The CURSE OF THE LAW

[Mitspa]

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

2 Cor 3:12-15 Seeing we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not behold the end of that which is ABOLISHED.
But their MINDS WERE BLINDED, for even until this day the same vail remains at the reading of the OLD testament. WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
but even unto this day, when Moses is read the vail is upon their heart.

Deu 28:28-29 THE LORD SHALL SMITE THEE WITH MADNESS, AND BLINDNESS AND ASTONISHMENT OF HEART: AND THOU SHALT GROPE IN THE NOONDAY, AS THE BLIND GROPETH IN DARKNESS.

We see that those who cannot see that Christ is the end of the law, for righteousness. Are indeed cursed, and blind of mind and heart. Altough many claim to be children of the Day, they have no understanding of Gods righteousness and go about to establish their own righteousness, by the written code of the law.

Be sure that in the bible, there is no greater sin than that of turning from grace and Gods righteouness, back to the law and seeking to establish ones own righteousness by the law.

For it would have been better not to have known "the way of righteousness" than, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Pet 2:21

For as a dog returns to its vomit and the sow to its wallowing.

Heb 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man TURN BACK , My soul has no pleasure in him.

FOR THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH, AND THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW.

those who look to the written code are not in faith and are very much in bondage to sin. Cursed children 2 Pet 2:14

 

[francisdesales]

Cursed is everyone who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN in the book of the law to do them.

Could you cite me an OT Scripture that says one must keep the law to the letter or be cast out of the chosen People?

What was Yom Kippur for, Mitspa?

Ever think that Paul was being a good lawyer with his polemics? Cite me something from the OT, that the people would know that they had to obey every single point of the Law or be considered wicked...

I anxiously await your proof...

 

[Deborah13]

We exceed the requirements of the Law by love, indeed. This is a legal sense here that Paul is speaking of. Love goes beyond legal requirements.

Yes, with all my wordiness I didn't get there, You said it so simply. Thank you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Cursed is everyone who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN in the book of the law to do them.

Could you cite me an OT Scripture that says one must keep the law to the letter or be cast out of the chosen People?

What was Yom Kippur for, Mitspa?

Ever think that Paul was being a good lawyer with his polemics? Cite me something from the OT, that the people would know that they had to obey every single point of the Law or be considered wicked...

I anxiously await your proof...

It's interesting that this is the very train of thought I'm beginning to address with him now in the other law thread.

Somehow many think under the law you had to be perfect...and that's what changed in this New Covenant. Now we don't have to be perfect.

I'm anxiously awaiting Mitspa's proof, too.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Those who do love love are lawless.

Fufilling the requirements of the Law doesn't make one lawless!

No more than 'white' is 'black', and 'good' is 'bad'.

Early on as a Christian I used to wonder how people can see things that way and not realize it.

Now I know.

 

[Mitspa]

Cursed is everyone who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN in the book of the law to do them.

Could you cite me an OT Scripture that says one must keep the law to the letter or be cast out of the chosen People?

What was Yom Kippur for, Mitspa?

Ever think that Paul was being a good lawyer with his polemics? Cite me something from the OT, that the people would know that they had to obey every single point of the Law or be considered wicked...

I anxiously await your proof...

Look I do not think Paul wrote ONE WORD apart from the intention of the Holy Spirit. I believe the the scriptures mean what they say, and say what they mean.

As far as feeling I need to prove anything to you? I do not!
Read my post above! For I have given the truth of Gods Word in clear and evident terms.

 

[Mitspa]

Cursed is everyone who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN in the book of the law to do them.

Could you cite me an OT Scripture that says one must keep the law to the letter or be cast out of the chosen People?

What was Yom Kippur for, Mitspa?

Ever think that Paul was being a good lawyer with his polemics? Cite me something from the OT, that the people would know that they had to obey every single point of the Law or be considered wicked...

I anxiously await your proof...

It's interesting that this is the very train of thought I'm beginning to address with him now in the other law thread.

Somehow many think under the law you had to be perfect...and that's what changed in this New Covenant. Now we don't have to be perfect.

I'm anxiously awaiting Mitspa's proof, too.

We who are bornAgain are in fact "perfect" in spirit. We are saved in spirit, not in flesh.
Col 2:10

And you guys can await whatever you like! I will respond and post according to what I see as needed.

The standard of the law was revealed by Christ. For He came and made the true standard of the law known.

Now what many are doing are bringing to law DOWN to mans standard. Just like the pharisee! BREAKING THE LAW into pieces and parts, in order to establish a false standard of mans righteousness.

 

[Mitspa]

He who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Those who do love love are lawless.

Fufilling the requirements of the Law doesn't make one lawless!

No more than 'white' is 'black', and 'good' is 'bad'.

Early on as a Christian I used to wonder how people can see things that way and not realize it.

Now I know.

Sorry, but thats the gospel!
He who loves another has fulfilled the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Those who do love love are lawless.

Fufilling the requirements of the Law doesn't make one lawless!

No more than 'white' is 'black', and 'good' is 'bad'.

Early on as a Christian I used to wonder how people can see things that way and not realize it.

Now I know.

Sorry, but thats the gospel!
He who loves another has fulfilled the law.

...and when you don't do that?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And I don't see how James tells us to judge by the Law. You'll have to show me.

"8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." (James 2:8-9 NASB)

What does James say we will be 'convicted' by if we show favoritism?

To be convicted, like in a court room, of doing something wrong we must be judged as having done wrong. In this case to be convicted of favoritism is to be judged by the law as being a wrong doer.

James says if you do not show favoritism you will fulfilling the law 'love your neighbor as yourself'. But if you do show favoritism you are convicted (judged) by the law (Leviticus 19:15) as being a transgressor of the law, just as you are convicted by the law as a transgressor of the law when you commit murder (Exodus 20:13).

Bottom line: if you insist you are keeping the law 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18), as so many in the church insist they are doing, but show favoritism (Leviticus 19:15) you are convicted by the very law you think you have been vindicated by. The requirements of the law upheld by faith working thorough love is how we please God.

He says faith without works is dead. What works, the works that are manifest in us by the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit. Judge ours by that by love, etc.

But if you judge your love by a requirement of the law (as James does) that is wrong and forbidden to do and actually causes me to sin? Really?

Love is indeed measured by the law (and then some). But somehow the church thinks love is something outside of and apart from the law. Love is the very heart and soul of the requirements of the law, yet we insist the law is the forbidden four letter word of the New Covenant.

James uses at least four specific examples of Mosaic laws to illustrate how the faith that saves has the loving work required by the law attached, and that the 'faith' that doesn't have that lawful work attached...well...you know what it says. It can't save.

 

[Mitspa]

No more than 'white' is 'black', and 'good' is 'bad'.

Early on as a Christian I used to wonder how people can see things that way and not realize it.

Now I know.

Sorry, but thats the gospel!
He who loves another has fulfilled the law.

...and when you don't do that?

Those who God loves, He corrects.
But NEVER is a believer Put back under the bondage of the law. WHICH IS THE STRENGTH OF SIN.

 

[Mitspa]

And I don't see how James tells us to judge by the Law. You'll have to show me.

"8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." (James 2:8-9 NASB)

What does James say we will be 'convicted' by if we show favoritism?

To be convicted, like in a court room, of doing something wrong we must be judged as having done wrong. In this case to be convicted of favoritism is to be judged by the law as being a wrong doer.

James says if you do not show favoritism you will fulfilling the law 'love your neighbor as yourself'. But if you do show favoritism you are convicted (judged) by the law (Leviticus 19:15) as being a transgressor of the law, just as you are convicted by the law as a transgressor of the law when you commit murder (Exodus 20:13).

Bottom line: if you insist you are keeping the law 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18), as so many in the church insist they are doing, but show favoritism (Leviticus 19:15) you are convicted by the very law you think you have been vindicated by. The requirements of the law upheld by faith working thorough love is how we please God.

He says faith without works is dead. What works, the works that are manifest in us by the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit. Judge ours by that by love, etc.

But if you judge your love by a requirement of the law (as James does) that is wrong and forbidden to do and actually causes me to sin? Really?

Love is indeed measured by the law (and then some). But somehow the church thinks love is something outside of and apart from the law. Love is the very heart and soul of the requirements of the law, yet we insist the law is the forbidden four letter word of the New Covenant.

James uses at least four specific examples of Mosaic laws to illustrate how the faith that saves has the loving work required by the law attached, and that the 'faith' that doesn't have that lawful work attached...well...you know what it says. It can't save.

Again James uses the law as a witness to love, just as Paul did!
The Royal Law is "love"
Rom 13:8-10
Now just as those who break one part of the law of moses, have broken it all, so are those who love the rich man and reproach the poor. THIS IS THE POINT

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No more than 'white' is 'black', and 'good' is 'bad'.

Early on as a Christian I used to wonder how people can see things that way and not realize it.

Now I know.

Sorry, but thats the gospel!
He who loves another has fulfilled the law.

...and when you don't do that?

Those who God loves, He corrects.
But NEVER is a believer Put back under the bondage of the law. WHICH IS THE STRENGTH OF SIN.

And so, somehow, there was no correction, no forgiveness available in the law, just a harsh demand for absolute perfection with no clauses to accommodate failure or imperfection, and no need for the provision of sacrifice it had?

Getting the point?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Again James uses the law as a witness to love, just as Paul did!
The Royal Law is "love"

Right. The law of Moses can be used to witness for or against you as to whether you have been upholding the royal law found in that same law. But you swear we can't do that, because that would be 'looking to the law' and being condemned as someone who is trying to be justified by the law and who would then be under the curse of the law.

Rom 13:8-10

Just another example of a NT writer demonstrating how the Mosaic law 'love your neighbor as yourself' keeps other Mosaic laws. Mosaic laws some confidently assert have passed away and are a sin to acknowledge because that's the same as trying to be justified by those laws, and laws which cause us to sin, and which we Christians are no longer 'under'.

 

[Mitspa]

...and when you don't do that?

Those who God loves, He corrects.
But NEVER is a believer Put back under the bondage of the law. WHICH IS THE STRENGTH OF SIN.

And so, somehow, there was no correction, no forgiveness available in the law, just a harsh demand for absolute perfection with no clauses to accommodate failure or imperfection, and no need for the provision of sacrifice it had?

Getting the point?

Yes BEFORE Christ and the Cross, the law had those requirments of blood sacrifices, that covered sin until the fulfillment of the law through Christ. GET THE POINT?

 

[Mitspa]

Again James uses the law as a witness to love, just as Paul did!
The Royal Law is "love"

Right. The law of Moses can be used to witness for or against you as to whether you have been upholding the royal law found in that same law. But you swear we can't do that, because that would be 'looking to the law' and being condemned as someone who is trying to be justified by the law and who would then be under the curse of the law.

Rom 13:8-10

Just another example of a NT writer demonstrating how the Mosaic law 'love your neighbor as yourself' keeps other Mosaic laws. Mosaic laws some confidently assert have passed away and are a sin to acknowledge because that's the same as trying to be justified by those laws, and laws which cause us to sin, and which we Christians are no longer 'under'.

well a believer is not judged by the written code of moses, but by the Royal law of love.

The commandment of Christ.
And this is My Commandment; THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU.

you see a believer is not judged by the Old law, but by THE LAW OF CHRIST.

 

[Mitspa]

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

2 Cor 3:12-15 Seeing we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not behold the end of that which is ABOLISHED.
But their MINDS WERE BLINDED, for even until this day the same vail remains at the reading of the OLD testament. WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
but even unto this day, when Moses is read the vail is upon their heart.

Deu 28:28-29 THE LORD SHALL SMITE THEE WITH MADNESS, AND BLINDNESS AND ASTONISHMENT OF HEART: AND THOU SHALT GROPE IN THE NOONDAY, AS THE BLIND GROPETH IN DARKNESS.

We see that those who cannot see that Christ is the end of the law, for righteousness. Are indeed cursed, and blind of mind and heart. Altough many claim to be children of the Day, they have no understanding of Gods righteousness and go about to establish their own righteousness, by the written code of the law.

Be sure that in the bible, there is no greater sin than that of turning from grace and Gods righteouness, back to the law and seeking to establish ones own righteousness by the law.

For it would have been better not to have known "the way of righteousness" than, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy commandment delivered unto them. 2 Pet 2:21

For as a dog returns to its vomit and the sow to its wallowing.

Heb 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man TURN BACK , My soul has no pleasure in him.

FOR THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH, AND THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW.

those who look to the written code are not in faith and are very much in bondage to sin. Cursed children 2 Pet 2:14

One should see that those who look to the letter are yet in bondage to sinful passions aroused by the written code. They cannot understand that love shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit is the fulfillment of the law. That we who walk in the spirit are set free from sin, which dwells in the flesh of all men. The written code of the law, cannot produce godliness and only causes sinful desires in those who look to the written code.
Rom 7:7-8

FOR SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.

 

[Deborah13]

"8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,†you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." (James 2:8-9 NASB)

What does James say we will be 'convicted' by if we show favoritism?

No he is not saying we will be judged by the Law of Moses.

James uses at least four specific examples of Mosaic laws to illustrate how the faith that saves has the loving work required by the law attached,

There is nothing attached to the Royal Law, it stands on it's own. Could one find much of the Law of Moses in the Royal Law and vise versa, yes of coarse we are talking about the same God who gave both, so we could expect that.

James' audience is Jews, he taught in Jerusalem and in the temple there, too. He was addressing people who had been raised knowing the Law of Moses, the Torah. He was pointing out to them that if they did not love then even the Law of Moses would convict them because this law was there also. In fact, the LoMoses said if they broke one they broke them all. He gives an example which he could have gone on and on, if you don't commit adultery but you lie, if you don't lie but you backbite...you've broken them all. He was a comparison they could understand. So he tells them this...

12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

He clearly says they are going to be judged by the law of liberty, if that is what they choose. For mercy triumphs over judgment. No I know you will say that he was saying only if they obey the law of liberty otherwise they will be judged by the law of Moses. So what is the law of liberty? If it is different than the Law of Moses, how? James clearly says it is.

This is just my understanding, I respect you have your own. The Lord lets us choose. I choose grace, I don't think I'll make it to perfection, in the flesh, before I leave the world.

 

[francisdesales]

Cursed is everyone who continues not IN ALL THINGS WRITTEN in the book of the law to do them.

Could you cite me an OT Scripture that says one must keep the law to the letter or be cast out of the chosen People?

What was Yom Kippur for, Mitspa?

Ever think that Paul was being a good lawyer with his polemics? Cite me something from the OT, that the people would know that they had to obey every single point of the Law or be considered wicked...

I anxiously await your proof...

Look I do not think Paul wrote ONE WORD apart from the intention of the Holy Spirit. I believe the the scriptures mean what they say, and say what they mean.

As far as feeling I need to prove anything to you? I do not!
Read my post above! For I have given the truth of Gods Word in clear and evident terms.

Mitspa,

The more I have read about Paul and the Law, the more I believe you are incorrect regarding the "unfulfillability" of the Law that you claim that Paul has...

Phil 3 shows Paul had NO PROBLEM fulfilling the Law satisfactorily. Paul's argument concerning the Law does not rest on man's inability to fulfil it.

Perhaps you will cite Romans 7. There is no evidence that this was Paul's state of mind WHEN HE WAS A ZEALOUS JEW! Paul contrasts the life in Christ with his past life under the Law. Looking at the Law through a Christian's eyes does not mean that Paul experienced frustration with the Law before his own conversion.

I believe that your understanding of what the Law does in the JEW'S mind is deficient. In addition, it is clear to me that you are ignoring the obvious - that God had established a system to return the individual who had fallen back to the grace of God and the community. You seem to totally ignore that, as well.

Thus, your idea that one must fulfill each and every iota of the Law to be just in God's eyes are simply false. "All seemed rubbish" because of what Paul had experienced through Christ. Once one experienced Christ, there was no reason to return to the Law, but it is more of a "better than" argument, not the argument that you continue to make that has Paul indecisively calling the Law "holy" and regarding zeal for the Law in a positive light versus Paul calling the Law evil and the cause of sin...

Because of such contradictory teachings that you continue to present and refuse to address, one must consider your gospel as incomplete and corrupt.

 

[francisdesales]

We who are bornAgain are in fact "perfect" in spirit. We are saved in spirit, not in flesh.
Col 2:10

KAIESTEENAUTW PEPLHRWMENOI. And, ye are filled with him. It has nothing to do with what you are implying...

The philosophy of the world was empty. In Christ, there is fulness.

No fanciful completeness in Christ, of a believer, while incomplete in himself, is either expressed or
intended by St. Paul.

As usual, you go beyond what Paul is saying...

And you guys can await whatever you like! I will respond and post according to what I see as needed.

Of course, Mitspa, that's the type of response we have come to expect from you. Usually, when you can't answer something that doesn't fit your theology, you ignore it. That's why I sarcastically said "I await your response", because I knew you wouldn't give one.