Do you even understand the point of his posts?
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The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Do you even understand the point of his posts?
More on Redemption !
In no stretch of the imagination are those going to hell the objects of Christ redeeming death and blood, for hell is like going into a prison 1 Pet 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;.
The Redemption that Christ has effected by His Blood for all that He gave Himself a ransom for, He delivered them from the guilt and penalty [legally] of their sins which is called remission of sins Matt 26:28 which is also their Justification before God, for how can anyone whom God cannot lay a charge on not be Justified Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
This is also set forth in this scripture Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
This automatically concludes that all for whom Christ shed His blood are Justified before God based upon the redemption that is in His blood..
Not a charge of law breaking or its curse will come against them because of Christ redemption Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us [Believers/Chosen] from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
He also delivers by His redemption from the power of sin, that those Christ died for can serve Him Lk 1:74-75
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
He redeems us by His blood from a vain manner of life, socially and religiously 1 Pet 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
And finally there is an aspect of redemption that is about to come and be applied to the blood redeemed, to be redeemed from this place of sin, yes that's a deliverance Dan 12:1
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
This will be associated with our glorification, Jesus says of it in Lk 21:28
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption deliverance draweth nigh.
In no stretch of the imagination are those going to hell the objects of Christ redeeming death and blood, for hell is like going into a prison 1 Pet 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;.
The Redemption that Christ has effected by His Blood for all that He gave Himself a ransom for, He delivered them from the guilt and penalty [legally] of their sins which is called remission of sins Matt 26:28 which is also their Justification before God, for how can anyone whom God cannot lay a charge on not be Justified Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
This is also set forth in this scripture Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
This automatically concludes that all for whom Christ shed His blood are Justified before God based upon the redemption that is in His blood..
Not a charge of law breaking or its curse will come against them because of Christ redemption Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us [Believers/Chosen] from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
He also delivers by His redemption from the power of sin, that those Christ died for can serve Him Lk 1:74-75
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
He redeems us by His blood from a vain manner of life, socially and religiously 1 Pet 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
And finally there is an aspect of redemption that is about to come and be applied to the blood redeemed, to be redeemed from this place of sin, yes that's a deliverance Dan 12:1
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
This will be associated with our glorification, Jesus says of it in Lk 21:28
28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption deliverance draweth nigh.
The point he is making is Christ redeems those from Satan because they are “His sheep”, not because they believe the Gospel.
He believes the redeeming and thus born again experience is a Sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, in which people are regenerated, born again, apart from them hearing and believing the Gospel, then later on in their life they have the ability to believe the Gospel when they hear it.
Is this what you believe also?
JLB
Yes, that is most definitely my understanding too. In other words, Christ is the Savior, we aren't - same, same as what I've said all along. It may happen to them later on, or simultaneous to it. For those who become born again, gaining faith is a progressive process, not a binary process.
[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Those who Peter was speaking to and teaching, were demonstrating they had already been justified by the faith of Christ - hence their burgeoning faith. And by so doing, were they also demonstrating their sins had been remitted.
It is of no value whatsoever to repent of something, or to be baptized into something, if it didn't come from one's spiritual heart and a genuine belief, especially if its object is a counterfeit gospel.
The gift of the Spirit is in His fruit. Those things Included in His fruit follows. Notice that faith is one of them, so therefore, it would be impossible to gain true faith without first having be indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
[Gal 5:22 & 23 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Act 5:31 KJV]
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
** Israel = spiritual Israel
[2Ti 2:25 KJV]
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[Gal 5:22 & 23 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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Serving Zion
Member
[ACMP=reminder]
This thread has been cleaned up and some parts have been removed from Public Record.
Please remember the Terms of Service guidelines: "Address the issue, not the person."
[/ACMP]
This thread has been cleaned up and some parts have been removed from Public Record.
Please remember the Terms of Service guidelines: "Address the issue, not the person."
St. Paul said:
[/ACMP]
The death of Christ not only accomplishes and secures unto the elect their objective standing before God such as [ Justified, reconciled] by His blood, but He also secured our personal sanctification or conversion. Jesus said I sanctify myself [speaking of His High Priestly death] that they [ all for whom He died] may be sanctified Jn 17:19
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that [in order that] they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Hence the cross of Christ enables all those He died for to Love and serve Him in newness of Life, beginning in this life and will serve him forever, thus eternal redemption Heb 9:12 !
Lets look at some scriptures that bring this point out ! 2 Cor 5:15
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
The all He died for here, was in order that they should live [spiritually] and henceforth live for Him.. This is also what is meant in Lk 1:71-75
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Now as an effect of Christ Death, for all He died, the power of sin is broken [an enemy] in ones Life, setting free the person into a newness of Life, by the Spirit regenerating them and renewing them Titus 3:5
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that [in order that] they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Hence the cross of Christ enables all those He died for to Love and serve Him in newness of Life, beginning in this life and will serve him forever, thus eternal redemption Heb 9:12 !
Lets look at some scriptures that bring this point out ! 2 Cor 5:15
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
The all He died for here, was in order that they should live [spiritually] and henceforth live for Him.. This is also what is meant in Lk 1:71-75
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Now as an effect of Christ Death, for all He died, the power of sin is broken [an enemy] in ones Life, setting free the person into a newness of Life, by the Spirit regenerating them and renewing them Titus 3:5
What does turning to God in repentance have to do with the works of the law?
Do you somehow equate repentance with the law of Moses; that repenting is equal to trying to earn salvation by keeping the law of Moses?
JLB
Well if you believe people are born again, regenerated, saved before they hear and believe the Gospel, then how does one become born again, if not by hearing and believing the Gospel?
Please use scripture in your answer.
JLB
Serving Zion
Member
[ACMP=announcement]
The following posts have been moved into new threads because they were not addressed as a reply to anyone specifically and they appeared to be standalone Opening Posts.
brightfame52, please remember to include the name of the person you are addressing whenever you reply on a thread, and please make sure to begin a new thread every time you simply want to make a general statement.
The new threads can be found here:
[/ACMP]
The following posts have been moved into new threads because they were not addressed as a reply to anyone specifically and they appeared to be standalone Opening Posts.
brightfame52, please remember to include the name of the person you are addressing whenever you reply on a thread, and please make sure to begin a new thread every time you simply want to make a general statement.
The new threads can be found here:
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christianforums.net
It effects a Life unto Serving God !
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More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration
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christianforums.net
[Tit 3:3-7 KJV]
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
If my reply need clarification, let me know
Please clarify what point it is, you are trying to make.
You posted:
" Well if you believe people are born again, regenerated, saved before they hear and believe the Gospel, then how does one become born again, if not by hearing and believing the Gospel?
Please use scripture in your answer."
Since you asked for Scripture in my answer, that's what's in my reply
This may make it clearer:
[1Pe 1:19-21 KJV]
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
[1Pe 1:23 KJV]
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
** incorruptible seed -- the word of God : Christ
For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:3-7
Where in this verse does it say that we are saved, before we hear the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ?
Just the opposite. Notice verse 4 —
- But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
Jesus Christ is our God and Savior. He appeared in the flesh to bring the Gospel Message of salvation to mankind.
If you didn’t know this read verse 13 of the previous chapter.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13
JLB
Where is verse 22?
- you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23
Again another verse that says we are born again, by obeying the truth, the Gospel truth.
Nothing here that says we are saved before we here the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.
Just the opposite.
- having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
We are born again through the word, the eternal Gospel Message of Jesus Christ.
JLB
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
[1Pe 1:22 KJV] 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Do you see the "through the Spirit" part? Is it by anything that they/we can do? Nope, it is THROUGH the SPIRIT
The verses I provided show it is all by God. You didn't answer my question.
Do you believe Christ (God) is the Savior?