The CURSE OF THE LAW

[francisdesales]

That was the porpose of the Moses Law: to show out the human condition.
Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law, will always end in failure..

That's not entirely true. God did not give the Law to 'show out the human condition'. The Law's purpose was to lead people to God, to give God's people the direction to journey if they wanted to please God and fulfill the covenant with Him Who saved them from Egypt.

Nor does God expect perfect compliance - this is not tort law! God gave a sacrificial and repentance system inherit to the Mosaic Law BECAUSE God knew that man would disobey the Law.

Because the Law is neutral and only points the direction to God, it cannot give man the power to obey it.

Saying that the law's purpose is to show forth the human condition is like saying that a speed limit traffic sign's purpose is to show drivers that no one can drive 55 MPH...???

In either case, the law is there to be obeyed and presumes an ABILITY to obey it. But it offers no ability to AID its obedience. Given man's propensity to be selfish and disobey, it is inevitable to occur.

Regards

Pardon my interruption. It just seems to me the hospitable thing to do is point out, that to me, you both have just said the same thing only in two different ways.

I don't think so, I disagree that the purpose of the Law is to point out human failure. The Law's intent is the opposite, point the way to God. That we don't follow the Law is our human condition, not the fault of the Law. Certainly, the Law points out where we fail, but that is not why God gave us the Law!

Also, I disagree that one cannot keep the Law. Yes, people can keep the Law. Not perfectly, but if the intent of the heart is good, God is pleased, as He has said on countless occasions, such as Psalm 50 and 51. A path is open to those who repent when they fail to uphold the Law.

Perhaps I am missing where we are saying the same thing. Could you explain?

Regards

 

[Goinheix]

I don't think so, I disagree that the purpose of the Law is to point out human failure. The Law's intent is the opposite, point the way to God. That we don't follow the Law is our human condition, not the fault of the Law. Certainly, the Law points out where we fail, but that is not why God gave us the Law!

Also, I disagree that one cannot keep the Law. Yes, people can keep the Law. Not perfectly, but if the intent of the heart is good, God is pleased, as He has said on countless occasions, such as Psalm 50 and 51. A path is open to those who repent when they fail to uphold the Law.

Perhaps I am missing where we are saying the same thing. Could you explain?

Regards

Paul is very clear on that the porpouse of the Law is to show out the condition of men unable to do well.
Paul is also clear that nobody except Jesus can keep the Law.
There is only one way to keep the Law: PERFECTLY.
Either you keep the law perfectly or you fail, does not matter the intent of your heart.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), will always end in failure.

We have the salvation by grace, outside the Law. But if we insist in keeping the Law (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), the only result will be sin. That is the curse of the Law: if somebody try to observ it (for the purpose of trying to be justified by that law), he will became a sinner.

Do you agree with the parentheticals that I have inserted? Do you agree they represent what the problem with 'law keeping' is?

No. I dont agree at all. The curse of the Law is not in conection with the attempt to get justified.

Explain how you think keeping the law can be a curse? I'm keeping the requirements of the law more and more in all the various situations of life. How is wanting to do that, and doing it, a curse to me? Explain.

I suggest that it's how and why you attempt to satisfy the requirements of the law that determines if you end up not keeping the law, and therefore, are under the curse of the law.

 

[Goinheix]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.â€f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.â€g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.â€

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Either you keep the law perfectly or you fail, does not matter the intent of your heart.

The first part is only true in regard to how to be justified. And the intent of the heart, not perfection, is what matters in regard to sanctification, and the growing up and maturing into the stature of Christ.

Justification (by what you do) requires perfect obedience. Sanctification does not. Sanctification requires a determination to push forward and stay under the blood and make progress in the obedience required of God's people.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Rely? Rely on what? Using the context of the passage, what is it that Paul is saying that the works of the law are being relied on to do that results in the curse of the law?

 

[Goinheix]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.â€f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.â€g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.â€

Rely? Rely on what? Using the context of the passage, what is it that Paul is saying that the works of the law are being relied on to do that results in the curse of the law?

What I know is if some christian try to observ the Law, he/she will fall under the curse of the Law, the cross will became useless (for him/her) and will be disconected from Christ.
That is enough to me for staying far away from observing the Law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Rely? Rely on what? Using the context of the passage, what is it that Paul is saying that the works of the law are being relied on to do that results in the curse of the law?

What I know is if some christian try to observ the Law, he/she will fall under the curse of the Law, the cross will became useless (for him/her) and will be disconected from Christ.
That is enough to me for staying far away from observing the Law.

Years ago I was confronted with the overwhelming temptation to leave my wife and kids and take another man's wife (my wife knows all about it). I chose to stick with God and 'not commit adultery'. How did making the choice to do that put me under the curse of the law, rather than the blessing of obedience? It didn't disconnect me from God at all. In fact, quite the opposite. I cherish the ministry of the Spirit and that victory as a time of tremendous contact with God. It will be a special memory of God's grace and goodness and love to me the rest of my days. The Holy Spirit...my coach, my friend, the lover of my soul. Blessed be the Name of the Lord!

 

[Goinheix]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.â€f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.â€g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.â€

Rely? Rely on what? Using the context of the passage, what is it that Paul is saying that the works of the law are being relied on to do that results in the curse of the law?

What I know is if some christian try to observ the Law, he/she will fall under the curse of the Law, the cross will became useless (for him/her) and will be disconected from Christ.
That is enough to me for staying far away from observing the Law.

Years ago I was confronted with the overwhelming temptation to leave my wife and kids and take another man's wife (my wife knows all about it). I chose to stick with God and 'not commit adultery'. How did making the choice to do that put me under the curse of the law, rather than the blessing of obedience? It didn't disconnect me from God at all. In fact, quite the opposite. I cherish the ministry of the Spirit and that victory as a time of tremendous contact with God. It will be a special memory of God's grace and goodness and love to me the rest of my days. The Holy Spirit...my coach, my friend, the lover of my soul. Blessed be the Name of the Lord!

Are you sugesting that Paul is wrong?

 

[childeye]

That was the porpose of the Moses Law: to show out the human condition.
Trying to keep. observ and practice the Law, will always end in failure..

That's not entirely true. God did not give the Law to 'show out the human condition'. The Law's purpose was to lead people to God, to give God's people the direction to journey if they wanted to please God and fulfill the covenant with Him Who saved them from Egypt.

Nor does God expect perfect compliance - this is not tort law! God gave a sacrificial and repentance system inherit to the Mosaic Law BECAUSE God knew that man would disobey the Law.

Because the Law is neutral and only points the direction to God, it cannot give man the power to obey it.

Saying that the law's purpose is to show forth the human condition is like saying that a speed limit traffic sign's purpose is to show drivers that no one can drive 55 MPH...???

In either case, the law is there to be obeyed and presumes an ABILITY to obey it. But it offers no ability to AID its obedience. Given man's propensity to be selfish and disobey, it is inevitable to occur.

Regards

Pardon my interruption. It just seems to me the hospitable thing to do is point out, that to me, you both have just said the same thing only in two different ways.

I don't think so, I disagree that the purpose of the Law is to point out human failure.
Also, I disagree that one cannot keep the Law. Yes, people can keep the Law. Not perfectly, but if the intent of the heart is good, God is pleased, as He has said on countless occasions, such as Psalm 50 and 51. A path is open to those who repent when they fail to uphold the Law.

Perhaps I am missing where we are saying the same thing. Could you explain?

Regards

Respectfully, you indicated some measure of agreement in post #37 where you begin by saying,"That's not entirely true", in referance to Zeleste saying the purpose of the law was to "show out the human condition". Therefore it appears that you acknowledge that the law does reveal shall I say,"weakness in the flesh", while pointing to the things that would please God. And here what comes to mind is Romans 7:14-20.

Now above you say,"The Law's intent is the opposite, point the way to God. That we don't follow the Law is our human condition, not the fault of the Law. Certainly, the Law points out where we fail, but that is not why God gave us the Law!" As I understand it, it is impossible for God to give a law that does testify to righteousness and yet does not testify to unrighteousness. The law given to sinners therefore must by default reveal them as sinners. For we know that sin appeared in man apart from the law even as righteousness now appears in Christ apart from the law even while the law testifies to his righteousness while also testifying to our sin. Hence I see us all debating an issue laced in semantics, and full of opportunity for misunderstanding. In the big picture I believe the reason for the law is to destroy vanity (the works of Satan) through the cross. Hebrews 2:14.

If I may be so bold, to point out some differing perspectives of the phrases "revealing the human condition" and "leading to God". Does God use the law to prove to men that they have a goodness given by God that they fail to use to please God, which shows a lack of love for God? Or...Does God use the law to prove His Spirit is what makes men good? Therefore because of lack of esteem after this manner, He will not give us His righteousness in fullness until we fully admit that? All of this is lost in semantics and is the center of much controversy. I would hope we understand that the law points to Love while Love fulfills the law and I think it will be vain to take it for granted either way.

 

[Ryan]

This will be my first, and hopefully, only post in here. I have now been cursed by the law, and I admit that. It is a truly humbling experience to say this. If you may or may not know, yesterday was the beginning of Passover. It was an instruction given by God to follow every year. Nonetheless, it is part of the Law of Moses. I'll explain how me and family have been cursed as we observed this last night, and today.

1. Start off with the Passover Seder. Spent about 4 hours last night at the Seder with Jews, Gentiles and non-believing guests. Taught about the Seder and how everything pointed to Christ.

2. Burdened with praising and worshipping The Lord and feeling the presence of his Spirit throughout the night.

3. I've been witnessing to a Muslim client of mine, and he came to the Seder with his Jewish co-worker who comes to our congregation. He really enjoyed the message and seeds were planted. I had given him a book written by a former Muslim tht converted to Christianity. It was written in English and Arabic that he understands.

4. This burden of the law, brought people into his Kingdom and there were people who became saved last night.

5. The catering and banquet hall employees were exposed to singing and dancing, and being exposed to the good news of the Gospel. More seeds planted

6. My son found the hidden afikomen last night in a fun, traditional Seder game and earned him 25 bucks. Not bad for 3 minutes work.

7. This morning, as it's a Sabbath, my kids stayed home from school and spent time together as a family. They remarked they like being Jewish cause they get to miss school, and their friends go. Burden.

8. Spent a fun morning going through the house and removing everything leavened in the house. Exodus 12:15. Afterwards I taught my kids the leaven representing sin, and the importance of looking at our lives, and removing the sin from our lives. Hence the term, spring cleaning. What a burden it was teaching my kids this and the redemptive work of Jesus.

9. Spent the remainder of the day driving around listening to Robin Mark and visiting non believing family and explaining Passover to them. Witnessing to family as well is a yoke of bondage.

10. Picked up two of my daughters friends from school as they had to go, and explained Passover to them.

There are more curses I am sure I could point to, but, I would hate to burden you with what The Lord is doing to my family and community.

 

[francisdesales]

I don't think so, I disagree that the purpose of the Law is to point out human failure. The Law's intent is the opposite, point the way to God. That we don't follow the Law is our human condition, not the fault of the Law. Certainly, the Law points out where we fail, but that is not why God gave us the Law!

Also, I disagree that one cannot keep the Law. Yes, people can keep the Law. Not perfectly, but if the intent of the heart is good, God is pleased, as He has said on countless occasions, such as Psalm 50 and 51. A path is open to those who repent when they fail to uphold the Law.

Perhaps I am missing where we are saying the same thing. Could you explain?

Regards

Paul is very clear on that the porpouse of the Law is to show out the condition of men unable to do well.
Paul is also clear that nobody except Jesus can keep the Law.
There is only one way to keep the Law: PERFECTLY.
Either you keep the law perfectly or you fail, does not matter the intent of your heart.

The Law shows the condition of man, but I disagree that God created and gave the Law to man to "show man he is evil". The Law shows how all men fall short of the glory of God. Yes. It is useful for that purpose, but that was not its intent by God. It was meant to be followed and obeyed.

Otherwise, why would God, through Moses, say that the Law is "not too difficult to follow"! Is God misleading Moses and the Jews???

Could you cite where Paul says nobody can keep the Law except Jesus? I have 8 citations, at least, that speak of men/women who DID keep the Law. The Scriptures presumes that many people are just in God's eyes. I think your idea is a misreading of Scriptures.

You don't have to keep the Law perfectly - UNLESS you intend on obligating God. As Romans 4:4 states, it would be a wage, rather than a gift. "God owes me, I have perfectly obeyed the Law."

God grants salvation freely to ANYONE who strives to obey the Law under God's graces. To those who try to earn salvation, or think they have it because of their 'priveleged position' - the Jew - they would have to practice the Law perfectly.

If you think the intent of the heart has no bearing, you haven't been reading the Old Testament. Or I could cite the Sermon on the Mount. Not sure where you got the idea that one's inner intent has no bearing... God speaks of it over and over again in Psalms and the Minor prophets.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.â€f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.â€g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.â€

Ah. "Works of the Law" is the technical term for the Mosaic Law. The Jews boasted of HAVING the Mosaic Law.

The Jews would say:

"See, you stinkin' Gentiles what God has given us? With this, we now can teach the world what is God's Will. We are holy, set apart, God's heritage - because we HAVE the Law. Through the Covenant He made with us, not you, God will save us. So if you want to be saved, you have to join the Covenant people of Moses' days"

This attitude is a reliance on possession of the Mosaic Law brings salvation, or at least a priveleged position during final judgment. It was a key part of Paul's polemics against Judaizers.

Paul says "hold the phone". Gentiles are obeying the law of God while having no clue about the Mosaic Law. They have it written in their hearts and OBEY it. God is not a respecter of persons. God expects obedience, and judgment will come upon the hypocrites who teach one thing but do not do it (be doers of the law, be spiritual Jews). Later, "is God a God of the Jews only?" No - Gentiles can be found pleasing to God without the Mosaic Law! Abraham was justified BEFORE the Mosaic Law came about. In between Romans 2 and 4, we have a devastating litany of evil JEWS not following what they HAD. WHAT GOOD IS IT IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW IT??? Thus, man is justified by faith APART from the Mosaic Law!

Thus, the Judaizers' "reliance on the works of the Law (mosaic law possession) was WORTHLESS when it came down to final judgment. It is based upon what we do on earth - faith filled works of love, based upon the Law written on the heart. No one can please God without faith in Him. Thus, relying on the written Mosaic Code does no good, since God is not a respecter of persons, to include Jews or Christians found guilty of evil deeds by God.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Respectfully, you indicated some measure of agreement in post #37 where you begin by saying,"That's not entirely true", in referance to Zeleste saying the purpose of the law was to "show out the human condition". Therefore it appears that you acknowledge that the law does reveal shall I say,"weakness in the flesh", while pointing to the things that would please God. And here what comes to mind is Romans 7:14-20.

By this, I mean that the result of the Law made sin obvious and that no man could achieve the glory of God without grace from God. In retrospect, it would appear that the Law shows man's condition, the inability to obey it perfectly. It is an effect, not a cause of the creation of the Law, in my opinion. God gave the commandments to Moses and expected them to be obeyed. The Covenant was not based on a sham, but on something men COULD do - with God's aid. "Call upon God"...

Did God purposely trick the Jews by giving them a law that they COULD NOT obey - while telling them it was "not too difficult"??? This is why I cannot imagine God misleading mankind in this way, and that the cause of the Law cannot be convulted with the effect of the Law. God created the Law and commanded the Covenanted people to obey. He gave them the ability to obey, if they only turned to Him. I submit to you a Psalm that in particular speaks of what I am talking about - the Loving God:

Hear, O my people, and I will testify unto thee: O Israel, if thou wilt hearken unto me; There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god. 10I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me. So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways! I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries. The haters of the LORD should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured for ever. 16He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee. Psalm 81:8-16


OH, if only they would follow me. Nothing there about "Oh, they cannot follow me because I made a law that no one could keep"!!! Note, God is not demanding perfect Law following. JUST TURN TO ME! PUT ASIDE FALSE GODS.

Now above you say,"The Law's intent is the opposite, point the way to God. That we don't follow the Law is our human condition, not the fault of the Law. Certainly, the Law points out where we fail, but that is not why God gave us the Law!" As I understand it, it is impossible for God to give a law that does testify to righteousness and yet does not testify to unrighteousness.

Agreed. But remember, God set up a system of repentance and conversion WITHIN the Law itself. Yom Kippur and the sacrificial system "enabled" God to put aside sin until the Christ came (according to Hebrews).

The law given to sinners therefore must by default reveal them as sinners.

That would be the effect of the Law. Not the cause of its existence. This effect is not entirely unwanted, since it allows men in sin to repent and call upon God.

For we know that sin appeared in man apart from the law even as righteousness now appears in Christ apart from the law even while the law testifies to his righteousness while also testifying to our sin. Hence I see us all debating an issue laced in semantics, and full of opportunity for misunderstanding. In the big picture I believe the reason for the law is to destroy vanity (the works of Satan) through the cross. Hebrews 2:14.

I believe that the purpose of ANY Law, Mosaic, Natural, Divine - is to call men to union with God. If one does "x" faithfully, God is pleased. This Law is God's will for man. It is how man responds in the Covenantal relationship.

If I may be so bold, to point out some differing perspectives of the phrases "revealing the human condition" and "leading to God". Does God use the law to prove to men that they have a goodness given by God that they fail to use to please God, which shows a lack of love for God? Or...Does God use the law to prove His Spirit is what makes men good?

I think the Law does both, at least that is how I read the Psalms. "Send me your Spirit, oh Lord". I believe that the faithful follower of God in the OT did not attribute his righteousness to his own inherent ability. Such Jews were well aware of their dependency upon God to know the Law and obey it. Cue up Psalm 119, over and over again, this seems to be the subject.

Therefore because of lack of esteem after this manner, He will not give us His righteousness in fullness until we fully admit that? All of this is lost in semantics and is the center of much controversy. I would hope we understand that the law points to Love while Love fulfills the law and I think it will be vain to take it for granted either way.

I agree with your conclusion, but the original problem remains, as far as WHY did God make the Law. The answer will tell us a lot about WHO we think God is and His attributes. Is God a God of Love Who desires to have His Love rebound back to Him? If so, it would seem that "God created the Law to show man he was despicable" just doesn't seem to fit together with the idea that God is Love. Such a God is not a misleading God Who would say that the Law is not too difficult to follow - when it was "impossible", according to some.

Regards

 

[Mitspa]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Rely? Rely on what? Using the context of the passage, what is it that Paul is saying that the works of the law are being relied on to do that results in the curse of the law?

What I know is if some christian try to observ the Law, he/she will fall under the curse of the Law, the cross will became useless (for him/her) and will be disconected from Christ.
That is enough to me for staying far away from observing the Law.

Years ago I was confronted with the overwhelming temptation to leave my wife and kids and take another man's wife (my wife knows all about it). I chose to stick with God and 'not commit adultery'. How did making the choice to do that put me under the curse of the law, rather than the blessing of obedience? It didn't disconnect me from God at all. In fact, quite the opposite. I cherish the ministry of the Spirit and that victory as a time of tremendous contact with God. It will be a special memory of God's grace and goodness and love to me the rest of my days. The Holy Spirit...my coach, my friend, the lover of my soul. Blessed be the Name of the Lord!

What does this mean? Some people who have no knowledge of the law, love their wife and would not cheat.
The scripture says that its ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

If Christ and the Holy Spirit are not enough to keep some from following after their lust? I do not think it is the law, that keeps them from sin. If fact it is the law that stirs-up these evil desires. FOR THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW
It is grace that teaches to deny ungodliness.

 

[Mitspa]

Well it is biblically impossible to use the written code to judge and also be in the Spirit.

I agree with this. The law is the measure of those things walking the direction of sin, something the Spirit cannot do. And can you answer why is it that the law empowers sin?

Well again Pauls epistles explain that the commandments produce evil desires in the flesh. The written code in fact holds a person in bondage to their flesh. If a man seeks to serve God by the written code they are in fact in the flesh. But when we reckon ourselves dead to the written code, with Christ and alive to God in the Spirit, we are set free from these sinful passions. So the written code of the law, makes the flesh master over the spirit, and enslaves a mans soul to sin.

 

[Mitspa]

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€e 11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.â€f 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.â€g 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.â€

well we have some saying they are keeping more and more of the law? Of course this could mean they are becoming more and more like a pharisee. The law not demand you do it better than others, or a little more every day. If fact one is just deceiving themselves by thinking that by looking to the written code, they are keeping any part of it.
I say that NONE who look to the written code are keeping even the first commandment!
The truth is that those who are under the written code are cursed. Now this is made most clear in the Word of God, and like that wicked Cain, who tries to offer to God, the efforts of his labor in the cursed ground. God rejects this labor and it will not be accepted before Him. But Able brings the Lamb and by faith he is righteous!
So some of you can labor in that which is cursed and think the sweat of your brow has some value, if you like? You may think you are not cursed, but you are!

 

[Mitspa]

We have had two posters now that have come on this thread and admitted that they have commited adultry in the heart. That somehow they think that they have kept the commanmdment?? This is the very issue in which the Lord rebuked the pharisee! That if a man sins in heart, he has broken the law. So those who are under law, are in bongage to their sinful passions. This proves Pauls point! That the strength of sin is the law. That one must die to the law, to be set free from sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is grace that teaches to deny ungodliness.

How do you deny ungodliness if you do not know what ungodliness is?

You're kidding yourself if a person thinks that in this world full of the written knowledge of God that they can rely on feelings to know what hurts other people and what doesn't.

Mitspa, I'm becoming convinced that you're so spiritual that you don't even need the sign warning you of the S-curve you can't see in the road ahead. You already know it's there and know to slow down before you even see it. Your great love for mankind by the Spirit of God does this for you. You don't need the sign. You just know it's there and slow down ahead of time. That's how you're coming across with this ridiculous doctrine of law you have.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We have had two posters now that have come on this thread and admitted that they have commited adultry in the heart. That somehow they think that they have kept the commanmdment?? This is the very issue in which the Lord rebuked the pharisee! That if a man sins in heart, he has broken the law. So those who are under law, are in bongage to their sinful passions. This proves Pauls point! That the strength of sin is the law. That one must die to the law, to be set free from sin.

BOO!

Folks, I ask you all, "Who's becoming a Pharisee here?"

Mitspa, do you know the difference between temptation and actually sinning? Jesus was tempted. What does that mean in your misguided doctrine of law? Any and all temptation is sin?

I would not have known what the commandment was except that I was taught it. The love of God in me is what gave me the power to turn away from the sin it prohibited. There was no power in the written Word. Through the written Word is the knowledge of sin. The Spirit is the power to comply with what the written Word says.

You are showing that you simply do not understand the role of the written word in the life of a Christian.