The beginning of the new testament.

[Hopeful 2]

When did the old testament end, before Jesus shed the blood of the new testament ?
On the same day ?
It is written..."And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many." (Mark 14:24)

The collators of bible scriptures call them the new testament, even though lots of its events happened years before Jesus shed His blood.
It is written..."The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." (Luke 16:16)

Isn't there a sort of donut hole between John and Jesus' shed blood ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The woman (Eve) represents the church. You just quoted Paul...who was quoting Adam...about Eve.
Here is the figure again,,

OK, your "represent" is actually a metaphor.

This mystery is great - but I am actually speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Eph.5:32 NET

And you and I (and every other believer in Jesus on earth) the church...is no different from Eve.

Maybe, before I turned from sin. (Repented of sin)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Right and that was the question that I first brought up. 'What' could it be referring to. Now you say that it could mean several things. Ok, fine. Write some of them out here in a response to me and we'll discuss it. That's exactly what my opening on this discussion was.

Several things would fit the "it" of Jesus' last words.
His suffering for mankind.
The Word's life in the skin and bones of man.
The OT/OC.
The Law.
The fulfilment of all the prophesies concerning His death.

Sorry. You're right. It should have read "where did that knowledge 'come from' that he...
Thanks for the correction.

I sometimes think I am a member of the Grammar Police.
Don't let it get to you.

Back to the OP, when do you think the OC ended ?
Some maintain that it was at the baptism of John the Baptist.
They use "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." (Matt 11:13), to validate their POV.
I say it was at the shedding of the blood of Christ.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

OK, your "represent" is actually a metaphor.

A metaphor of all born of the Spirit,

My.....children 1Jn.2:1 KJV

I'm not Johns' child.

Maybe, before I turned from sin. (Repented of sin)

Eve repented also,

she shall be saved in child bearing, if they continue in faith.....1Tim.2:15 KJV

Paul doesn't mean women who have lots of children are saved. He means people are saved and become fruitful by abiding in Christ,

I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen.3:16 KJV

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Travail (as in persecution because of the gospel) which accompanies the birth of Gods' children but desiring Christ, submitting to Him through it,

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen.3:16 KJV

Adam would sweat dealing with rocky ground and thorns but good ground also. Compare Gen.3:17-19 with Mt.13:3-9.
He's really speaking of peoples hearts including Adams'.

 

[Hopeful 2]

A metaphor of all born of the Spirit,
My.....children 1Jn.2:1 KJV
I'm not Johns' child.

We have gone too far off topic.

Eve repented also,
she shall be saved in child bearing, if they continue in faith.....1Tim.2:15 KJV
Paul doesn't mean women who have lots of children are saved. He means people are saved and become fruitful by abiding in Christ,
I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen.3:16 KJV

 

[journeymanisnothing]

We have gone too far off topic.

I'm not off tooic. I believe the gospel was given in figures which the NT writes put iin proper perspective. The Bible really shows how Gods' word is unchanging.
I have no education past highschool. I simply disagree with well educated theologians. I believe they went off topic.

 

[miamited]

Several things would fit the "it" of Jesus' last words.
His suffering for mankind.
The Word's life in the skin and bones of man.
The OT/OC.
The Law.
The fulfilment of all the prophesies concerning His death.

I sometimes think I am a member of the Grammar Police.
Don't let it get to you.

Back to the OP, when do you think the OC ended ?
Some maintain that it was at the baptism of John the Baptist.
They use "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." (Matt 11:13), to validate their POV.
I say it was at the shedding of the blood of Christ.

Hey Hopeful 2

Maybe it never has. Israel could still be blessed in their life here upon the earth if they repent and return to God's law in obedience. What do you think? As I said, the old covenant was merely a covenant between God and Israel that if they would obey Him He would bless their lives here upon the earth. He could still be doing that for them, if they are obediently keeping His law. What do you think? The new covenant really has nothing to do with them.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Hopeful 2]

I'm not off tooic. I believe the gospel was given in figures which the NT writes put iin proper perspective. The Bible really shows how Gods' word is unchanging.
I have no education past highschool. I simply disagree with well educated theologians. I believe they went off topic.

The topic is... "when does the OC actually end".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hey Hopeful 2

Maybe it never has. Israel could still be blessed in their life here upon the earth if they repent and return to God's law in obedience. What do you think? As I said, the old covenant was merely a covenant between God and Israel that if they would obey Him He would bless their lives here upon the earth. He could still be doing that for them, if they are obediently keeping His law. What do you think? The new covenant really has nothing to do with them.

God bless,
Ted

Yeah, plenty of Jews are still trying to achieve righteousness without faith.
Some supposed Christians too.
That is the resulting essence of the OC.
Now that a new covenant is in force though, nullifies any OC adherence.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The topic is... "when does the OC actually end".

The OT speaks of Christ, so it doesn't "end" in that sense.
The condemnation of the law ends when people come to faith in our Savior.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The OT speaks of Christ, so it doesn't "end" in that sense.
The condemnation of the law ends when people come to faith in our Savior.

Yeah, titles like OT/NT and OC/NC are sorta "floaters" with regard to who and when it applies.
The NT/NC only apply to the repentant, and the OT/OC will still apply to the unconverted till the end of time.
I feel that the blood shed by Jesus is the demarcation line between O and N.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yeah, titles like OT/NT and OC/NC are sorta "floaters" with regard to who and when it applies.
The NT/NC only apply to the repentant, and the OT/OC will still apply to the unconverted till the end of time.
I feel that the blood shed by Jesus is the demarcation line between O and N.

I see them both as agreements between God and man to live by faith in Him.
The Messiah confirmed the truth of the older covenant when He rose from death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I see them both as agreements between God and man to live by faith in Him.
The Messiah confirmed the truth of the older covenant when He rose from death.

Sure, but in view of the OP, you are going astray a little bit.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Sure, but in view of the OP, you are going astray a little bit.

The NC was made as far back as Abraham,

the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul Gal.3:17 KJV

And before Abraham, Adam and Eve were the first two members of the church

 

[Hopeful 2]

The NC was made as far back as Abraham,

the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul Gal.3:17 KJV

And before Abraham, Adam and Eve were the first two members of the church

It may have been "talked about", but it wasn't initiated or in force until Jesus shed His blood.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

It may have been "talked about", but it wasn't initiated or in force until Jesus shed His blood.

It wasn't simply talked about. It was prophesied by God to our 1st parents and His word is immutable.
The gospel was initiated or in force in Genesis, but confirmed when our King rose from death.

They lived by faith in the promise of Him as all sinners do from the beginning of the world.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It wasn't simply talked about. It was prophesied by God to our 1st parents and His word is immutable.
The gospel was initiated or in force in Genesis, but confirmed when our King rose from death.

I don't know why you see it that way.
If I say I will be cooking supper, (prophesy), does that make you full ?

They lived by faith in the promise of Him as all sinners do from the beginning of the world.

Promises are just promises, until they are fulfilled.

If the NT started in Genesis, then there were two testimonies occurring together, until the end of the OT.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I don't know why you see it that way.
If I say I will be cooking supper, (prophesy), does that make you full ?

Not physically, but the Bible says,

I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. Psa.37:25

but from a humanist view, thousands of innocent people throughout history have appeared forsaken, starving to death.

Promises are just promises, until they are fulfilled.

I would agree in ever case where sinners are making the promises.

If the NT started in Genesis, then there were two testimonies occurring together, until the end of the OT.

Only one covenant, but 2 outcomes depending on the choice. That goes for the gospel under Christ and written law which came later.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Not physically, but the Bible says,

As I said, "promises are just promises until they are fulfilled.
The promise from Gen that you cite as the beginning of the NC wasn't fulfilled until Jesus came along

but from a humanist view, thousands of innocent people throughout history have appeared forsaken, starving to death.

I am not a humanist, and your avatar says you aren't either, so why cite unbelievers-haters of God to back up you POV ?

I would agree in ever case where sinners are making the promises.

It doesn't matter if they are sinners or non-sinners.
Promises are just promises until they re fulfilled.
Prophesies too.

Only one covenant, but 2 outcomes depending on the choice. That goes for the gospel under Christ and written law which came later.

If you are still adhering to the OC, you must be demanding circumcision in order to be saved.
Please validate that need from NT scripture.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

As I said, "promises are just promises until they are fulfilled.
The promise from Gen that you cite as the beginning of the NC wasn't fulfilled until Jesus came along
I am not a humanist, and your avatar says you aren't either, so why cite unbelievers-haters of God to back up you POV ?

I was pointing out that innocent children starve to death every day, so "bread" must mean "the word of the Lord", not deli bread.
Otherwise, atheists are right and the Bible is wrong.

It doesn't matter if they are sinners or non-sinners.
Promises are just promises until they re fulfilled.
Prophesies too.

If you are still adhering to the OC, you must be demanding circumcision in order to be saved.
Please validate that need from NT scripture.

You're not hearing me. I've been saying the law was made to show us our need for mercy and the sacrifice is symbolic of Christ. Therefore sinners who repent under the law are forgiven the same way as the NT, except the Sacrifice lives forever.