The "End Times"

[Dorothy Mae]

You said they couldn't observe thier faith as Moses. Moses didn't make sacrifices at a temple in Jerusalem.

There was the tabernacle where the holy of holies was. It was in one place, not just anywhere in the wilderness. They camped to the north, south, east and west in what I have heard what the shape of a cross from the air.

Then the temple God commanded was built. No tabernacle was then used and sacrificing in the high places wherever was forbidden.

 

[eddif]

I haven't read all of your posts with journeyman on Eden, but in his post I haven't seen where he looking to go back in time. Maybe I miss-understood your comment.



When I read this post, I thought of Isaiah 51.


Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD:
look unto the rock whence ye are hewn,
and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
Look unto Abraham your father,
and unto Sarah that bare you:
for I called him alone,
and blessed him, and increased him.
For the LORD shall comfort Zion:
he will comfort all her waste places;
and he will make her wilderness like Eden,
and her desert like the garden of the LORD;
joy and gladness shall be found therein,
thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

lol it is getting hard to post without your words being manipulated.
eddif (me) does not want anything to do with Eden, other than see the symbolism hidden in Eden.

I am joyful to be in tribulation (now and in the future). The end result will be the return of Jesus. The spiritual gifts were not in Eden (as far as I can see). If this gets turned around just PM me.
I promote:
One new man
New Jerusalem
Quickening Spirit
Holy Spirit Gifts
Office Gifts to the Church
Human body symbolism
The resurrection in the future

Wonder if this list will be twisted. Part of what we risk.

eddif

 

[Shilohsfoal]

There was the tabernacle where the holy of holies was. It was in one place, not just anywhere in the wilderness. They camped to the north, south, east and west in what I have heard what the shape of a cross from the air.

Then the temple God commanded was built. No tabernacle was then used and sacrificing in the high places wherever was forbidden.

You said they can't practice the faith of Moses. Yes they can. Moses did not sacrifice in a temple in Jerusalem.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You said they can't practice the faith of Moses. Yes they can. Moses did not sacrifice in a temple in Jerusalem.

Moses offered blood sacrifices in the tabernacle as well as talking to God face to face as a man talks to his friend. I sincerely doubt any Jew in Israel says that describes them.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I do not see that the last verse has to follow immediately in time from the previous. This is the translation I have that your version is missing:

1...At that time your people shall be delivered, every one whose name shall be found written in the book. (No christians died in the fall of Jerusalem. They were all delivered.)

2 And many of those who sleep in the dusts of the earth shall awake....

No "at that time" before the resurrection verse. The "at that time" is before the delivering the people verse. The timing for the Resurrection is not immediate. The Resurrection is the end of this age, I think and is not connected to the trouble Daniel described.

Daniel wrote AT THAT TIME.
Everyone found written would be deliverd, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.
Daniel included that verse at that time.

All he wrote was AT THAT TIME. He didn't write many who sleep in the dust would awake thousands of years after that time.
At that time. Your people would be deliverd, everyone found written.

You believe all of Daniels people who's names are written were deliverd in 70 AD?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

There was the tabernacle where the holy of holies was. It was in one place, not just anywhere in the wilderness. They camped to the north, south, east and west in what I have heard what the shape of a cross from the air.

Then the temple God commanded was built. No tabernacle was then used and sacrificing in the high places wherever was forbidden.

So you believe observing the faith as Moses is forbidden by God?

 

[T. E. Smith]

Dorothy Mae daninthelionsden Problem is that the Mosaic law was never intended to be kept outside the context of the original nation of Israel which existed thousands of years ago. That's why you have complications with where to offer sacrifices, etc.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Daniel wrote AT THAT TIME.
Everyone found written would be deliverd, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.
Daniel included that verse at that time.

No, he wrote at the time those who names where found in the book would be delivered. That is the reference following at that time. No "at that time" in regards the Resurrection. And in fact, being delivered cannot be the resurrection. It refers alone to the living and the christians were delivered. They got the heck out of dodge as Jesus commanded. There was an at that time for the release of Michael and at the time for the delivery but no at that time for the resurrection.

All he wrote was AT THAT TIME. He didn't write many who sleep in the dust would awake thousands of years after that time.
At that time. Your people would be deliverd, everyone found written.

No. The at that time referred only to being rescued. The being rescued and the resurrection are not connected.

You believe all of Daniels people who's names are written were deliverd in 70 AD?

Those who were alive at the time of the events Daniel wrote of were delivered out of that judgement on the city.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So you believe observing the faith as Moses is forbidden by God?

It is difficult to talk with you as you keep asking me if I believe things I never even hinted at.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy Mae daninthelionsden Problem is that the Mosaic law was never intended to be kept outside the context of the original nation of Israel which existed thousands of years ago. That's why you have complications with where to offer sacrifices, etc.

That is, of course, correct. But it still means that even in Israel today, they cannot keep those ordinances.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It is difficult to talk with you as you keep asking me if I believe things I never even hinted at.

It sounded like you wee saying it's forbidden. You said sacrificing in other high places were forbidden.
That's sounds like you are saying God forbids them from sacrifing in places such as Moses did.
Or are you saying someone else forbids it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It sounded like you wee saying it's forbidden. You said sacrificing in other high places were forbidden.

The law of Moses forbad sacrifices in the high places. The OT repeatedly talks about them doing so and it was not what they were supposed to do. That is NOT saying following Moses was forbidden but sacrificing anywhere you want is. The law of Moses, not me, forbade it. Is that now clear?

That's sounds like you are saying God forbids them from sacrifing in places such as Moses did.
Or are you saying someone else forbids it?

Moses sacrificed where he was told to do so since he got the laws from God which was in the tabernacle. Modern Israel has no such tabernacle, nor temple. The people were in the wilderness for a time but there was still order.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No, he wrote at the time those who names where found in the book would be delivered. That is the reference following at that time. No "at that time" in regards the Resurrection. And in fact, being delivered cannot be the resurrection. It refers alone to the living and the christians were delivered. They got the heck out of dodge as Jesus commanded. There was an at that time for the release of Michael and at the time for the delivery but no at that time for the resurrection.

No. The at that time referred only to being rescued. The being rescued and the resurrection are not connected.

Those who were alive at the time of the events Daniel wrote of were delivered out of that judgement on the city.

Daniel is the one who included the resurection in that time.
Let us look at the scripture yet again.

Daniel 12:1 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will...

biblehub.com

Daniel 12:2 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

biblehub.com

You see Daniel did not split the resurection of those who slept apart from those who are delivered. He kept them together and not separated by thousands of years.

Much like Paul did not separate the living being delivered at the same time as those who sleep.in the dust. He even mentions the arch angel as Daniel did.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 - The Return of the Lord

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

biblehub.com

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - The Return of the Lord

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

biblehub.com

Do you believe Paul shouldn't have included the dead with the living as Daniel did?

 

[ezrider]

Daniel is the one who included the resurection in that time.
Let us look at the scripture yet again.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your peop Daniel 12:2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
You see Daniel did not split the resurection of those who slept apart from those who are delivered. He kept them together and not separated by thousands of years.

Jesus quoted Daniel when he spoke of the resurrection in John 5

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

At the end of the millennium, those not resurrected to life await the second death.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

What about the current church discipline? New covenant discipline.

What about Ezekiel 17 and the attempted forced dominance tried on Israel, and how plant apical dominance can help understand what was attempted. I doubt I will ever get more unless I share the little I see. Are you into botany?

eddif

I'm talking about new covenant discipline. In my younger years, Jesus would have gladly told a parable about the law.....with me on the receiving end! I'm humbled and grateful to know that I'm superior to no one.
I'm not real botany, but I understand that people are likened to plants in scripture and plants come from seeds, or seed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Daniel is the one who included the resurection in that time.
Let us look at the scripture yet again.

Daniel 12:1 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will...

biblehub.com

Daniel 12:2 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

biblehub.com

You see Daniel did not split the resurection of those who slept apart from those who are delivered. He kept them together and not separated by thousands of years.

He only said that it (the Resurrection) followed and left out "at that time" which indicates it was not necessarily at that time. It follows but not directly. That is my view.

Much like Paul did not separate the living being delivered at the same time as those who sleep.in the dust. He even mentions the arch angel as Daniel did.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 - The Return of the Lord

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

biblehub.com

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - The Return of the Lord

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

biblehub.com

Do you believe Paul shouldn't have included the dead with the living as Daniel did?

The scriptures Paul wrote in Thessalonians describes the resurrection. There is no mention of a tribulation in the verses preceding that. That fits.

 

[eddif]

If that is so, then you also must believe the resurection took place at that time as that is what Daniel stated would take place at that time. Here is what Daniel says would take place at the time of the end which according to you took place in 70 AD.

Daniel 11:40 - The King Who Exalts Himself

At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

biblehub.com

Daniel 11:41 - The King Who Exalts Himself

He will also invade the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall. But these will be delivered from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the leaders of the Ammonites.

biblehub.com

Daniel 11:42 - The King Who Exalts Himself

He will extend his power over many countries, and not even the land of Egypt will escape.

biblehub.com

Daniel 11:43 - The King Who Exalts Himself

He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushites will also submit to him.

biblehub.com

Daniel 11:44 - The King Who Exalts Himself

But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.

biblehub.com

Daniel 11:45 - The King Who Exalts Himself

He will pitch his royal tents between the sea and the beautiful holy mountain, but he will meet his end with no one to help him.

biblehub.com

Daniel 12:1 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will...

biblehub.com

Daniel 12:2 - Michael's Deliverance and the End Times

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

biblehub.com

So according to the prophecy of Daniel, everyone found written would be delivered including those who sleep in the dust at this time of distress. Do you claim that all this took place AT THAT TIME?

I am not a good end times student. With all the quibbling over time I have a question.

At the time of the death and resurrection of Jesus ( sin of all time placed on Jesus ). There was a mini resurrection with graves opened and people coming to life, is this event in prophecy and if so where.

eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I haven't read all of your posts with journeyman
When I read this post, I thought of Isaiah 51.


Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD:
look unto the rock whence ye are hewn,
and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
Look unto Abraham your father,
and unto Sarah that bare you:
for I called him alone,
and blessed him, and increased him.
For the LORD shall comfort Zion:
he will comfort all her waste places;
and he will make her wilderness like Eden,
and her desert like the garden of the LORD;
joy and gladness shall be found therein,
thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Yes, exactly! The gospel preceeded the law,

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law,which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Gal.3:16-17

And Abraham was preceded by the gospel in Genesis. It has never changed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus quoted Daniel when he spoke of the resurrection in John 5

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

At the end of the millennium, those not resurrected to life await the second death.

Pretty interesting that Jesus said, “the hour is coming and now is” I think. I’m drawing no conclusions nor do I explain it. I just notice it, being open to ideas and others’ thoughts about it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am not a good end times student. With all the quibbling over time I have a question.

At the time of the death and resurrection of Jesus ( sin of all time placed on Jesus ). There was a mini resurrection with graves opened and people coming to life, is this event in prophecy and if so where.

eddif

I have no idea. I only am careful in attaching labels from man’s theology to events. I believe it but Im not confident of its label.