The CURSE OF THE LAW

[Mitspa]

Very good post Idavid.
I think one can see the process of "through the law, dying to the law" being set free from the letter and into life in the Spirit.
again, thank you.

 

[Mitspa]

Very good post Idavid.
I think one can see the process of "through the law, dying to the law" being set free from the letter and into life in the Spirit.
again, thank you.

This shows again the issue of the curse? For just as God had cursed the ground, for mans sake. Cain attempted to labor in that which God put the curse upon.( A picture of those who labor in the law) and God did not receive nor bless his labors.
Able was righteous because he offered the Lamb, by faith, and he was accepted before God.

those who are looking to the written code, are trying to serve God by the flesh. They yet have confidence in their flesh, and have not obeyed the gospel. They can never keep the standard of the law, and while try they can never walk in faith.
FOR THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.

only when one admits before God, I know nothing good dwells in my flesh, does God give grace.

For the harlot this is easy, for the pharisee this is almost impossilble. Lest God knock them from their high horse!

The fact that many on this thread boast that they are keeping parts of the Ten Commandments, prove that they are yet in bondage to the law. For the purpose of the law IS THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE SHUT, AND THE WHOLE WORLD BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

 

[Deborah13]

In conclusion, God receives all the glory - not by force or by command, but by making me perceive the knowledge of His glorious nature. And in that, I am changed bit-by-bit - until I am fully conformed to the image of His Son, in which hope I live.

Very good and edifying post, thank you.

 

[Deborah13]

those who are looking to the written code, are trying to serve God by the flesh. They yet have confidence in their flesh, and have not obeyed the gospel

I'd like to add that I don't think that obeying the code in a "earning something" way is always because one has confidence in the flesh. It can be quite the opposite, it can be such an intense fear of lose of salvation and/or relationship that drives a person to this process.

Fear of the Lord as in reverence and esteem, as the Almighty Creator, is good but the type of fear I'm referring to can be as the Word says, that it comes from the deceiver (satan). It can lead some to despair and others to judging others and pretty soon the finger points back to themselves.

Fear is a very big and powerful four letter word when it is misplaced.

 

[Deborah13]

Then why did Paul put the Christians at Corinth

Any preacher, teacher, evangelist worth a darn is not just talking to the believers in their audience. Even a pastor's own church he can't know for sure that each and everyone is truly saved. It also been made clear in the history of the church (writings) that the letters of the apostles were shared with others, other churches, etc.
Messages should reach all.
My favorite grace preacher lately has been making very clear that he is against sin. So there is no misunderstanding in his growing church.

 

[childeye]

Ivdavid, thank you for your response on the crucifying of the flesh. Being familiar with your personal sentiments through prior writings, I expected no less. I still am not comfortable saying I sin\I don't sin. I don't expect you to reslove that issue for me, nor do I think it can be resolved in this present world. I am always left wondering whether I gave enough, suffered enough, cared enough. I do not like to feel guilty about such things, but I also am thankful to God that I do. Love is ever busy and there is always another person in need of Love. While others are hungry and I am full, I must admit, it is not right. Although I Love to Love, I also look forward to a time when no one goes without. God willing, I will see it and so will you.

 

[Mitspa]

those who are looking to the written code, are trying to serve God by the flesh. They yet have confidence in their flesh, and have not obeyed the gospel

I'd like to add that I don't think that obeying the code in a "earning something" way is always because one has confidence in the flesh. It can be quite the opposite, it can be such an intense fear of lose of salvation and/or relationship that drives a person to this process.

Fear of the Lord as in reverence and esteem, as the Almighty Creator, is good but the type of fear I'm referring to can be as the Word says, that it comes from the deceiver (satan). It can lead some to despair and others to judging others and pretty soon the finger points back to themselves.

Fear is a very big and powerful four letter word when it is misplaced.

I agree Deb, many are under the yoke of law, because of tradition and the fear of admitting what is made so clear in scripture. Paul addressed the very issue when he wrote that God had not given us a spirit of bondage again to fear. Here he makes a direct contrast with the Holy Spirit, and the fear and bondage of the written code of the law.

FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

 

[Mitspa]

Ivdavid, thank you for your response on the crucifying of the flesh. Being familiar with your personal sentiments through prior writings, I expected no less. I still am not comfortable saying I sin\I don't sin. I don't expect you to reslove that issue for me, nor do I think it can be resolved in this present world. I am always left wondering whether I gave enough, suffered enough, cared enough. I do not like to feel guilty about such things, but I also am thankful to God that I do. Love is ever busy and there is always another person in need of Love. While others are hungry and I am full, I must admit, it is not right. Although I Love to Love, I also look forward to a time when no one goes without. God willing, I will see it and so will you.

No Christain will love others above the knowlede they have of Gods love for them. For this is as much a law as any law of God. WE LOVE HIM BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US.

we can only love based upon the love we receive first.

The Old Law demanded that we love God with all our strength mind etc... Now no one has kept this commandment but Christ.
But the New Covenant, is based upon Gods love first given to us, which causes us to love Him, and others. this is the fulfillment of the law.

I am also reminded that we can give all our goods to feed the poor, but if we do not have AGAPE, it profits nothing.

And The Lord Himself said THAT THOSE WHO ARE FORGIVEN MUCH LOVE MUCH. a believer will never love above the trust they have In His forgivness.

And love fulfills all the law, so only those who know they are sanctified forever by His one offering, will love as they should.

 

[ivdavid]

I still am not comfortable saying I sin\I don't sin.

I don't think the knowledge of who 'I' am or what the flesh/spirit is doing in me is in any way meant to make us feel more comfortable about the fall from God's holy standards that we see in us and around us. While Paul did identify in true knowledge the scope of his acts in Rom 7:17, it didn't stop him from crying out Rom 7:24. And he presses on in Php 3:13-14, which seems to be the most sensible approach towards completion by incomplete beings like us.

Although I Love to Love, I also look forward to a time when no one goes without. God willing, I will see it and so will you.

Amen.

 

[Mitspa]

YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE?

only when one understands and really "hears" the law, do they really understand that they can never please God through the efforts of the natural man. Only when one understands that all flesh is as grass and all the glory of man, is as a flower that fades. When one understands the message and purpose of the law is to condemn all flesh, FOR THEIR IS NONE RIGHTEOUSNESS, NO NOT ONE!
The ministry of death and condemnation, written and engraved in stones.

So through the law, we die to the law? We die to the lie and the deception that we know and can do good.
This is blindness! Those who "think" they are keeping the law, are blinded and cursed by the law.
2 Cor 3

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My favorite grace preacher lately has been making very clear that he is against sin. So there is no misunderstanding in his growing church.

What's he telling them sin is?

Somewhere along the line the curse of the law went from NOT upholding the moral requirements of the law (through faith), to WANTING to uphold the requirements of the law.

26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” (Matthew 7:26-27 NASB)

So many in the church think that just 'having love' is what it means to have the faith that saves, not knowing that love that does not act in accordance with the requirements of the moral law is really not the love of God at all and is really a 'love' that represents a faith that can not save.

Just the suggestion that the love of God is given to them to uphold the law is immediately perceived as 'trying to be justified by the law', or 'that's judgmental, you can't tell people that' and is instantly rejected. But we see in scripture that the keeping of various moral requirements of the law is how our faith in God is judged as being genuine or not.

How is love somehow a command separate and unconnected to the keeping of the moral laws of Moses? How did the requirements of the law, 'do not covet', 'do not steal', etc. become 'works' and the curse of the law, while this vague, nebulous idea of love, unrelated to and little to do with the law of Moses, became the only 'thing' we have to do?

I suggest to you what I've been saying all along. The Church doesn't understand that what 'passed away' was the WAY of law--the way of relating to God through Spirit-less words. The requirements of the (moral) law themselves did not 'pass away'. That's just crazy to believe that they did. What changed is those requirements are now upheld through the new WAY of faith in Christ, not somehow removed. It 's not a curse to be conscious of what faith upholds in the law when faced with the temptation to do what the law forbids.

The curse of the law remains for the person who turns away from Christ and does not uphold the requirements of the law through faith in Christ (the only way they can be upheld). Somehow the curse of the law became simply acknowledging what the law requires and seeking to uphold it (through faith). How ridiculous. That is the false gospel that has blinded the church and made her the corrupt, do-nothing, 'license to sin' church she is. She is no better than the Jews who thought that mere possession of the knowledge of God was good enough to save them. As I quoted above, Jesus said that ain't gonna be good enough.

 

[Elijah674]

If you are asking about the Lords Law that He 'penned himself', it is still there in heaven in the Most Holy Place.
Rev. 11
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

--Elijah

 

[Mitspa]

YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE?

only when one understands and really "hears" the law, do they really understand that they can never please God through the efforts of the natural man. Only when one understands that all flesh is as grass and all the glory of man, is as a flower that fades. When one understands the message and purpose of the law is to condemn all flesh, FOR THEIR IS NONE RIGHTEOUSNESS, NO NOT ONE!
The ministry of death and condemnation, written and engraved in stones.

So through the law, we die to the law? We die to the lie and the deception that we know and can do good.
This is blindness! Those who "think" they are keeping the law, are blinded and cursed by the law.
2 Cor 3

It is evident and clear that those who look to the Ten Commandments to judge righteousness, are in fact cursed by the law. And are held in bondage to their own sin Rom 7:7-8

Just as the pharisee, who thought that through the written code they knew God, but where deceived by their own flesh.

They had a "form" of godliness, that has an appearance of righteousness by carnal efforts to look to the law and keep its requirements. THIS HAS BEEN REJECTED BY GOD! just as God rejected Cains labors. For those who are under the law, are under its curse.

God is a Spirit, and those who worship Him, must worship Him in spirit. As Paul wrote we are those who worship God in spirit and have no confidence in the flesh.

The very fact that some are looking to the written code, proves they are not walking in the spirit.

FOR THE LETTER KILLS BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

 

[Mitspa]

If you are asking about the Lords Law that He 'penned himself', it is still there in heaven in the Most Holy Place.
Rev. 11
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

--Elijah

No I am speaking of God who came in the flesh and bore the sins of believers upon the Cross, so that we could be set free from the law of sin and death.

For Christ Jesus is the Word of God. The old testament was but a type and shadow of Him and His coming. The New Testament is the revelation of His Glory.

Heb 4:10-11

 

[Jethro Bodine]

15 Everyone who hates his brother (Leviticus 19:17 NASB) is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (Exodus 20:13 NASB). 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him (Deuteronomy 15:7-8 NASB), how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight." (1 John 3: NASB)


Here John explains that we can know we have eternal life in us, and "we are of the truth", and can "assure our heart before him" when we don't have hatred in our hearts, and we have open hearts toward the poor and needy keeping the law of Moses.

He goes on to say that we "receive from Him because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight". But somehow keeping the law out of love for others does NOT show our righteousness, and is in fact a curse to think it does???? And that I'm actually putting myself in the bondage of sin for heeding what John is teaching? Wow! What a horrible distortion of the truth. I think the scriptures speak the real truth about this pretty clearly.

It is NOT a curse to seek to uphold the law and know you are righteous, and have eternal life, and have the love of God in you by doing that. That is NOT what it means to be 'under the law'. The curse of the law comes from NOT doing what John said. How did this false gospel of 'do-nothing grace' that actually tells you to NOT keep the law for fear of 'working', and says you are blessed for that, get into the church?

 

[Mitspa]

15 Everyone who hates his brother (Leviticus 19:17 NASB) is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (Exodus 20:13 NASB). 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him (Deuteronomy 15:7-8 NASB), how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight." (1 John 3: NASB)


Here John explains that we can know we have eternal life in us, and "we are of the truth", and can "assure our heart before him" when we don't have hatred in our hearts, and we have open hearts toward the poor and needy keeping the law of Moses.

He goes on to say that we "receive from Him because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight". But somehow keeping the law out of love for others does NOT show our righteousness, and is in fact a curse to think it does???? And that I'm actually putting myself in the bondage of sin for heeding what John is teaching? Wow! What a horrible distortion of the truth. I think the scriptures speak the real truth about this pretty clearly.

It is NOT a curse to seek to uphold the law and know you are righteous, and have eternal life, and have the love of God in you by doing that. That is NOT what it means to be 'under the law'. The curse of the law comes from NOT doing what John said. How did this false gospel of 'do-nothing grace' that actually tells you to NOT keep the law for fear of 'working', and says you are blessed for that, get into the church?

That no man is justified by the law, in the sight of God is EVIDENT. for the law is not of faith.
The law "written code" produces sinful desires and is the strength of sin. Rom 7:7-8
Yes, he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
And this is His Commandment That we believe on His Son and love as He gave commandment.

Love "agape" is not by the letter but by the Spirit.

For the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Those who look to the written code are not in the Spirit but are in the flesh.
So they cannot please God.

 

[Elijah674]

Well it is easily seen that you know nothing of the judgment of Eccl. 12:13-14.
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

And according to the book of Rev. the Ark is still there. (Rev. 11:18-19) And inside are the Tables of Stone that God alone Himself wrote. Then perhaps you do not know what is inside this opened Ark?

But make NO mistake verse 18 tells who it is who are judged lost.

 

[Deborah13]

How is love somehow a command separate and unconnected to the keeping of the moral laws of Moses? How did the requirements of the law, 'do not covet', 'do not steal', etc. become 'works' and the curse of the law, while this vague, nebulous idea of love, unrelated to and little to do with the law of Moses, became the only 'thing' we have to do?

Vague, nebulous idea?? Since when is God's Love, vague and nebulous? I don't know who these people in the church are that you are speaking of or who they are getting their idea of love and grace from. God's Love is very real, powerful, all encompassing. It is by this powerful love that we are able to love God and love others with a true love that shows true faith. It's this love of God that enables us to forgive others of even the most terrible offenses against us.
The Word says that those who have been forgiven much, love much. Why do you think that is? When someone understands how big God's love, mercy, Grace is towards them it produces love. Now I believe what God says and if He says His grace produces love, which is what I want to have, then I am going to walk in grace. There is one fruit of the Spirit, it is love. That fruit gives us the strength to act in love. Looking at the law does not produce the fruit of the Spirit, looking at Jesus, looking at the cross does.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

For the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Those who look to the written code are not in the Spirit but are in the flesh.
So they cannot please God.

Your narrow and single-minded definition of 'looking to the law' is what is wrong here. And for some reason you refuse to be shown there is a much broader and acceptable way to 'look to the law'.

I showed you where John and James said we can know by the law if we have the righteousness of Christ and belong to the truth and have eternal life and have the love of God in us and can expect to be saved on the Day of Wrath. But you, along with much of the church, categorically dismiss any and all acknowledgment of the requirements of the law as 'trying to be justified by the law'. That shows a terrible lack of Biblical knowledge. You're the victim of a misguided indoctrination of grace/law in the church that actually says it's sinful to want to 'keep' the law and instead turn to the deceitfulness of some kind of nebulous lovey dovey feeling and words, not actions in accordance with the requirements of the law.

Your doctrine amounts to nothing less than calling 'white' 'black', and 'good' 'evil'. You would think people would know when they're doing that, but as I've learned that's hardly true.

 

[Mitspa]

Well it is easily seen that you know nothing of the judgment of Eccl. 12:13-14.
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

And according to the book of Rev. the Ark is still there. (Rev. 11:18-19) And inside are the Tables of Stone that God alone Himself wrote. Then perhaps you do not know what is inside this opened Ark?

But make NO mistake verse 18 tells who it is who are judged lost.

Well maybe you do not understand that Christ alone has poured His Blood upon the Mercy Seat, and He alone sets upon the throne of judgement above that which was but a witness to Him and His righteousness.

So to fall from grace is to fall back DOWN to the law.