The "End Times"

[eddif]

Jesus quoted Daniel when he spoke of the resurrection in John 5

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

At the end of the millennium, those not resurrected to life await the second death.

If I would have read your post earlier I might would have noticed all did not arise at the mini resurrection and the ones raised would die again. None for punishment were raised.

2 Kings 13:21 kjv
21. On And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

So a prophets bones raised one man, but Jesus raised some saints.

Which I had considered this in the past, but not connected the no punishment,

Ok I suppose it will be really be in symbolism if I find the prophecy.

eddif

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus quoted Daniel when he spoke of the resurrection in John 5

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

At the end of the millennium, those not resurrected to life await the second death.

I know of a couple of bad characters resurected during the first resurection.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

He only said that it (the Resurrection) followed and left out "at that time" which indicates it was not necessarily at that time. It follows but not directly. That is my view.

The scriptures Paul wrote in Thessalonians describes the resurrection. There is no mention of a tribulation in the verses preceding that. That fits.

Daniel wrote one sentence after another concerning at that time. He only needed to write at that time once to say the list of things he said would happen at that time. He needed not to say at that time at beginning every sentence like you claim he would.
As for Paul's account of the same event. Paul shouldn't need to talk about how terrible of a time it will be on the day of the Lord. Nearly every prophet in the bible has said just how terrible that day will be. Here are just a few verses about that day when christ raises the dead.
This is the day you claim Paul said nothing about tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 - The Day of the Lord

For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

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1 Thessalonians 5:3 - The Day of the Lord

While people are saying, Peace and security, destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

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Zephaniah 1:14 - The Day of the LORD

The great Day of the LORD is near--near and coming quickly. Listen, the Day of the LORD! Then the cry of the mighty will be bitter.

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Zephaniah 1:15 - The Day of the LORD

That day will be a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness,

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This is the day you say there is no tribulation.
Jesus likened the day of the Lord to the day Noah closed the door and everyone else died.

Matthew 24:37 - Readiness at Any Hour

As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

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Matthew 24:38 - Readiness at Any Hour

For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.

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Matthew 24:39 - Readiness at Any Hour

And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

biblehub.com

Are you ignoring everything written about the day of the Lord so you can say 70 AD is a worse tribulation than the one all the prophets and apostles won't about?

 

[ezrider]

lol it is getting hard to post without your words being manipulated.
eddif (me) does not want anything to do with Eden, other than see the symbolism hidden in Eden.

I am joyful to be in tribulation (now and in the future). The end result will be the return of Jesus. The spiritual gifts were not in Eden (as far as I can see). If this gets turned around just PM me.
I promote:
One new man
New Jerusalem
Quickening Spirit
Holy Spirit Gifts
Office Gifts to the Church
Human body symbolism
The resurrection in the future

Wonder if this list will be twisted. Part of what we risk.

eddif

If I may; the resurrection in the future.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

From Dan 12:1-2 and John 5:28-29, there is the resurrection to life, or the resurrection to damnation. Those that are in Christ and are born of the Spirit, they have entered into the resurrection of Christ. Those who are in Christ but have not been born or the Spirit and continue to follow after the works of the law have entered into the resurrection of damnation, even though they be in Christ, the law still condemns them, Paul calls them the children of wrath, whom we once were.

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. (Rom 14:7-9)


For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

We have all been baptized into the death of Christ, not all have attained to His resurrection of life.

The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

The hour is coming, and now is... The resurrection of Christ from the dead occurred in the past. But the hour is coming is for each generation who hears the voice of the Spirit of Christ. They enter into His resurrection through faith. Those who don't hear his word, but hold to the strength of the law, then they await the judgement of the law and the second death. The future resurrection you seek is after the second death and isn't the resurrection of the Son, but of the Father.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Daniel wrote one sentence after another concerning at that time.

But that one verse follows another does not mean the events happen in close proximity in time. I can pull out prophesies that referred to Jesus birth or life that do not then occur with a short time although they are written directly afterwards.

He only needed to write at that time once to say the list of things he said would happen at that time. He needed not to say at that time at beginning every sentence like you claim he would.

He says “at that time” for both previous sentences, both of them. Left it out for that event, the resurrection.

As for Paul's account of the same event. Paul shouldn't need to talk about how terrible of a time it will be on the day of the Lord.

Yes he would have had to because the 2nd coming is not preceded by terrible times which Jesus directly said. There were no terrible times before the flood and so it shall be for his second coming. Jesus says life will be normal. Cannot get much plainer.

Nearly every prophet in the bible has said just how terrible that day will be. Here are just a few verses about that day when christ raises the dead.
This is the day you claim Paul said nothing about tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 - The Day of the Lord

For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

biblehub.com

1 Thessalonians 5:3 - The Day of the Lord

While people are saying, Peace and security, destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

biblehub.com

The “day of the Lord” is an expression for the Judgement of God against those who slayed his son and the believers. This verse is not right before the passages on the resurrection in Paul’s writing.. They are separated in thought and space.

All of the believers knew of Jesus’ warnings of coming judgement. They were watching for the signs. Their own safety depended upon it.

Zephaniah 1:14 - The Day of the LORD

The great Day of the LORD is near--near and coming quickly. Listen, the Day of the LORD! Then the cry of the mighty will be bitter.

biblehub.com

Zephaniah 1:15 - The Day of the LORD

That day will be a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness,

biblehub.com

Not quite, I said the tribulation or Day of our Lord or him coming in the clouds are expressions for God wrathful and just punishment on a peoples for extreme evil. Notice no resurrection is even mentioned.

This is the day you say there is no tribulation.
Jesus likened the day of the Lord to the day Noah closed the door and everyone else died.

Matthew 24:37 - Readiness at Any Hour

As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

biblehub.com

Matthew 24:38 - Readiness at Any Hour

For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.

biblehub.com

Matthew 24:39 - Readiness at Any Hour

And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

biblehub.com

Yes, no signs either in natural phenomena nor between people. No signs at all. Life going on as normal. That is the described situation before the 2nd coming.

Are you ignoring everything written about the day of the Lord so you can say 70 AD is a worse tribulation than the one all the prophets and apostles won't about?

Now this moves from discussing scriptures to accusing me of ignoring scripture, no longer focusing on the argument. The description of the events in 70 AD are the worst ever described in human history. That is not merely me wishing it to be so. They were so horrible one doesn’t want to hear about more than once.

Ive been accused of proselytizing so please know that I am just explaining my faith giving a reason for the hope that is within me. I love discussing scripture and so this is a pleasure for me. And, I thank you for searching the scriptures with me to see if these things be so.

You are, of course, free to believe as you choose and I would defend that right as I would defend you against unjust accusations. I appreciate you explaining your position to me in such detail and yet also responding to my queries. You’ve done well!

 

[eddif]

Ok
The great and glorious day has salvation and punishment. Not just one or the other but both.

Rod and staff
Hugs and swats
Eternal life plus eternal damnation

Gods ways are not our ways
……..
But back to the mini resurrection:
This is really like Jesus breathing on the disciples and saying receive you the Holy Spirit
Did they receive him in his body breath? No.
They did receive him on the day of Pentecost and the mighty rushing wind and tongues of fire

So the mini resurrection becomes the prophetic prediction encouraging the receiving of the full resurrection / judgement day.
The saints are raised on the mini day. Punishment laid on Jesus associated with mini resurrection

I hope I am not adding to or taking away, but working towards understanding.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ok
The great and glorious day has salvation and punishment. Not just one or the other but both.

Rod and staff
Hugs and swats
Eternal life plus eternal damnation

Gods ways are not our ways

Those are not God's ways in any case except for the Day of Judgement, I suppose although by then those who are his are already in bliss as it were. They are not really at the same time either. The wrath of God has been poured out on earth on those who crucified his son as a group. That is over. Only individual judgement awaits them now. Like Sodom and G., wrath in judgment against an evil society and the one righteous family or man, lot, was physically dragged away so as to miss it. No rewards but an avoidance of catastrophic. Same with Noah. No rewards for the righteous but an escape. Same for the destruction of Jerusalem, no rewards for the christians but an escape from judgment. The pattern is not simultaneous events.

……..
But back to the mini resurrection:
This is really like Jesus breathing on the disciples and saying receive you the Holy Spirit
Did they receive him in his body breath? No.
They did receive him on the day of Pentecost and the mighty rushing wind and tongues of fire

So the mini resurrection becomes the prophetic prediction encouraging the receiving of the full resurrection / judgement day.
The saints are raised on the mini day. Punishment laid on Jesus associated with mini resurrection

I hope I am not adding to or taking away, but working towards understanding.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Pretty good analogy, a kind of promise of what is to come. No one in the Bible said this of the matter and where instead silent, but it is not bad as far as ideas go. I like it.

 

[eddif]

Those are not God's ways in any case except for the Day of Judgement, I suppose although by then those who are his are already in bliss as it were. They are not really at the same time either. The wrath of God has been poured out on earth on those who crucified his son as a group. That is over. Only individual judgement awaits them now. Like Sodom and G., wrath in judgment against an evil society and the one righteous family or man, lot, was physically dragged away so as to miss it. No rewards but an avoidance of catastrophic. Same with Noah. No rewards for the righteous but an escape. Same for the destruction of Jerusalem, no rewards for the christians but an escape from judgment. The pattern is not simultaneous events.

I am talking about the day which has both
Matthew 25:33 kjv
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

I will let you look up the whole text.
At a point in The event:
You are correct in that the good guys go first and then the bad guys, but for a time both are set before Jesus.

What am I stressing? Both things happen on The Day of the Lord.
Declaration of eternal life
Declaration of eternal damnation

Yes the good happens first (as you pointed out).
Then Jesus turns to the left…..

eddif

 

[eddif]

Pretty good analogy, a kind of promise of what is to come. No one in the Bible said this of the matter and where instead silent, but it is not bad as far as ideas go. I like it.

So how does it go?
If Dorothy Mae comes up with it, it is divine revelation.
If eddif suggests something, it is an idea. LOL Such is the life of lower class rednecks. LOL

Then everyone else will say to us:
You two listen. We have known that for years. Nothing new under the sun.

How many posts did the idea take? 12? More probably I have tried this before. God gets the glory. I can not walk and chew gum at the same time. Symbolism and Theology are tough rows to hoe. Reckon Adam learned that?

eddif
.

 

[Edward]

It is difficult to talk with you as you keep asking me if I believe things I never even hinted at.

Yes you did. You said there are rules in place.

 

[eddif]

Daniel wrote AT THAT TIME.
Everyone found written would be deliverd, and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.
Daniel included that verse at that time.

All he wrote was AT THAT TIME. He didn't write many who sleep in the dust would awake thousands of years after that time.
At that time. Your people would be deliverd, everyone found written.

You believe all of Daniels people who's names are written were deliverd in 70 AD?

I noticed some care in your statements. Where is the writing of those who were delivered vs those who shall be delivered. Not really a trick question. One IMHO is more physical than the other.

eddif

 

[Shilohsfoal]

But that one verse follows another does not mean the events happen in close proximity in time. I can pull out prophesies that referred to Jesus birth or life that do not then occur with a short time although they are written directly afterwards.

He says “at that time” for both previous sentences, both of them. Left it out for that event, the resurrection.

Yes he would have had to because the 2nd coming is not preceded by terrible times which Jesus directly said. There were no terrible times before the flood and so it shall be for his second coming. Jesus says life will be normal. Cannot get much plainer.

The “day of the Lord” is an expression for the Judgement of God against those who slayed his son and the believers. This verse is not right before the passages on the resurrection in Paul’s writing.. They are separated in thought and space.

All of the believers knew of Jesus’ warnings of coming judgement. They were watching for the signs. Their own safety depended upon it.

Not quite, I said the tribulation or Day of our Lord or him coming in the clouds are expressions for God wrathful and just punishment on a peoples for extreme evil. Notice no resurrection is even mentioned.

Yes, no signs either in natural phenomena nor between people. No signs at all. Life going on as normal. That is the described situation before the 2nd coming.

Now this moves from discussing scriptures to accusing me of ignoring scripture, no longer focusing on the argument. The description of the events in 70 AD are the worst ever described in human history. That is not merely me wishing it to be so. They were so horrible one doesn’t want to hear about more than once.

Ive been accused of proselytizing so please know that I am just explaining my faith giving a reason for the hope that is within me. I love discussing scripture and so this is a pleasure for me. And, I thank you for searching the scriptures with me to see if these things be so.

You are, of course, free to believe as you choose and I would defend that right as I would defend you against unjust accusations. I appreciate you explaining your position to me in such detail and yet also responding to my queries. You’ve done well!

So now you can't even recognize the day of the Lord is the day the lord returns. You have no clue what the day of the Lord will be like because you don't even believe the lord will return on the day of the Lord and save anyone.

That's what happens when you start placing thousand if not tens of thousands of years between two sentences that the writer had placed together. You get to where you understand nothing.
Well I'm done. There is just no reaching you at all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So now you can't even recognize the day of the Lord is the day the lord returns. You have no clue what the day of the Lord will be like because you don't even believe the lord will return on the day of the Lord and save anyone.

But that is what the scripture uses for that term. Notice the angels who spoke of the 2nd coming did not use that terminology. They said he will return as he left. They did not refer to the day of the Lord him coming in the clouds as those expressions can meant something else. Now I do see that it could be used as both his coming or the coming judgement. "Coming in the clouds" is definite judgement but "day of our Lord" also might mean a few different things.

That's what happens when you start placing thousand if not tens of thousands of years between two sentences that the writer had placed together. You get to where you understand nothing.
Well I'm done. There is just no reaching you at all.

Ok, we can quit. I actually enjoy discussion scripture and I do not find your argument compelling. I have searched the scriptures on these matters and do not see that your position is represented. That is also my responsibility and right.

I do find it interesting that so many cannot discuss a point to see how the other thinks. There is only converting them to your position, and when that fails, hurl personal insults. That one can come to understand other positions is quite rare. That is my goal. I want to understand how others think. I get the impression that most want to win.

All the best to you...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes you did. You said there are rules in place.

Well, Moses observed those rules and in fact, wrote them down. The other poster does not seem to know much about Israel as they lived in the wilderness such as they had a tabernacle where worship took place. Just because their surroundings were wilderness does not mean sacrifice and worship meetings took place anywhere. He did not seem to know that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So how does it go?
If Dorothy Mae comes up with it, it is divine revelation.
If eddif suggests something, it is an idea. LOL Such is the life of lower class rednecks. LOL

When did I ever say anything I wrote was divine revelation. That is what another poster says describing her thinking as what she got personally from God. I cannot recall ever saying that. When did I?

Then everyone else will say to us:
You two listen. We have known that for years. Nothing new under the sun.

How many posts did the idea take? 12? More probably I have tried this before. God gets the glory. I can not walk and chew gum at the same time. Symbolism and Theology are tough rows to hoe. Reckon Adam learned that?

eddif
.

Uh? You lost me.

But come to think of it, that is an expression that you often use. You seem to say from time to time that you get particular personal revelation from God. Interesting that you accuse me of what you actually do, I have noticed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am talking about the day which has both
Matthew 25:33 kjv
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

That is not what Jesus used to describe that day, "“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne."

He says "the Son of man comes in his glory." He did not say "the day of our Lord" or "coming in the clouds" as those terms mean something else entirely. I mean, those are the exact words of Jesus.

I will let you look up the whole text.
At a point in The event:
You are correct in that the good guys go first and then the bad guys, but for a time both are set before Jesus.

What am I stressing? Both things happen on The Day of the Lord.
Declaration of eternal life
Declaration of eternal damnation

Yes the good happens first (as you pointed out).
Then Jesus turns to the left…..

eddif

Sorry, it is when the Son of Man returns in his glory, not "the day of the Lord" which is judgement and elimination of a nation on earth as he did in Sodom.

 

[Edward]

Well, Moses observed those rules and in fact, wrote them down. The other poster does not seem to know much about Israel as they lived in the wilderness such as they had a tabernacle where worship took place. Just because their surroundings were wilderness does not mean sacrifice and worship meetings took place anywhere. He did not seem to know that.

The OT sure reads like many of them would set up altars almost anywhere. Maybe the Pharisees which ran the temple liked it or not people still did it.
After Jesus institued the new covenant, we now worship Him in Spirit and in truth...in the tabernacle of our hearts.

That's where the real Holy of Holies is, inside of us. We are in Christ, and Christ is in us. It's not at th edome of the rock or the dome of spirits. Maybe used to be.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The OT sure reads like many of them would set up altars almost anywhere.

Please provide verses where this is practiced and approved of by God.

Maybe the Pharisees which ran the temple liked it or not people still did it.

There were no Pharisees in Moses’ day.

After Jesus institued the new covenant, we now worship Him in Spirit and in truth...in the tabernacle of our hearts.

That's where the real Holy of Holies is, inside of us. We are in Christ, and Christ is in us. It's not at th edome of the rock or the dome of spirits. Maybe used to be.

Ok, I agree.

 

[Oseas]

So now you can't even recognize the day of the Lord is the day the lord returns. You have no clue what the day of the Lord will be like because you don't even believe the lord will return on the day of the Lord and save anyone.

That's what happens when you start placing thousand if not tens of thousands of years between two sentences that the writer had placed together. You get to where you understand nothing.
Well I'm done. There is just no reaching you at all.

Daniel 12:v.12 -
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

[Oseas]

But that is what the scripture uses for that term. Notice the angels who spoke of the 2nd coming did not use that terminology. They said he will return as he left. They did not refer to the day of the Lord him coming in the clouds as those expressions can meant something else. Now I do see that it could be used as both his coming or the coming judgement. "Coming in the clouds" is definite judgement but "day of our Lord" also might mean a few different things.

Ok, we can quit. I actually enjoy discussion scripture and I do not find your argument compelling. I have searched the scriptures on these matters and do not see that your position is represented. That is also my responsibility and right.

I do find it interesting that so many cannot discuss a point to see how the other thinks. There is only converting them to your position, and when that fails, hurl personal insults. That one can come to understand other positions is quite rare. That is my goal. I want to understand how others think. I get the impression that most want to win.

All the best to you...

There is a Chronology of GOD's events, and will culminate in this time of Apocalypse, i.e. the very known END of the times.
GOD's Chronology of events and the GOD's control along the times regardings their fulfillment, obey a period of seven days of 1000 years, and the Apostle Peter comment in his universal epistle-2Peter 3:v.8, saying: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one Day is with the Lord (GOD's Day) as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day".

Listing the main wonderful and glorious events of GOD's Plan afther the fall of Adam, as follows:

For example, the flood occurred around 1656 years after Adam, and around 427 years later, I meant after the flood, GOD's manifested Himself to Abrãm-Genesis 17:v.1, this occurred around 2.080 years after Adam. The next event was the meeting with Moses , according GOD's plan since the beginning He intended to establish the first Covenant. After this event several others occurred, but the main of them was the marvelous or rather indescribable birth of JESUS, His coming here on earth to make great works, such is the glorious coming of JESUS around 4000 years after Adam to announce the Kingdom of GOD that will be established in this current seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day - the LORD's DAY. Amen.

Jewish Calendar - How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar?

The Jewish calendar is the type of calendar that the Jewish people use for counting time and commemorating birthdays, festivities, weddings, deaths, religious celebrations and other solemnities. According to the Hebrews, the years are counted from what they believe to be the creation of Adam...

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