... saved by grace...THROUGH FAITH. (eph 2:8).

We are saved BY FAITH
by our thinking process which allows us to believe in Christ.
 
rogerg said:
I included this verse in my post

[Eph 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Click to expand...
OK
But I don't understand where that sentence states that God chose these saints...
We were discussing being chosen by God and predestination...
 
wondering said:
Thanks for clarifying.

Our obedience does not saves us unless we have faith.
Faith is what saves us...faith in Christ.

We believe-----> We have faith----> We obey ---->

We obey God when we believe His Word.
When persons speak of obedience, they usually mean the commandments,,,
not the obedience to believe the gospel.

It's of no value to obey the commandments without faith.
Click to expand...

We have faith when we hear the Gospel.

We are saved when we believe and therefore obey the Gospel.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the gospel command to repent. Repent means turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord. Repenting is how we go from being in the kingdom of Satan, to being in the kingdom of God.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is the action of obedience that saves;
the obedience of faith.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.





JLB
 
rogerg said:
Huh? Don't know what you mean - JLB (I think, or maybe Jaybo) said I was propagating a lie. That what you mean? I was joking with Fastfredy, that by his reply, it sounded like he agrees with me regarding salvation (but could be wrong) but if so, then he had entered into the same lie zone I had been put into
Click to expand...
Here's what you said in post no. 479:

rogerg said:
uh-oh think you just entered into the "lie" zone with me. Their contention is that one has to be obedient TO BE saved. I disagreed because I believe Christ is the Savior. They seem to think that belief will send me to hell because it's a lie. If I understand your position correctly, guess you just became guilty of it too


You use the words THEIR and THEY to separate you and fred from the rest of Christians.
It's not US and THEM
WE and THEY

We're all Christians, right?
So why are you separating yourself from the rest of Christianity?
Is it because you realize you have a totally different belief system?
 
wondering said:
OK
But I don't understand where that sentence states that God chose these saints...
We were discussing being chosen by God and predestination...
Click to expand...
Paul is talking to them and said:
[Eph 1:1 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

the "the saints which are at Ephesus" and "faithful in Christ Jesus" (V1)identifies who the "chosen us" are in V4
 
JLB said:
We have faith when we hear the Gospel.

We are saved when we believe and therefore obey the Gospel.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the gospel command to repent. Repent means turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord. Repenting is how we go from being in the kingdom of Satan, to being in the kingdom of God.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is the action of obedience that saves;
the obedience of faith.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.





JLB
Click to expand...
Agreed, of course.
 
wondering said:
Here's what you said in post no. 479:

rogerg said:
uh-oh think you just entered into the "lie" zone with me. Their contention is that one has to be obedient TO BE saved. I disagreed because I believe Christ is the Savior. They seem to think that belief will send me to hell because it's a lie. If I understand your position correctly, guess you just became guilty of it too


You use the words THEIR and THEY to separate you and fred from the rest of Christians.
It's not US and THEM
WE and THEY

We're all Christians, right?
So why are you separating yourself from the rest of Christianity?
Is it because you realize you have a totally different belief system?
Click to expand...
look at post 483
 
rogerg said:
Paul is talking to them and said:
[Eph 1:1 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

the "the saints which are at Ephesus" and "faithful in Christ Jesus" (V1)identifies who the "chosen us" are in V4
Click to expand...
Oh, I see.

This is what I thought....
My reply to you was that in those verses it does not say that God chose anyone.

Please see post no. 477 again.

Please consider my reply to you.
Those verses do not state that God chose anyone...
only HOW believers would experience salvation.
 
wondering said:
Here's what you said in post no. 479:

rogerg said:
uh-oh think you just entered into the "lie" zone with me. Their contention is that one has to be obedient TO BE saved. I disagreed because I believe Christ is the Savior. They seem to think that belief will send me to hell because it's a lie. If I understand your position correctly, guess you just became guilty of it too


You use the words THEIR and THEY to separate you and fred from the rest of Christians.
It's not US and THEM
WE and THEY

We're all Christians, right?
So why are you separating yourself from the rest of Christianity?
Is it because you realize you have a totally different belief system?
Click to expand...
I it makes it any clearer, either JLB or Jaybo said I propagated a lie. It was them I was referring to
 
rogerg said:
guess you just became guilty of it too
Click to expand...
Hey, just because they think you may be going to hell is no reason to bring me along ....LOL

You confused them by saying ONLY THE DISOBEDIENT ARE SAVED.

They don't get it. They're trying to save you now. LOL
 
rogerg said:
"chosen us in him" doesn't say he chose anyone? how did you get that conclusion?
Click to expand...
From the beginning God had a plan on how salvation would be achieved.

Salvation would be IN HIM....
In Jesus.

God chose us IN HIM before the foundation of the world.
IOW,,,God would save us according to what Christ did in the atonement...
Those that would be "of Christ" would be saved.
We are saved IN HIM...

The N.T. has many verses re how we abide IN HIM:

John 15:6
1 John 2:24
1 John 3:6
2 John 1:9
Hebrews 12:2
Galatians 2:20

and so many more....

God planned that we who choose Christ will abide IN HIM.
Will be saved IN HIM.
 
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