The CURSE OF THE LAW

[Mitspa]

Not sure what point is intended? But those who attempt to justify themselves by any part of the OLD testament "written code" are in fact under the curse of the "written code".
Further more those who have been justified by grace through faith and turn back to the written code, have in fact rejected Gods grace and have fallen from grace.

 

[JCitoL]

Not sure what point is intended? But those who attempt to justify themselves by any part of the OLD testament "written code" are in fact under the curse of the "written code".
Further more those who have been justified by grace through faith and turn back to the written code, have in fact rejected Gods grace and have fallen from grace.

from the old testament's writings at least the Ten Commandments are the Holy Law of (the) faith, but the inimical part of the ordinances are not

Colossians 2:14-15 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances(i.e. annulling the human/satanic part of the ordinances in God's covenant/testament) that was against us(i.e. which was prejudicial against the people), which was contrary to us(i.e. which was adverse to us), and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers(i.e. having denounced the unrighteous spiritual/religious systems and powers), he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Blessings

 

[Goinheix]

Some Christian leaders teach the flock to observ and practice some rules of the Law inmersing them in curse, in sin, in a poor spiritual life, a life in the flesh and a powerless pray. And they teach to observ and practice those rules of the Law promising blessings from God and menacing them in case of not practicing.

I take it you mean tithing.

Granted, tithing was given in the old testament.

However, we see giving to support those whom God has raised up to shepherd His people as a New Testament practice.

We also see Abraham tithe as well.

If you are not referring to tithing, then please forgive me.

JLB

I do refer to tithe.
Tithe is only in the OT, in the Law. Practicing and teaching tithe is teaching and practicing the Law with the concecuent curse.
But the curse of the tithe is taugh with false promesses of blesing.
Nobody in the NT teach to tithe, and nobody was tithing.
Not even Abraham practiced the tithe.

 

[childeye]

I believe that the law was meant to showcase sin and the weakness of the flesh so that all stand condemned to death by it. The law is therefore the means through which the vanity which began in Satan will be eliminated. And the cross therefore is the end of the law and the defeat of Satan's works in both heaven and earth. There is a Love that is pure and it does not exist as the prerogative of man. If anyone lusts after his neighbor's wife it is not the law he lacks.

 

[JLB]

Some Christian leaders teach the flock to observ and practice some rules of the Law inmersing them in curse, in sin, in a poor spiritual life, a life in the flesh and a powerless pray. And they teach to observ and practice those rules of the Law promising blessings from God and menacing them in case of not practicing.

I take it you mean tithing.

Granted, tithing was given in the old testament.

However, we see giving to support those whom God has raised up to shepherd His people as a New Testament practice.

We also see Abraham tithe as well.

If you are not referring to tithing, then please forgive me.

JLB

I do refer to tithe.
Tithe is only in the OT, in the Law. Practicing and teaching tithe is teaching and practicing the Law with the concecuent curse.
But the curse of the tithe is taugh with false promesses of blesing.
Nobody in the NT teach to tithe, and nobody was tithing.
Not even Abraham practiced the tithe.

18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; 20 And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he gave him a tithe of all. Genesis 14:18-20

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek!


For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. Hebrews 7:1-4

JLB

 

[Goinheix]

Some Christian leaders teach the flock to observ and practice some rules of the Law inmersing them in curse, in sin, in a poor spiritual life, a life in the flesh and a powerless pray. And they teach to observ and practice those rules of the Law promising blessings from God and menacing them in case of not practicing.

I take it you mean tithing.

Granted, tithing was given in the old testament.

However, we see giving to support those whom God has raised up to shepherd His people as a New Testament practice.

We also see Abraham tithe as well.

If you are not referring to tithing, then please forgive me.

JLB

I do refer to tithe.
Tithe is only in the OT, in the Law. Practicing and teaching tithe is teaching and practicing the Law with the concecuent curse.
But the curse of the tithe is taugh with false promesses of blesing.
Nobody in the NT teach to tithe, and nobody was tithing.
Not even Abraham practiced the tithe.

18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth; 20 And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand." And he gave him a tithe of all. Genesis 14:18-20

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek!


For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils. Hebrews 7:1-4

JLB

Abraham did never practiced tithe. We dont have any evidence (other than personal imagination and supositions) of Abraham practicing tithe in his life. We dont know of any of his ansestors practicing tithe. We dont know of any of his kids (Ismael, Isaac) practicing tithe; neither the grandkids (Esau, Jacob). What we know is of Jacob not practicing tithe and making a promess (never kept) of commence to tithe. And we dont know of any kid of Israel ever tithing.

Abraham did tithe ones in his life. He did tithe of the spoils of war that didnt belong to him and he was not planing to keep.
Abraham tithe by free, with not personal cost.

Abraham tithe as all people of the region and age were tithing. In the ancient world, all nations use to tithe to the King and/or the pagan Priest.
Abraham tithe to the King and Priest of Salem who came to his encouter to get from Abraham his tithe.

 

[Mitspa]

Not sure what point is intended? But those who attempt to justify themselves by any part of the OLD testament "written code" are in fact under the curse of the "written code".
Further more those who have been justified by grace through faith and turn back to the written code, have in fact rejected Gods grace and have fallen from grace.

from the old testament's writings at least the Ten Commandments are the Holy Law of (the) faith, but the inimical part of the ordinances are not

Colossians 2:14-15 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances(i.e. annulling the human/satanic part of the ordinances in God's covenant/testament) that was against us(i.e. which was prejudicial against the people), which was contrary to us(i.e. which was adverse to us), and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers(i.e. having denounced the unrighteous spiritual/religious systems and powers), he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Blessings

No! the law is not in parts its every jot and tittle!
Paul intentionally points to the Ten Commandments as that which we are freed from. Rom 7:7
2 Cor 3:7 and thoughout his epistles he teaches that the 10 commandments are the strength of sin, are that they ARE NOT OF FAITH.
ALL THE LAW!
"ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW"
now ALL MEANS ALL! every jot a tittle, means every jot and tittle!

 

[Mitspa]

Some Christian leaders teach the flock to observ and practice some rules of the Law inmersing them in curse, in sin, in a poor spiritual life, a life in the flesh and a powerless pray. And they teach to observ and practice those rules of the Law promising blessings from God and menacing them in case of not practicing.

I take it you mean tithing.

Granted, tithing was given in the old testament.

However, we see giving to support those whom God has raised up to shepherd His people as a New Testament practice.

We also see Abraham tithe as well.

If you are not referring to tithing, then please forgive me.

JLB

I do refer to tithe.
Tithe is only in the OT, in the Law. Practicing and teaching tithe is teaching and practicing the Law with the concecuent curse.
But the curse of the tithe is taugh with false promesses of blesing.
Nobody in the NT teach to tithe, and nobody was tithing.
Not even Abraham practiced the tithe.

Yes and the warning of 2 Pet 2:14-15
Is for these very people who curse Gods people for their own covetousness.
Which was the error of Balaam.
Num 22:12
Which Paul makes this same point? That God has blessed and those who return to the written code of the law are under the curse.
Also Paul makes the very point that the commandment "thou
shalt not covent" produces the desire to covet.

This is the charge of 2 Peter 2:14
That they are "covetous and cursed children"
And because of this they stray from the "way of righteousness" and are like the swine that after being washed "by the gospel" return to wallow in their sins.

For the strength of sin is the law.

 

[gr8grace]

It is so interesting How religion(satan) has influenced us! That is me included!

Malachi 3:8-10~~8"Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In [U]tithes[/U] and offerings. 9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation [of you]! 10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

It is so simple! 10% TAX for the NATION. the OFFERING is what Paul speaks of in giving.

The nations tax is a tithe. The Nation is a provision of God and we are to TITHE what the nation sets up. We are to OFFER what our heart desires, that is why a penny can be worth more than a million.

 

[Mitspa]

It is so interesting How religion(satan) has influenced us! That is me included!

Malachi 3:8-10~~8"Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In [U]tithes[/U] and offerings. 9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation [of you]! 10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

It is so simple! 10% TAX for the NATION. the OFFERING is what Paul speaks of in giving.

The nations tax is a tithe. The Nation is a provision of God and we are to TITHE what the nation sets up. We are to OFFER what our heart desires, that is why a penny can be worth more than a million.

Not sure of your point g8 one? would you explain a little more of what you are seeing?

 

[gr8grace]

It is so interesting How religion(satan) has influenced us! That is me included!

Malachi 3:8-10~~8"Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In [U]tithes[/U] and offerings. 9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation [of you]! 10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

It is so simple! 10% TAX for the NATION. the OFFERING is what Paul speaks of in giving.

The nations tax is a tithe. The Nation is a provision of God and we are to TITHE what the nation sets up. We are to OFFER what our heart desires, that is why a penny can be worth more than a million.

Not sure of your point g8 one? would you explain a little more of what you are seeing?

Just one aspect of the Law that gets thrown at Christians, that is taught as truth. And In reality Tithing is not and was never part of offering. 10% is Gods number for taxation(tithing) for a nation. But the Offering is 0 to 100% depending on the Heart of an individual.

Tithing is presented to us as the offering in Church and 10% is the God expected amount. And tithing is not and Has nothing to do with the offering. Tithing should not be used in a church, it is the offering in the Church.

Tithing is taxation for the Nation that God has you in.

 

[Goinheix]

The curse of the Law.

Men are not capable of keeping any rule or law. As soon a rule or law is stablished, it will be the breaking of such rule or law.
In the world, the law comes after the fact. First comes the consumption of marihuana, later comes the prohibition of it, and immediately the ilegal consumption.
Centuries ago people traveled the roads. They use to cross with other travelers leaving them on the own right hand. That was for security reasons, both for horse riders and for wagons. But sometimes, for different reasons, some people cross the other way. Eventually it was stablished a rule; a british rule on how cars have to circulate on roads and streets. Immediately next we have infractors of the new law. Any new rule or law create a new infractor or criminal.

That was the porpose of the Moses Law: to show out the human condition.
Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law, will always end in failure.

We have the salvation by grace, outside the Law. But if we insist in keeping the Law, the only result will be sin. That is the curse of the Law: if somebody try to observ it, he will became a sinner.

 

[Mitspa]

It is so interesting How religion(satan) has influenced us! That is me included!

Malachi 3:8-10~~8"Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In [U]tithes[/U] and offerings. 9"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation [of you]! 10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

It is so simple! 10% TAX for the NATION. the OFFERING is what Paul speaks of in giving.

The nations tax is a tithe. The Nation is a provision of God and we are to TITHE what the nation sets up. We are to OFFER what our heart desires, that is why a penny can be worth more than a million.

Not sure of your point g8 one? would you explain a little more of what you are seeing?

Just one aspect of the Law that gets thrown at Christians, that is taught as truth. And In reality Tithing is not and was never part of offering. 10% is Gods number for taxation(tithing) for a nation. But the Offering is 0 to 100% depending on the Heart of an individual.

Tithing is presented to us as the offering in Church and 10% is the God expected amount. And tithing is not and Has nothing to do with the offering. Tithing should not be used in a church, it is the offering in the Church.

Tithing is taxation for the Nation that God has you in.

I think I see your point more clearly now. I have already learned so things on this thread. It sometimes takes me a day or two to put it all together, but I see alot of truth in your post and those of others.
Thanks and God Bless.

 

[childeye]

Well it is biblically impossible to use the written code to judge and also be in the Spirit.

I agree with this. The law is the measure of those things walking the direction of sin, something the Spirit cannot do. And can you answer why is it that the law empowers sin?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), will always end in failure.

We have the salvation by grace, outside the Law. But if we insist in keeping the Law (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), the only result will be sin. That is the curse of the Law: if somebody try to observ it (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), he will became a sinner.

Do you agree with the parentheticals that I have inserted? Do you agree they represent what the problem with 'law keeping' is?

 

[Goinheix]

Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), will always end in failure.

We have the salvation by grace, outside the Law. But if we insist in keeping the Law (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), the only result will be sin. That is the curse of the Law: if somebody try to observ it (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), he will became a sinner.

Do you agree with the parentheticals that I have inserted? Do you agree they represent what the problem with 'law keeping' is?

No. I dont agree at all. The curse of the Law is not in conection with the attempt to get justified.

 

[francisdesales]

That was the porpose of the Moses Law: to show out the human condition.
Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law, will always end in failure..

That's not entirely true. God did not give the Law to 'show out the human condition'. The Law's purpose was to lead people to God, to give God's people the direction to journey if they wanted to please God and fulfill the covenant with Him Who saved them from Egypt.

Nor does God expect perfect compliance - this is not tort law! God gave a sacrificial and repentance system inherit to the Mosaic Law BECAUSE God knew that man would disobey the Law.

Because the Law is neutral and only points the direction to God, it cannot give man the power to obey it.

Saying that the law's purpose is to show forth the human condition is like saying that a speed limit traffic sign's purpose is to show drivers that no one can drive 55 MPH...???

In either case, the law is there to be obeyed and presumes an ABILITY to obey it. But it offers no ability to AID its obedience. Given man's propensity to be selfish and disobey, it is inevitable to occur.

Regards

 

[Goinheix]

That was the porpose of the Moses Law: to show out the human condition.
Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law, will always end in failure..

That's not entirely true. God did not give the Law to 'show out the human condition'. The Law's purpose was to lead people to God, to give God's people the direction to journey if they wanted to please God and fulfill the covenant with Him Who saved them from Egypt.

Nor does God expect perfect compliance - this is not tort law! God gave a sacrificial and repentance system inherit to the Mosaic Law BECAUSE God knew that man would disobey the Law.

Because the Law is neutral and only points the direction to God, it cannot give man the power to obey it.

Saying that the law's purpose is to show forth the human condition is like saying that a speed limit traffic sign's purpose is to show drivers that no one can drive 55 MPH...???

In either case, the law is there to be obeyed and presumes an ABILITY to obey it. But it offers no ability to AID its obedience. Given man's propensity to be selfish and disobey, it is inevitable to occur.

Regards

When I read Romans I dont have that same understanding you have.
I wnoder:
1 - How many of the rules of the Moses Law we have to observ.
2 - How many of the same above we can observ susessfully.

 

[childeye]

That was the porpose of the Moses Law: to show out the human condition.
Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law, will always end in failure..

That's not entirely true. God did not give the Law to 'show out the human condition'. The Law's purpose was to lead people to God, to give God's people the direction to journey if they wanted to please God and fulfill the covenant with Him Who saved them from Egypt.

Nor does God expect perfect compliance - this is not tort law! God gave a sacrificial and repentance system inherit to the Mosaic Law BECAUSE God knew that man would disobey the Law.

Because the Law is neutral and only points the direction to God, it cannot give man the power to obey it.

Saying that the law's purpose is to show forth the human condition is like saying that a speed limit traffic sign's purpose is to show drivers that no one can drive 55 MPH...???

In either case, the law is there to be obeyed and presumes an ABILITY to obey it. But it offers no ability to AID its obedience. Given man's propensity to be selfish and disobey, it is inevitable to occur.

Regards

Pardon my interruption. It just seems to me the hospitable thing to do is point out, that to me, you both have just said the same thing only in two different ways.

 

[francisdesales]

When I read Romans I dont have that same understanding you have.

Fair enough. At least I am not being condemned... ;)

I hope to learn something from your viewpoint.

I wnoder:
1 - How many of the rules of the Moses Law we have to observ.

None, if you mean how many rules the Mosaic Law originated and were bound to the people of the Old Covenant. I am not of the Old Covenant. I am commanded to observe the "TORAH", the Wisdom of God, which preceded the Mosaic Law (and is included in the Mosaic Law - Decalogue) and has been written by God's Spirit in my heart.

2 - How many of the same above we can observ susessfully.

Of the Mosaic Law? One could observe all of them, if their hearts were turned to God, with God's grace and faith from above. Scriptures note a number of such righteous people, such as David, Noah, Abraham, Daniel, Elizabeth, etc...

Of the Law that I am bound to? All of them. In Christ. Certainly not perfectly, but Christ continues to appeal for me, even after I sin again.

Regards